Too much of a good thing

[Goodwill]

Well, it would seem every time I talk to my friend, Meta, he always brings up something to bring up to you guys on the board... I really should consider getting this guy to join; if you can believe it he's really smart and he really tends to know his Marvel stuff. I'm sure he could top even eroz in that comic quiz if he really wanted to.

Anyway, I wanted to ask you all if you think that having characters ultimized at this fast a rate is a good thing or a bad thing. Meta and I sort of agree that it will write the title into a corner (An especially tough one at that if all of the characters keep getting locked in SHIELD).

[TheManWithoutFear]

Is this the same Meta from ComixFan? and regardless yes he should join the site.

What rate our we talking about? I think thing's are going rather smoothly out of my top 5 favorite heroes only 2 have been seriously ultimized the other 2 make small cameos and 1 hasn't even gotten there yet... there's still a lot of history to cover I don't see a problem

[Caduceus]

Its not like they´re going to run out of characters. The Ultimizations have slowed down really. So why not just go with the flow?

[Goodwill]

Well, I'm talking particularly UXM here, guys... I mean, Beast is dead, we've seen Magneto, Sinister, the Acolytes, the Brotherhood, Proteus, etc. and, yet, we still haven't gone back to them. Vaughan insists on throwing in those almost annoying camoes (I'm not saying I don't like them but still) and he's got characters coming out the rear with every new arc he writes... You guys don't see this?

[Ice]

GW, where are the Acolytes? Which arc did they appear in? :?

[ProjectX2]

How could you forget? They fought the X-Men in New Zealand atop the Sky Tower in Auckland. They were split off from the Brotherhood and only appeared in one issue during the end of the World Tour arc.

[Ice]

Ah yes. I forgot. Sorry, it's been a while...

[E]

Vaughan insists on throwing in those almost annoying camoes

Eh? Like....?

[Dr.Strangefate]

Hmm....

I dont think he's writing himself into a corner. There's still soooooo much ground they can cover, and once they have this basis of continuity down, they'll start going off the Ultimate character's personalities and end up with new characters, new situations, new revelations, etc etc etc...

[René]

Eh? Like....?

Like in Temptest when he had that guy that burst into flames. He's from Brazil and he also had Marrow. In Cry Wolf he had Puck and Wolfsbane.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Like in Temptest when he had that guy that burst into flames. He's from Brazil and he also had Marrow. In Cry Wolf he had Puck and Wolfsbane.

Personally I don't mind the nod instead of a full out story centered on these characters... I mean think about X-2 when it came out... best part of the movie... yea colossus...

besides just because they make quick cameos now doesn't mean down the road the government can't recruit them and take them out of the circus ya know? Give it some time anything can happen.

[Caduceus]

besides just because they make quick cameos now doesn't mean down the road the government can't recruit them and take them out of the circus ya know? Give it some time anything can happen.

Look at Gambit for example

[Goodwill]

Eh? Like....?

Wolfsbane, Sunspot, and the four mutants that have a likeness to characters.

[Dr.Strangefate]

Wolfsbane, Sunspot, and the four mutants that have a likeness to characters.

The ones with likeness is the Artist's doing, not Vaughn's. Remember Bishop in the Savage Land, and then he's magically also a kid with a bad arrest record?

And for Sunspot and Northstar(who is arguably another guy tossed in), both of those are decent starts to characters who can be expanded on in the future. Sunspot's already a little guardian of some sort, with a grudge against the mutants living the high life, and Jean Paul could go in a lot of directions, he knows about the school, wants collossus, etc.

Wolfsbane, that could have been done better.... But thats just one. I think Bendis was worse when he did a whole load of characters in New Mutants. But, -shrug-

[Goodwill]

Yes, but there is only so much that you can do with any character, do you know what I'm saying? You have to take into consideration that, the reason that Marvel has so many characters, is because, after one grows unpopular, another takes its place... I think mutants are coming and going too frequently.

[Ice]

Well, out of all the books, The X-Men have the biggest number of characters. So I think right now, things are ok...

[E]

Yes, but there is only so much that you can do with any character, do you know what I'm saying? You have to take into consideration that, the reason that Marvel has so many characters, is because, after one grows unpopular, another takes its place... I think mutants are coming and going too frequently.

You know what that means - time for ULTIMATE XORN!



:wink:

[Goodwill]

What's that supposed to mean? I really don't get your 616 humor here! ;)

[Caduceus]

You know what that means - time for ULTIMATE XORN!

Don´t threaten us with that you evil little man. Please.


But Xorn ahead of Ultimate Stacy-X

[Goodwill]

Xorn was just created, what, a year ago? We don't need an Ultimate version of him for a long, long time! I would like the classics, if any, first.

[Friday]

I think that it might be moving a little fast in the X-Men department, but aside from there it's really growing gradualy. What we need is an Ultimate X-Guide, just to see who was really who and who was just an overeger artist.

