Apocalypse

[TheManWithoutFear]

I know this was argued elsewhere but I wanted to see how it really stood with most people... the question is as Nurhachi would put it are you a believer or not?
Do you think Apocalypse is just a figment of Sinister's imagination??

[mutantfreak]

I don't really like Apocalypse and I would be fine with him not being real.

[TheManWithoutFear]

to each his own... but I don't see how many other major villains the X-Men have that are actually worth putting into the ultimate universe...

[mutantfreak]

This is my list of X-men villains that I would like to see before Apoc: Shadow King, Mystique, Omega Red, The Breed, Sauron, Lady Lethal, Black Tom Cassidy, Legion and Ciber. I know that not all of them can be considered major villains.

I really don't like like Apocalipse.

[TheManWithoutFear]

I'd agree with Shadow King...and Mystique but I'd want to see her as part of the brotherhood or something... the others I'm not familiar with save Sauron

and I wanna see Omega Red

[TheManWithoutFear]

Legion was done already wasn't he?

[mutantfreak]

Well here it goes:

Omega Red is a Soviet Union super soldier. He has this tentacles that came out of his hands and he uses them to suck life out of people. He also unleashes some kind of death-pheromones in the air that kill who ever breathe them.

The Breed is a race of aliens that can sting you and make you one of them. They have some kind of collective mind and are always trying to make valuable additions to their group.

Lady Lethal is Lady Death Strike. She has a cyborg that has adamantium finger. Her name is Yuriko and she has a history with Wolverine. Her dad was a scientist connected with the creation of adamantium and she thinks that Wolverine is responsible for his death.

Black Tom Cassidy was partner of Juggernaut. He is the cousin of Banshee and Syren and his power is to discharge blasts of force from his wooden cub. He powers developed and he became a living moving tree.

Legions is Xavier’s son and he has telepathics, telekinetics and pyrokinetics abilities. He has three different personalities and which one controls a different powers. He is sad to bee one of the most powerful mutants on earth.

Cyber was once Wolverines mentor and has a adamantium laced skin and has adamantium claws. He can detect brain patens and psionically tracks his targets. He broke Wolvie claws with his bare hands. Thinking about it I think I would take him of my list...

I know that is awfully summed up but that’s kind of it. For details try searching in google.

[mutantfreak]

Legion was done already wasn't he?

No. In the ultimate universe Xavier son was Proteus. In 616 he was only son of Moira with some senator or something.

[Caduceus]

I've voted for No but i'm going to add Not yet to that. He isn't real now. But he probably will be made real later

[TheManWithoutFear]

Well here it goes:

Omega Red is a Soviet Union super soldier. He has this tentacles that came out of his hands and he uses them to suck life out of people. He also unleashes some kind of death-pheromones in the air that kill who ever breathe them.

The Breed is a race of aliens that can sting you and make you one of them. They have some kind of collective mind and are always trying to make valuable additions to their group.

Lady Lethal is Lady Death Strike. She has a cyborg that has adamantium finger. Her name is Yuriko and she has a history with Wolverine. Her dad was a scientist connected with the creation of adamantium and she thinks that Wolverine is responsible for his death.

Black Tom Cassidy was partner of Juggernaut. He is the cousin of Banshee and Syren and his power is to discharge blasts of force from his wooden cub. He powers developed and he became a living moving tree.

Legions is Xavier’s son and he has telepathics, telekinetics and pyrokinetics abilities. He has three different personalities and which one controls a different powers. He is sad to bee one of the most powerful mutants on earth.

Cyber was once Wolverines mentor and has a adamantium laced skin and has adamantium claws. He can detect brain patens and psionically tracks his targets. He broke Wolvie claws with his bare hands. Thinking about it I think I would take him of my list...

I know that is awfully summed up but that’s kind of it. For details try searching in google.

all right I knew who Omega Red, Lady Deathstrike (I'm even familiar with her 616 version), and The breed I saw a picture of at MarvelDirectory.com they look very familiar to me like I read something on them before ...

[TheManWithoutFear]

No. In the ultimate universe Xavier son was Proteus. In 616 he was only son of Moira with some senator or something.

well is there a seperate character named Proteus in 616 or couldn't this be the Ultimized version of Legion...

[Thiraknut]

Wow, this poll is closer than the Presidential election. Apocalypse real = right, Apocalypse imaginary = left? :D

[TheManWithoutFear]

Who the hell are you calling a republican!? :furious:

[longshotjimlee]

As a Brit, the Repubs and and the Demos seem exactly the same - buying votes - so lets not discuss politics on this site.

Oh btw, Jesus never existed.

[TheManWithoutFear]

As an American :D
I'm inclined to tell you that there is no similarity to a republican and a democrat

[E]

As an American :D
I'm inclined to tell you that there is no similarity to a republican and a democrat

I used to think the same thing.

Now, back on topic. :D

[Ice]

Damn you guys work fast.

Well, I'm one of the "yes" people. I mean, if he's just a figment of Sinister's imagination, then that will just plain out suck.

[Dr.Strangefate]

Well here it goes:

Omega Red is a Soviet Union super soldier. He has this tentacles that came out of his hands and he uses them to suck life out of people. He also unleashes some kind of death-pheromones in the air that kill who ever breathe them.

The Breed is a race of aliens that can sting you and make you one of them. They have some kind of collective mind and are always trying to make valuable additions to their group.

Lady Lethal is Lady Death Strike. She has a cyborg that has adamantium finger. Her name is Yuriko and she has a history with Wolverine. Her dad was a scientist connected with the creation of adamantium and she thinks that Wolverine is responsible for his death.

Black Tom Cassidy was partner of Juggernaut. He is the cousin of Banshee and Syren and his power is to discharge blasts of force from his wooden cub. He powers developed and he became a living moving tree.

Legions is Xavier’s son and he has telepathics, telekinetics and pyrokinetics abilities. He has three different personalities and which one controls a different powers. He is sad to bee one of the most powerful mutants on earth.

Cyber was once Wolverines mentor and has a adamantium laced skin and has adamantium claws. He can detect brain patens and psionically tracks his targets. He broke Wolvie claws with his bare hands. Thinking about it I think I would take him of my list...

I know that is awfully summed up but that’s kind of it. For details try searching in google.

Its the Brood, btw, not the Breed.... And personally I think they would fit better in The Ultimates or UFF... They should be used though, i liked the idea of a more Animalistic Alien running off of instinct rather than most of the races of hyper intelligent aliens.

I -doubt- we'll ever see Legion, it seems that in the UU Xavier hooked up with Moira early in his life, and when he left her to start his school, he got with Emma Frost. I doubt he had a relationship close enough to have a kid before hand, and i doubt even more that he's had once since Emma.

I do want to see Black Tom and Banshee and the whole family feud. That could be well done

Deathstrike and Cyber.... not this soon, unless Wolvie gets a mini-series. I dont think they work well as Supervillians for the team, more villains for Logan

And as for Omega Red, I'd like to see him in the next two Ultimate Nightmares, but i doubt that'll happen... Maybe He'll be Chinese and part of their Super Soldier program?

[Thiraknut]

Who the hell are you calling a republican!? :furious:

Hmm....since when did I say "republican" and "democrat"? I believe I said "right" and "left". And there was also a question mark at the end of that, so I wasn't making a definite statement about anything, and I sure wasn't pinning a label on someone. It was just an off-hand remark and I had no intention of insulting anyone. If I did, sorry.

*takes his ball dejectedly and goes home*

[TheManWithoutFear]

I was joking... no need to apologize





....I never do :twisted:

[Friday]

Well, honestly, it's still undefined. In the little extras that are in the UXM V9 TPB Vaughn says that he purposly left it in the air for now, so any talk on the subject is pure speculation.

I want him to be real, but as something to build to. Say issue 100, double sized, with a series of well laid plotlines to flesh everything out. Of course this would probably require a set writter for the next 50 or so issues. I wouldn't doubt that Vaughn could handle it, I mean he's writting what is essentialy a 60 issue limited series over at Vertigo, but with singers run on the forfront I doubt that we'll get any of that.

[Ice]

I know this is off-topic, but I just have to say this:

Syren isn't the cousin of Black Tom and Banshee. Syren is Banshee's daughter.


Back on topic:

I think too that having Apocalypse at issue 100. I thought that was when he'll first appear. But Singer and crew is only going to be on for 12 issues, so maybe Vaughun can return as the official writer afterwards.

[killit]

I don't know anybody said this but maybe Sinister is useing mindpowers to talk to Apocalypse and Apocalypse is haveing Sinister doing all the little stuff while Apocalypse sit in the back ground.

[E]

I don't know anybody said this but maybe Sinister is useing mindpowers to talk to Apocalypse and Apocalypse is haveing Sinister doing all the little stuff while Apocalypse sit in the back ground.

Very true, and very possible.

Welcome. :D

[Ice]

Yes, welcome new fellow board member! :P

And you do have a point. I wonder if Sinister will have the same "attitude" towards Apocalypse here in the UU as he did in the 616.

[longshotjimlee]

Yes, welcome new fellow board member! :P

And you do have a point. I wonder if Sinister will have the same "attitude" towards Apocalypse here in the UU as he did in the 616.


I thought "attitude" was the name of the magazine I saw Colossus reading.

[Ice]

Um, I don't know why he would read that, but alright.

But what I meant was, how he Sinister would be like towards Apocalypse. In 616, he secretly acted as a follower of Apocalypse. Behind his back, Siniseter would take mutants, and do experiments on them, tying to create the "Perfect Mutant" to kill Apocolypse.

Now, I know from what we read there was a different agenda, but in the future, this might happen.

[TheManWithoutFear]

yes Ice I think that's exactly what will happen... Sinister will come back as his own man with a severe obsession (love/hate) with Apoc. He will keep his powers that Apoc has bestowed upon him and he will even find a way to complete the transformation himself... the only thing I'm trying to think of is how he will survive the "choke yourself" at the end of the tempest arc

[Ice]

Well, Apocalypse could have told him to stop, saying that he'll find a use for him in the future, but still have let him in the Triskelion.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Here's an interesting thought...

what if they pulled a Apoc views Sinister as one of his creations and Apoc would never destroy something he created kinda deal...

[Nurhachi]

Do you think Apocalypse will have his four horseman in the ultimate universe?

Who do you think they woould be?

sinister could be one. who else? angel? gambit? juggernaut? XT?

[TheManWithoutFear]

I def think horsemen will appear my hopes are that they're Archangel, dark beast, rogue and some other mutant I haven't though about yet :twisted:

[Ice]

Well, what do you guys think about other X-Mens being horseman like in X-Men: Evolution?

[TheManWithoutFear]

I didn't watch that garbage who ended up being the horsemen there?

[Ice]

THAT WASN'T GARBAGE!! :furious:

The horsemen were:

Xavier
Storm
Mystique
and I think (Magneto).

[TheManWithoutFear]

my wee little cousins watched that garbage and yes it was.... they said colossus worked for him too....

and I wouldn't buy it at all if xavier fell for it....

[Ice]

Ugh...you know nothing. He just didn't "fall for it". Why not watch it and find out.

[TheManWithoutFear]

cos the garbage was cancelled already wasn't it


I don't like those horsemen I think Marrow should make her appearance and then after the new apoc arc they can do the Morlock arc

[E]

THAT WASN'T GARBAGE!! :furious:

The horsemen were:

Xavier
Storm
Mystique
and I think (Magneto).

I dunno, Ice...that sounds pretty garbagey to me....sorry.