[Goodwill]

While you're right, that would never happen, you know? I think that the fact that there's been pretty much all the mainstream characters show up within, what, three years, is pretty bad... :-/

[Friday]

Well, we haven't seen..... um...... Ahab! Or... ah..... Orphan Maker!

[Caduceus]

Xorn was just created, what, a year ago? We don't need an Ultimate version of him for a long, long time! I would like the classics, if any, first.

I don´t think that because a character is a recent character, you should exclude them. New characters are fine but they are slightly less likely, lacking the convoluted history thats all.

P.S Xorn turns 4 sometime soon i believe. He first appeared in an New X-men annual 2001.

[E]

I don´t think that because a character is a recent character, you should exclude them. New characters are fine but they are slightly less likely, lacking the convoluted history thats all.

Agreed. Normally by Ultimizing a character they are "fixing" problems with him/her. The problem with Xorn is not anything that Morrison did, it's how Marvel crapped on him after the fact.

[Goodwill]

I'm not talking about Xorn in general, it's the fact that they still have room to build on these characters and if you ultimize one that isn't "stable" than you have problems. For instance, Ultimate Gwen Stacy's never going to boink Norman and have those two kids... That's a storyline missed. That's an example.

[Caduceus]

So your saying they should only Ultimize characters that are stale and have nothing else that can possibly be done with them??

[Friday]

I'm not talking about Xorn in general, it's the fact that they still have room to build on these characters and if you ultimize one that isn't "stable" than you have problems. For instance, Ultimate Gwen Stacy's never going to boink Norman and have those two kids... That's a storyline missed. That's an example.

Thank god...

[E]

Ah, Baxter is a 'Sins Past' hatah.

[Caduceus]

You've got this little secret database don't you E/Watcher. You just fill in the arcs we hate and so on and record. I'm waiting for your wife to blame us for your head getting out of proportion!

[E]

Muh hu ha ha ha ha ha!!!

[Goodwill]

Well, I didn't mean to get us stuck on something like Sin's Past, as I imagined we would, but do you see what I'm saying? "Catastrophic" things are still happening and, if these characters are being given new backgrounds and are being killed off before anything is said and done, then those storylines are lost.

[IcyFlames]

However, not every catastrophic event in a character's life has to be ultimatized, especially ones that didn't pan out well in the end. Many times in these mainstream comics, some big events that become unpopular are somehow phased out or retconned. If they decided to make Nightcrawler's dad Satan in the UU, and then realized that the idea received negative reactions for both universes, they'd be screwed. So it might be better to use what worked in the past, and etch out their ideas from that.


The problem will arise when the new events become the status quo of the character. If Wolverine ends up leaving the X-Men forever and is an Avenger for the rest of his comic book career, then UX would have to incorporate this. That shouldn't be too much of a problem (obviously BKV can write the X-Men without Wolverine). Same with 'Sins Past'. If Stacy's kids become popular characters, a writer will find some way to incorporate them into the UU (Stacy's cousins, Stacy's half-brother/sister who grew up at an accelerated pace because of super-serum, I really couldn't care less about these two).

There are many stories that can be told in the Ultimate Universe, many characters who have tales not yet covered. I don't see USM lasting for 500 issues, but if there is a point where Bendis (or whatever writer for whatever title) has ultimatized every great story to their breaking point, well then, there are twice as many crappy stories out there that could easily be fixed up. The ideas won't run out.

[ProjectX2]

Welcome! Two new guys at the same time...

[Caduceus]

Welcome! Two new guys at the same time...

Growth Spurt. Welcome to Ultimate Central Puberty.

[E]

Welcome Icyflames - too bad you weren't here a few days earlier for the "best avatar" poll. Awesome. :lol:

[Friday]

Growth Spurt. Welcome to Ultimate Central Puberty.

Better than the joke I woulda made.

Welcome Jewles.

[Synch]

Every story doesn't have to be an ultimized story of something we already know. like most of us have already seen they can come up with some new creative stuff on their own. i wouldn't mind seeing a few ultimate characters that are new i've seen a couple but there's no need to stop now.

[TheManWithoutFear]

Welcome Icyflames - too bad you weren't here a few days earlier for the "best avatar" poll. Awesome. :lol:

oooo sure add him in.... :lol:

IcyFlames is from comixfan and I just got a new referral I dunno if it was him or not but yea, go me...

I already welcomed him first thing last night via PM but I'll do it again. Welcome home Icy.

[Goodwill]

Welcome, Ice! Let me tell ya, you DO have the best avatar around here... ;)

[Ice]

Wow, two Ice's. That'll get confusing somewhere down the road....



Anywho, welcome dude! :D

[Goodwill]

We can call you... Hmm... How about Mush? It's the only thing I could come up with. ;)