[Ice]

I meant the show wasn't garbage.

[Nurhachi]

X-Men evolution was pretty cool. I enjoyed it, especially the first few episodes.

I think it would be cool to see an ultimate mutant massacre. The story with the marauders killing the morlocks. That would be cool.

[odie1kenobi75]

I think it would be cool to see an ultimate mutant massacre. The story with the marauders killing the morlocks. That would be cool.

I never really cared too much for the Marauders except for Sabretooth and Sinister. But, in response to the question, I believe Apocalypse is the read deal. Furthermore, I think the Morlocks could be introduced into the Ultimate Universe as the undesired results of Apocalypse's numerous experiments in the creation of his perfect generals, the Four Horsemen. Some of the more well known members (Callisto, Caliban, Artie, Leech) could be the survivors of Apocalypse's experiments who escape from his stronghold and hide from him in the tunnels of NYC.

[TheManWithoutFear]

ooo damn odie that's niiiiice

[Goodwill]

Well, first of all, I'd like to back Ice and say that Evolution was a good animated cartoon. Yes, it was padded and fluffed for the little kids, but there was a story that probably went over their heads. They introduced a lot of X-Men characters and they proved true to their actual counterparts in the comics. The plots may have been the shows own but to see what they did was very refreshing, especially with Apocolypse. If they had continued the show it would have been stupid because the way they ended it was perfect. They didn't cancel it, XTF, they ended it with the last few episodes, leaving the story open ended, which I thought was a good way to leave it.

Second of all the Ultimate Mutant Massacre already took place. Sinister slaughtering the four mutants was the Daily Bugle's idea of a massacre. Although it would be cool to see the Ultimate interpretation of the Maruaders, I don't think we'll get a chance anytime soon unless they elaborate more on Sinister and a possible following... He seemed to preach about evolution, which could be something that could influence mutants into backing him. I think that would be the most interesting take on his character and theirs.

Lastly, the four Horseman were speculated to be the four that Sinister actually killed. That would be (well, thought to be, anyway) Marrow, Synch, Maggot, and Siren. Who knows, though? That's what the fans came up with, not Vaughan.

Anyway, I said "no" because I don't think Vaughan intends to take Apocolypse any further.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Lastly, the four Horseman were speculated to be the four that Sinister actually killed. That would be (well, thought to be, anyway) Marrow, Synch, Maggot, and Siren. Who knows, though? That's what the fans came up with, not Vaughan.

where did it say that hey were the other three... I know Marrow was the name of the girl but what of the others?

[Ice]

They weren't named. Just a picture of them was shown.

Don't you read UXM?

[TheManWithoutFear]

i'm not familiar with synch or siren... maggot I sorta know is that supposed to be what he looks like??

[Ice]

Well, I forgot where he's from, but I do that his intestine became some slug type things, that came out of his body.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Am I reading the same comic? I see no slugs coming out of him...

I think the two slugs eat things to give him energy...

[Goodwill]

Well, Synch has similar powers to Rogue... He creates this "bubble" and sends it out and he can use whatever powers are in this "bubble" for a limited amount of time. The "bubble" often resembles the aurora borealis (sp?). He's the black gentleman in the basketball jersey.

Siren is supposedly in the tattered hood. She is the daughter of Banshee and she has the same power as her father; to scream at the top of lungs... She was in the X-2 movie, don't you remember?

Maggot, although the two worm intestines weren't apparent in the panel, is the one character that most resembles the one in the issue. The 616 Maggot was black for a time but turned blue and had a white mo-hawk, similar to the one you saw.

Marrow was there, too, and she's a little more obvious, wouldn't you say?

[Caduceus]

I wouldn't say that they would be the Horsemen. The Horsemen have always been relatively powerful mutants/enhanced humans who either had some motivation to support Poccy or had been brainwashed into supporting him. Having four homeless, fairly medium powered mutants (whose only appearances were their deaths) be the Horsemen would be a bit of a disappointment.

[Goodwill]

Well, people said this because they were angry that Marrow had been killed off... By saying that she would be a Horsemen, that would mean she'd come back. That's all that rumor meant, really... Come to think of it, I think I started it. o_O

[longshotjimlee]

A dead person coming back? surely not!

[TheManWithoutFear]

I wouldn't say that they would be the Horsemen. The Horsemen have always been relatively powerful mutants/enhanced humans who either had some motivation to support Poccy or had been brainwashed into supporting him. Having four homeless, fairly medium powered mutants (whose only appearances were their deaths) be the Horsemen would be a bit of a disappointment.

I don't think it would be a disappointment at all... I think Poc should take mutants of all different backgrounds for this one...

[longshotjimlee]

How about Spidey, Cap, Daredevil and Wolverine as the four horsemen?

[TheManWithoutFear]

ok I'm tempted in saying that'd be insanely sick but.... it's not gonna happen and I would feel the story were cheapened... plus doesn't Apoc use mutants because he feels mutants are superior...

[longshotjimlee]

plus doesn't Apoc use mutants because he feels mutants are superior...


That's why I put down characters who are mutants.

[TheManWithoutFear]

no not your EarthX crap here Longshot :evil:

[longshotjimlee]

nope...


just common sense :wink:

[TheManWithoutFear]

no longshot

[longshotjimlee]

yes Matt

[TheManWithoutFear]

hahaha :twisted:

[longshotjimlee]

that's "door" matt

[TheManWithoutFear]

what?

[Ice]

Spider-Man, Cap, and DD ARE NOT mutants. So they can't be used. And don't come saying that they are, because they're not. And you know it. You just don't want to admit it.

[E]

Spider-Man, Cap, and DD ARE NOT mutants. So they can't be used. And don't come saying that they are, because they're not. And you know it. You just don't want to admit it.

Maybe its YOU that doesn't want to admit... :P

[Ice]

Spider-Man, Cap, and DD weren't born with their powers. So I have nothing that I don't have to admit. :wink:

[E]

Spider-Man, Cap, and DD weren't born with their powers. So I have nothing that I don't have to admit. :wink:

I'll let LSJL take it from here. :D

[Ice]

And this is where the craziness start! :P

[TheManWithoutFear]

Usually I agree with Doc Strangefate... and I do agree that the kid Wolverine was supposed to kill would've made an awesome famine but I think if he didn't die that would take away from that scene greatly... that was one of my favorite and most powerful scenes I've ever read in a comic....

I think everyone in this thread should throw there two cents in and name four mutants they think should be the new horsemen

I already said...
Rogue (making Gambit seek the X-Men's help and Revealing his past with Sinister)
Dark Beast (Bringing him back to life so everyone will be happy....well me and Longshot)
Angel/Archangel (the classic transformation that I'm waiting for)

and I'm gonna add...
Marrow (If Beast will come back from the dead than bring Marrow back too.... and then introduce the Ultimate Morlocks)

[mutantfreak]

Ultimate Marrow? :sick:
But I would like to see the Morlocks. Ultimate Marrow is dead and we should let her rest in peace. She is now just a horned head up Sinister's fireplace.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Just thought it would be a nice way of bringing the two dead characters back.... without making it seem too awful... besides it's like killing two birds with one stone....

[Ice]

I wouldn't call them those characters what you called them XT. They weren't officially named, so they can just be anyone, even though they look like who we think they do.


But that's just me. :-|

[TheManWithoutFear]

well just in case it is Marrow...

[Caduceus]

Its interesting because Marrow and Synch particularly have always had a lot of potential to their powers that wasn't really well developed. Maggott is pretty limited and Siryn is alright but not really that much better. Synch and Marrow however had a lot that could be done to their powers that wasn't ever and some writer might in the distant future, decide to explore that and since they weren't named, they could quite easily be brought back.

On a side note, 616 Marrow broke of from the Weapon X program not to long before Ultimate "Marrow" appeared and 616 Marrow got the forhead bone growths back which had never been part of her powers before. so the artist at the time probably just looked at what Marrow currently looked like and changed it a little.

[cmdrjanjalani]

Spider-Man, Cap, and DD ARE NOT mutants. So they can't be used. And don't come saying that they are, because they're not. And you know it. You just don't want to admit it.

There's still a possibility. In Ultimate Six, Doc Ock has a theory that the Oz compound or whatever super-soldier serum may not really be the direct cause of their powers, but just a catalyst that ignited some very small or weak genetic mutations. These serums may not actually be the main origins, but some sort of "on" switch for dormant, lesser mutants. Who knows?

Also, I don't believe that Legion would come out. Ultimate Proteus' real name is David McTaggart. 616 Proteus' real name is Joseph while Legion is David. Also I don't think Xavier has a much darker past aside from Proteus in terms of family. What the UU is trying to do is take out a lot of the hokey, convoluted pasts of several characters, to make it more realistic. Cyclops does not have a space-faring pirate father, Reed Richards doesn't have a dimension-hopping dad and Rogue actually knows her past and has a real name that has only been partially revealed.

[Ice]

I was talking about in 616....

[Caduceus]

DD's origin wasn't revealed in that Team-up issue was it??

So he might be a mutant in UU (although personally i doubt it)

[TheManWithoutFear]

DD's origin wasn't revealed in that Team-up issue was it??

So he might be a mutant in UU (although personally i doubt it)

Daredevil is not mutant... :evil:

[Caduceus]

As far as we know, DD could be anything. Can we not turn this into another of those issues we won't let die? Please?

[Ice]

Yeah...especially since this thread is about Apocalypse and not DD!

[TheManWithoutFear]

#1 I started this Apoc Thread
#2 I didn't bring DD into this
#3 I just want to make sure everyone's square on the fact that DD is not a mutant...

[Ice]

#4 Let's just keep talking about DD somewhere else.

Joking...No really let's do.

[TheManWithoutFear]

why doesn't anyone else name four they want as the horsemen?

[Caduceus]

OK, i'l give it a go

Would you prefer Poccy as a mutant "dating back to the dawn of humanity" or just as a modern mutant

[Ice]

I like better as back to the "dawn of humanity", with him being the first mutant in history.

[TheManWithoutFear]

I'm with Ice

[E]

Me too. :D

[Ice]

See, I think it adds better to his character.

[Synch]

i don't know if this has been said or noticed but Sinister was kinda crazy like schizo. but here is a theory maybe Sinister is Apocolypse. Everyone talking about Legion and everything made me think about it but maybe Sinister is Apocolypse but he still hasn't got a handle. Or he's possessed by Apocolypse and maybe they did a thing where Apocolypse is something similar to the Shadow King? That's just me throwing some theories out. You guys can tell me how they taste. It's not too crazy... These are comic books.

By the way why do you keep callin' it 616?

[Synch]

Omega Red & Wolverine are two definites i would like to see. after that i think some new blood should get in there like maybe Multiple Man and Doc Strange or some kind of Ultimate Bishop and a new character.

oh yea i would love to see Bishop and Synch get ultimate.

HOLLA.

[TheManWithoutFear]

OK ... he said Holla....



anyway I hope Sinister and Apoc aren't the same person...

[E]

By the way why do you keep callin' it 616?

Because it's easier and faster than typing "mainstream Marvel Universe." :wink:

Welcome!

[Ice]

And a writer named 'Alan Moore' named it that. :wink:

[Goodwill]

OK ... he said Holla....



anyway I hope Sinister and Apoc aren't the same person...


So, when you say you have stuff other than small little things, I hope you didn't mean you repeat yourself just to justify a post. That's just as bad as spamming and it annoys the posters on her to continue a conversation for 12 odd pages (Juggs thread).

[TheManWithoutFear]

yea dragon that makes no sense I simply disagreed with his idea about them being the same person... that idea wasn't brought up in the thread previously so I never responded to it before that post... and agreeing and disagreeing with a thread is about as safe from being called junk posting than your next ultimate survivor question coming up anytime soon...
but if you want to talk about junk posting keep yelling at me your count should be going up with those :twisted: until then you can stop pissin' yourself worryin' about whose gonna pass you out....

[Goodwill]

Go ahead, pass me out man, I'm just tired of coming each day, seeing that you've posted and, when I've gotten into the conversations there's nothing for me to say because you've either mentioned DD (Which KILLS a conversation off the bat) or you're opening up old wounds just so that you can get under peoples skin. Well, you've gotten under mine and I'm asking you to please stop, seriously.

[TheManWithoutFear]

hahahahahahahahahaha :twisted:

Does anyone else feel this way... I know i've gone overboard with DD at times... I'll admit to that but DD hasn't come up in about a week?? (maybe I don't keep track of the days) and where did I open old wounds?? who else feels this way...

[E]

hahahahahahahahahaha :twisted:

Does anyone else feel this way... I know i've gone overboard with DD at times... I'll admit to that but DD hasn't come up in about a week?? (maybe I don't keep track of the days) and where did I open old wounds?? who else feels this way...

Everyone - knock it off and get back on topic.

[TheManWithoutFear]

oh that's crap... I wasn't the one who went off topic :evil:

[Goodwill]

He never said that you were the one to...

Anyway, Sinister should be his own villain in my opinion. This isn't in response to any above post, although it probably could fit in with what you all are trying to say. What I thought when Apocolypse was at least mentioned was that Sinister will not be able to be his own villain... He'd be a lackey and a servant to Lord Apocolypse, which I didn't like. So, when the dummy showed up with a costume similar to that of Apocolypse's, I danced around, seeing that there was going to be more to Sinister... With Apocolypse being fake, I can totally see Sinister gaining momentum as a villain.

[TheManWithoutFear]

we didn't say he was always gonna be a lackey somewhere on this thread is a discussion about him breaking away from Apocalypse and becoming his own villain...

[odie1kenobi75]

How about Spidey, Cap, Daredevil and Wolverine as the four horsemen?

Hey, LSJL, I kinda agree with you on this idea, but would prefer to see them as clones of the originals manipuated by Apocalypse for his own personal gain. As we all know (or should know), Mr. Sinister was real big on obtaining tissue samples from Cyclops and Jean Grey to create the perfect mutant weapon. How about in the Ultimate Universe, Apocalypse assumes a similar role and instead obtains the genetic makeup of the world's greatest fighters, which all four of the previously mentioned fall under, as the genetic blueprints for his Four Horsemen? Let me know what you think.

[TheManWithoutFear]

That would be pretty cool... it's a real good idea... it'd be a nice way to tie in all of the other ultimate titles too...

[odie1kenobi75]

That would be pretty cool... it's a real good idea... it'd be a nice way to tie in all of the other ultimate titles too...

THANKS! I was afraid I might open some old wounds from the die-hard Spidey fans after the whole "Maximum Cloneage" fiasco that took place a few years back!

[TheManWithoutFear]

well I don't see how it would hurt... it doesn't have to turn into a clone fiasco as long as these guys die out as soon as Apoc is defeated or sooner... I'm not saying I would rather this though I'd rather straight up mutants that need to be introduced into the ultimate universe or mutants that would expand relationships or character development with the X-Men... but that is a real good way of developing Longshot's idea (though I'm sure he was joking at the time) if that's what went down I'd def. buy it...

[Ice]

Well, would you guys want it to be just like in 616? Where he's only pretending to follow Apocalypse, but is really in secret planning his demise by trying to create the "PERFECT" mutant?

[TheManWithoutFear]

I would

[odie1kenobi75]

well I don't see how it would hurt... it doesn't have to turn into a clone fiasco as long as these guys die out as soon as Apoc is defeated or sooner...

Well, that was kinda what I was getting at when I posted my response. I didn't expect said cloned characters to continue beyond that particular story arc. Good grief, I'm only trying to introduce possible senarios based on previous comments by others!

[TheManWithoutFear]

Good grief, I'm only trying to introduce possible senarios based on previous comments by others!

Odie I wasn't attacking you... relax
I was just building on what you were saying...

[odie1kenobi75]

O.K., sorry about that!

[Goodwill]

No 616 stuff here... The whole purpose of the Ultimate Universe is to stay away from all of this. What's an even better idea than that is to leave Apocolypse a person inside of Sinister's head.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Hey Dragon that idea sucks :D

[Goodwill]

Hey Dragon that idea sucks :D

You're right, clones and redundant plot lines is what the Ultimate Universe NEEDS. I'm so sorry...

[TheManWithoutFear]

the idea wasn't dealing with clone clones like exact copies but more or warriors modeled after the universes greatest fighters... what's redundant about anything we've said...

[Ice]

Sorry, GW, but I'm with XT on this one. If Apocolypse is just someone in the head of Sinister, that DOES suck. And just because the UU was created to have its own stories or whatever, doesn't mean that EVERYTHING HAS to be different.

[odie1kenobi75]

the idea wasn't dealing with clone clones like exact copies but more or warriors modeled after the universes greatest fighters...

You mean kinda like the being Captain America met in Ultimate Nightmare #4?

[TheManWithoutFear]

You mean kinda like the being Captain America met in Ultimate Nightmare #4?

Didn't read it... yet.... waiting for TPB....

[Goodwill]

You mean kinda like the being Captain America met in Ultimate Nightmare #4?

Yeah, you have the right idea... It's a weak one at that, but it is an idea.

[TheManWithoutFear]

someone post whatever this cap clone or whatever was in the in the ultimate nightmare thread I want to read it...
does anyone else have ideas for horsemen?

[Ice]

To read about the 'clone cap' of what they speak of, go check out the "Ultimate Nightmare #4...spoilers" thread. In there you shall find the answer in which you seak.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Thanks Ice

[Goodwill]

Yeah, so one question remains... If Apocolypse was really real, do you think that the Fenris Twins are two more people to his band of Horseman, following Sinister? To finish them out, Mojo could become one, too, and that would explain a ton, you know? All of them would eventually come back in this huge arc that he has planned and kick ass.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Everyone working for Apocalypse... I don't really buy that but I would under one condition Magneto knew about it and wanted to stop Apoc too... but where do you get off saying these people are working for him too??

[E]

PLEASE - no Horsemen nonsense.

[TheManWithoutFear]

o ultimateE when this arc comes out I will be thinking about you :roll: :twisted:

[Caduceus]

Yeah, so one question remains... If Apocolypse was really real, do you think that the Fenris Twins are two more people to his band of Horseman, following Sinister? To finish them out, Mojo could become one, too, and that would explain a ton, you know? All of them would eventually come back in this huge arc that he has planned and kick ass.

I'm not really sure where you got this theory from so, to me, it seems that you are just grabbing the most recent villains and saying "oooh, horsies". I don't really know what it would explain (other than Sinister/Poccy's relationship) because the Fenris twins didn't really have any connection with Poccy at all and Gambit's connection with Sinister was clearly meant to be in the past. It seems to me that its entirely for the developement of Gambit's character rather than anything to do with Fenris, especially now he's severed his connection with them

[Goodwill]

What I'm saying is: These recent villains are puppets being used by Apocolypse, you know? With them not knowing what they are doing, really, but Apocolypse does would be extremely cool... Vaughan could turn Apocolypse into his big arc at the end!

[TheManWithoutFear]

I like villains all having seperate agendas...

You know what I was thinkin' would be even better for Rogue being a horsemen and Gambit going to the X-Men for help... if Xavier let him stay but wouldn't talk to the students about it because none of them knew exactly what was going on xept Gambit and Xavier... Gambit wouldn't usually go for help but he knows from his dealings with Sinister that something big was going to happen... Xavier somehow knew how dangerous things would get too and the students would all be heated because they weren't getting answers ...

[Caduceus]

I think Rogue is one of the most powerful characters in MU in a way that is often overlooked. In the "Invasion" arc of X-treme, she took out basically a whole invasion fleet by herself when she had control of her powers (thanks to Sage). Poccy chooses his horseman on the basis of strength (theoretically) so the strongest mutants or people should be horsemen. Rogue could easily be a horseman. One thing about Gambit is that he won't go for help so it would be good if the Ultimate Gambit was capable of realising when he was outgunned.

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

i vote yes. I think they are doing the most simple think, Apocalypse is real but is trapped in another dimension (they have phoenix that came form other dimension why not another another dimension? :D ) and he needs a sacrifice (or ten) so he can come to their universe.

[TheManWithoutFear]

good call UQ

[ProjectX2]

Apocalypse is real...

You guys shouldn't look so forward to the Age of Apocalypse...

[Caduceus]

i vote yes. I think they are doing the most simple think, Apocalypse is real but is trapped in another dimension (they have phoenix that came form other dimension why not another another dimension? :D ) and he needs a sacrifice (or ten) so he can come to their universe.

That theory makes lots and lots and lóts of sense. Thats so unusual that you get Cad's gold star of approvalness

[Goodwill]

Well, though I voted no, I agree.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Soooo....

With his return I suppose all we'll get is Sinister useing his imagination again? *Innocent Whistling*

[E]

Soooo....

With his return I suppose all we'll get is Sinister useing his imagination again? *Innocent Whistling*

Most likely.

That, by the way, is the only acceptable answer to MWoF's question.

[Bass]

Apocalypse, like Loki, is 100% real.

Don't make me manifesto your ***.

[Goodwill]

He's as real as you want to believe he is. ;)

[Caduceus]

Apocalypse, like Loki, is 100% real.

Don't make me manifesto your ***.
Manifesto's. They're like sub poenas. But diriter, and with pictures!

[E]

Apocalypse, like Loki, is 100% real.

Don't make me manifesto your ***.

Don't make a mockery of your otherwise excellent manifestos. Apocalypse is imaginary.

[Goodwill]

Those pictures are the best part.

[Bass]

Don't make a mockery of your otherwise excellent manifestos. Apocalypse is imaginary.

What did you say?


You're the greatest man alive, Bass. If only I wasn't married. And you're right about Apocalypse being real. You're always right. That's why you're the nexus of the world.

That's better.

[TheManWithoutFear]

That's better.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA :lol:

[Goodwill]

What does Nexus mean, anyway?

[Caduceus]

nex·us
n. pl. nexus or nex·us·es

1. A means of connection; a link or tie: “this nexus between New York's... real-estate investors and its... politicians” (Wall Street Journal).
2. A connected series or group.
3. The core or center: “The real nexus of the money culture [was] Wall Street” (Bill Barol).

[moonmaster]

nex·us
n. pl. nexus or nex·us·es

1. Bass
2. Bass
3. Bass

That sounds about right. :wink:





( i can manipulate people's posts, too ya know. )

[Bass]

Thanks, but don't carried away with editing other people's posts Mooney. :wink:

Nexus also, from Babylon 5, "You're what people call a nexus. You go one way, and the world tends to go the same way."

I think it's appropriate and true.

[moonmaster]

Thanks, but don't carried away with editing other people's posts Mooney. :wink:

But,......it's so fun.


Nexus also, from Babylon 5, "You're what people call a nexus. You go one way, and the world tends to go the same way."

I think it's appropriate and true.

Damn straight. I will follow you anywhere, Bass. Anywhere. :dazed: :dazed: :dazed:

[Goodwill]

Thanks, but don't carried away with editing other people's posts Mooney. :wink:

Nexus also, from Babylon 5, "You're what people call a nexus. You go one way, and the world tends to go the same way."

I think it's appropriate and true.

I'm just gonna go the opposite way in spite of you. ;) I'm my own 'nexus', pal! :lol:

[E]

Bass, I told you to keep those private messages private.

[Goodwill]

Yeah, because now you've got competition. ;) Prepare to fall to the might of Goodwill. :)

[Bass]

Bass, I told you to keep those private messages private.

I don't think it counts as a private message when you get me down to Jenny Jones to pretend that I'm getting a singing contract and then tell everyone in the audience.

You're your own worst enemy.

[E]

I don't think it counts as a private message when you get me down to Jenny Jones to pretend that I'm getting a singing contract and then tell everyone in the audience.

You're your own worst enemy.

IT WAS A JOKE AND IT WAS 12 YEARS AGO. Get over it already.

[Goodwill]

Wow, E, you're hurting people's feelings left and right around here, eh?

[Bass]

IT WAS A JOKE AND IT WAS 12 YEARS AGO. Get over it already.

Oh, I see! You can talk about it now that the statute of limitations has passed! Pff.

[E]

Oh, I see! You can talk about it now that the statute of limitations has passed! Pff.

Look, you're the one who dragged Judge Judy into this - not me.

[Bass]

Isn't it strange how two people can completely different recollections of the same event?

[Patriot Mk2]

Isn't it strange how two people can completely different recollections of the same event?

Isn't that what Jackson said?

[E]

Isn't it strange how two people can completely different recollections of the same event?

LIAR! I speak the truth!

[Goodwill]

Does the Apocolypse really mean the return of Sinister, only as a much more difficult threat to bring down? Could be...

[Bass]

LIAR! I speak the truth!

Takes one to know one!

[Patriot Mk2]

Does the Apocolypse really mean the return of Sinister, only as a much more difficult threat to bring down? Could be...

Guess so,he's a horseman right?

[Ice]

Guess so, he's a horseman right?
The return doesn't neccesarily mean that Sinister will be back, too. Apoc. might have left him behind for his failure. If I remember right, I think Sinister was workin' towards being a Horseman, here.

[Caduceus]

Ultimate Poccy doesn't have Horsemen yet and may never. Even then, Sinister and he haven't always had the best track record.

[Goodwill]

Guess so,he's a horseman right?

There was actually mention of Sinister being a Horseman, so I don't think it's entirely a good idea to count them out so soon. Not that you were, Cad, I just remember Apocolypse saying at the end of the arc that he was going to look for other Horseman.

[Nick Kal]

He better be. He's too important an X villain to not be.

[airjavier31]

I think it'd be a great twist to have sinister as an open enemy to Poccy as opposed to the love/hate relationship they had in 616.

The possible horseman could be
1) Archangel (cuz it's classic and it'd take the pansy out of the current angel)
2) Cable (because it's happening in C/DD and it sounds pretty cool. Also it'd be a sweet twist to see the biggest enemy of 'poc turn into one of his greatest warriors, and a great spin on a classic marvel character)
3) Dark Beast - no need for explanation
4) An all-new, UU original character

It'd be cool if the x-men were forced to team up with sinister to bring down 'poc. create a lot of tension and maybe spark sinister's fascination with scott and jean

what do u guys think?

[Goodwill]

Personally, I would like to see all of the Horseman be original characters, if that's the way you're going to play. I don't think mixing a new character into a batch of old, classic characters is wise.

[TheManWithoutFear]

I think it'd be a great twist to have sinister as an open enemy to Poccy as opposed to the love/hate relationship they had in 616.

The possible horseman could be
1) Archangel (cuz it's classic and it'd take the pansy out of the current angel)
2) Cable (because it's happening in C/DD and it sounds pretty cool. Also it'd be a sweet twist to see the biggest enemy of 'poc turn into one of his greatest warriors, and a great spin on a classic marvel character)
3) Dark Beast - no need for explanation
4) An all-new, UU original character

It'd be cool if the x-men were forced to team up with sinister to bring down 'poc. create a lot of tension and maybe spark sinister's fascination with scott and jean

what do u guys think?Sounds good to me.

[Goodwill]

You would be open to having Cable on the Horseman? That's very interesting...

[airjavier31]

Personally, I would like to see all of the Horseman be original characters, if that's the way you're going to play. I don't think mixing a new character into a batch of old, classic characters is wise.

why not? as far as the ultimate universe goes, i think this would be a great way of keeping things fresh. Plus, those old classic characters you're talking about aren't quite classic in the uu. albeit there haven't been too many drastic changes to most of the characters, i don't want to see the uu limited because of how things happened in 616.

[Dr.Strangefate]

I'd say yes to Dark Beast and Archangel... but no to the others....

Rogue and Gambit would just make sense, I mean, Gambit causes destruction (War), and Rogue would make a great

Maybe the One-shot has Juggernaut as War, and when Gambit and Rogue beat him, he makes some better choices.

Has anyone considered the possibility of Introducing Thunderbird (a la Exiles) this way?

[TheManWithoutFear]

I'm still for the Rogue as a Horseman and Gambit going to the X-Men for help.

[Goodwill]

why not? as far as the ultimate universe goes, i think this would be a great way of keeping things fresh. Plus, those old classic characters you're talking about aren't quite classic in the uu. albeit there haven't been too many drastic changes to most of the characters, i don't want to see the uu limited because of how things happened in 616.

Neither do I, but with the UU, you don't necessarily have to reinvent the wheel. That's why I'm saying all or nothing.

[Caduceus]

I'm still for the Rogue as a Horseman and Gambit going to the X-Men for help.
I still like that idea.

[Goodwill]

I would like it to, if the X-Men were reluctant to help. Anything with Gambit really has to be written a certain way now that he's taken a plane to the team dynamic without meaning to.

[TheManWithoutFear]

I would like it to, if the X-Men were reluctant to help.Well like I said, certain members would and certain members wouldn't be. Logan and Iceman would definitely not be in favor but knowing Colossus who is always gung-ho on helping fellow mutants than he probably would. Xavier would have to say yes because if he said no then there would be no story. But all of this dynamic is what makes the whole Gambit/X-Men relationship interesting.

I really hope this happens... I mean really do hope this happens. Some of my ideas are terrible but this has a lot of substance to it.

[Dr.Strangefate]

I would really like seeing that too...

Rogue works as... well... a Rogue. Gambits the good thief, but rogue's a bad girl at heart, and works best that way...

Gambit in the X-Men would also be really nice

[Goodwill]

I would really like seeing that too...

Rogue works as... well... a Rogue. Gambits the good thief, but rogue's a bad girl at heart, and works best that way...

Gambit in the X-Men would also be really nice

Agreed... When on the team, under Vaughan at least, she seemed to have more edge than even Dazzler, which I liked. Now that she's not on the team, she can return to how she was before. That may be backtracking in terms of development, but when you've got a teenage character, there's probably a lot of that.

[Spade]

Oh btw, Jesus never existed





ok, i think we should all keep our religious opinions to ourselves, i am a Christian and found this very offensive political opinions are one thing but this is another

[Goodwill]

Where did you hear something like that?

[Caduceus]

Oh btw, Jesus never existed





ok, i think we should all keep our religious opinions to ourselves, i am a Christian and found this very offensive political opinions are one thing but this is another
Admittedly, I'm too lazy to wade through the pages and pages of rambling we have up here but I skimmed a few of the more recent ones, and can't for the life of me figure out what you find offensive.

[Goodwill]

That's what I thought, too... Sorry if I was the one that prompted your post.

[Spade]

on page 1 of this thread post #14 longshotjimlee posted the phrase "o btw Jesus never existed" which I being a Christian found very offensive. This isnt the place to be debating things like this though. So this is why we keep our religious and political opinions to ourselves to avoid conflict.

[Goodwill]

Oh... Well, yes, that's exactly why we should not bring that sort of thing up, but to kick up dirt over something said so long ago is not helping the situation. Now that we're clear on what to talk about and what not to, we should really be getting back to Apocolypse...

[TheManWithoutFear]

Yeah, thanks for killing the thread Spade. If you knew LSJL then you'd know it was a joke.

Back to Apocolypse who is coming back sooner than later.

[Goodwill]

Well, you can't say he killed it, MwoF. He couldn't have known it was a joke. It's not like you can blame him. Be nice. :)

Yeah, I think that Apocolypse will most definitely play a large role in Singer's arc, however long it is. If it is Apocolypse that Singer's going to focus on, I really hope that it will be a 12 issue arc, as someone said before. That's the only way we can really do Apocolypse well.

[Spade]

i think he'll be in singer's arc

[Random]

I'd rather see them plant more seeds for a little while before they reveal him. Making it seem like a storm is coming type of stuff. Build it up some more, show sign and forshadow how bg this will be.

[Goodwill]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, too. I think they should introduce the Horsemen first and then introduce the bigger guy, Apocolypse, for the grand finale. I think that's the best way to do it and would probably be able to last 12 issues before it got stale.

[DIrishB]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, too. I think they should introduce the Horsemen first and then introduce the bigger guy, Apocolypse, for the grand finale. I think that's the best way to do it and would probably be able to last 12 issues before it got stale.

I agree, and think it could be well done, especially if Vaughn lays the groundwork for Singer to work with. We already know Singer will be using Magneto heavily, but will he use him all 12 issues? Personally, I think we'll see Magneto in the 5 part "Magnetic North" in UXM #61-65 (obviously), and then it was mentioned UXM #66-67 would be by Vaughn and Singer and be a 2-part story with Apocalypse. Perhaps this 2-parter leads into a longer, either 4, 5, or 6-part arc during Singer's run. I at least hope for it anyway. Apocalypse in the Ultimate Universe should be a big deal and a major threat, he deserves his own full size arc. Especially if they ultimize his horsemen. What if they made Ultimate Archangel, and what if one of Apocalypse's other horsemen was a resurrected Beast? Ok, just kidding. That would really mess with Storm's head though. Anyway, I know we're gonna see more of him, I just want to know what his story/origin in the Ultimate Universe is.

[Goodwill]

These are all very good questions and the ones that you have asked/stated will likely be the groundwork of Singer's run. Where Magneto fall when Apocolypse shows up? Where is Apocolypse going to show up? What ties does he truly have to Sinister if any ay all? We'll have to see... Awesome.

[Spade]

beast has 2 b a horseman i dont think its a coincidence that beast died rite b4 we meet sinister an apoclypase(cant spell)

[E]

Did Magneto and Apocolypse ever cross paths in 616?

[TheManWithoutFear]

Did Magneto and Apocolypse ever cross paths in 616?

I don't know but I'm sure they will in the UU. Apocolypse would make for an interesting comparative to Magneto.

Isn't what Ultimate Magneto try to do what 616 Apocolypse tried to do? Only wasn't Apoc willing to eliminate all of the weaker mutants also and not just homo sapiens?

[Caduceus]

Isn't what Ultimate Magneto try to do what 616 Apocolypse tried to do? Only wasn't Apoc willing to eliminate all of the weaker mutants also and not just homo sapiens?
616 Apoc was "I'm better than all of you. Anyone who can stand up to me and not be chewed into tiny little pieces gets to live." Ultimate Magneto is more about the "Die human scum!!!!!

He reminds me of Invader Zim a great deal.