Avengers: Age of Ultron Discussion (Spoilers)

How would you rate Avengers: Age of Ultron?

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    7
DARKKNIGHT

DARKKNIGHT

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I saw it today. It was pretty good, but not great. I liked it, but I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite Marvel films. As a whole, I think it wanted to do too much. Because of this, it kind of felt unfocused. I especially thought that the Black Widow/Bruce Banner and Hawkeye's family subplots could have been eliminated or at least decreased. It was entertaining all the way through, but it really felt like it was just treading water until we get to Thanos. Part of the problem may be that we already kind of know how the movie will end, since they have announced the Marvel movies for the foreseeable future.

Overall, I'd give it a B. In terms of Marvel films, I'd rank them: 1) The Avengers, 2) Guardians of the Galaxy, 3) Captain America: Winter Soldier, 4) Captain America: First Avenger, 5) Iron Man, 6) Avengers: Age of Ultron, 7) Thor: The Dark World, 8 ) Iron Man 2, 9) Iron Man 3, 10) Thor, 11) The Incredible Hulk.
 
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Re: The Avengers 2 (News/Rumors/Discussion Thread)

DARKKNIGHT said:
I saw it today. It was pretty good, but not great. I liked it, but I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite Marvel films. As a whole, I think it wanted to do too much. Because of this, it kind of felt unfocused. I especially thought that the Black Widow/Bruce Banner and Hawkeye's family subplots could have been eliminated or at least decreased. It was entertaining all the way through, but it really felt like it was just treading water until we get to Thanos. Part of the problem may be that we already kind of know how the movie will end, since they have announced the Marvel movies for the foreseeable future.
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I basically agree. For me, it wasn't the Black Widow/Bruce Banner and Hawkeye's family subplots so much as it was the setting up of the next movies: Thor going to find Dr Selvig and then having the vision of the infinity stones in the pool, and pretty much everything related to the mind gem. Ultron needed to be more developed as a character. I was confused about how I was supposed to feel about him all the way through. He was a big evil robot who was also kind of bumbling and funny and maybe sort of sympathetic. But they didn't sell me on any of it. Show me why he hates Stark. Show me why he's sort of right in trying to destroy humanity. Show me more of the perspective he lacks that Vision has. Show more of how the world mistrusts the Avengers. Show me more of the Maximoffs' relationship. Show me their motivation to protect each other and their country. I think those elements could have made it a truly great movie.

Overall, I'd give it a B. In terms of Marvel films, I'd rank them: 1) The Avengers, 2) Guardians of the Galaxy, 3) Captain America: Winter Soldier, 4) Captain America: First Avenger, 5) Iron Man, 6) Avengers: Age of Ultron, 7) Thor: The Dark World, 8 ) Iron Man 2, 9) Iron Man 3, 10) Thor, 11) The Incredible Hulk.
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I think my ranking is:
1) Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2) The Avengers
3) Iron Man
4) Guardians of the Galaxy
5) Thor: The Dark World
6) Avengers: Age of Ultron
7) Captain America: The First Avenger
8) The Incredible Hulk
9) Iron Man 3
10) Thor
11) Iron Man 2
 
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Re: The Avengers 2 (News/Rumors/Discussion Thread)

Captain Canuck said:
I basically agree. For me, it wasn't the Black Widow/Bruce Banner and Hawkeye's family] subplots so much as it was the setting up of the next movies: Thor going to find Dr Selvig and then having the vision of the infinity stones in the pool, and pretty much everything related to the mind gem. Ultron needed to be more developed as a character. I was confused about how I was supposed to feel about him all the way through. He was a big evil robot who was also kind of bumbling and funny and maybe sort of sympathetic. But they didn't sell me on any of it. Show me why he hates Stark. Show me why he's sort of right in trying to destroy humanity. Show me more of the perspective he lacks that Vision has. Show more of how the world mistrusts the Avengers. Show me more of the Maximoffs' relationship. Show me their motivation to protect each other and their country. I think those elements could have made it a truly great movie.
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Yeah, I think it had a lot of good ideas, but most of them felt under cooked and not explored enough. I honestly forgot about the random pool that Thor goes to. After they mentioned that, I spent a couple minutes trying to remember if they established it in any of the previous films. I've heard a rumor that there may be an extended version on DVD, so maybe that will flesh out the story some.
 
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Re: The Avengers 2 (News/Rumors/Discussion Thread)

For me it's

1) Captain America: The First Avenger
2) Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3) Iron Man 3
4) The Incredible Hulk
5) Guardians of the Galaxy
6) Iron Man
7) Thor: The Dark World
8) The Avengers
9) Iron Man 2
10) Thor
11) The Avengers : Age of Ultron
 
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Re: The Avengers 2 (News/Rumors/Discussion Thread)

Captain Canuck said:
I basically agree. For me, it wasn't the Black Widow/Bruce Banner and Hawkeye's family subplots so much as it was the setting up of the next movies: Thor going to find Dr Selvig and then having the vision of the infinity stones in the pool, and pretty much everything related to the mind gem. Ultron needed to be more developed as a character. I was confused about how I was supposed to feel about him all the way through. He was a big evil robot who was also kind of bumbling and funny and maybe sort of sympathetic. But they didn't sell me on any of it. Show me why he hates Stark. Show me why he's sort of right in trying to destroy humanity. Show me more of the perspective he lacks that Vision has. Show more of how the world mistrusts the Avengers. Show me more of the Maximoffs' relationship. Show me their motivation to protect each other and their country. I think those elements could have made it a truly great movie.
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That's fair. This is why I really hope the rumors of the Extended Edition are true. I have a feeling that extra half hour or so of footage was exactly that: more character focus on Ultron, and perhaps the twins as well.

I still think Whedon did a fantastic job balancing the large number of characters, but it at the same time detracted from the film's focus in many ways.
 
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Re: The Avengers 2 (News/Rumors/Discussion Thread)

Okay, collected my thought for DIB to rip into.

I'm a dialogue whore and Whedon just is not good at it. I think about two of the jokes actually made me laugh out loud while the rest just made me uncomfortable. Then there was too much stuff going on without any of it actually being explored, so much time wasted on setting up other films, the new character were all plot devices, Quicksilver's death had zero impact on the movie and worse no emotional impact, Ultron wasn't menacing in the slightest and was just a complete mess of a character, Black Widow and Hulk's relationship had no importance to anything and could have been written out entirely and still make him leaving make the same amount of sense, the CGI looked really bad quite often, the cinematography was bland, Hulk shouldn't have lost, the final battle went on WAY too long and was anticlimactic, a lot of the acting was poor (but I blame this on Whedon's directing because all of these people are great actors), and this movie felt like it got sliced to pieces on the editing floor. It was like a better The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

Now, what I liked. There was great team dynamic, Vision was awesome, Quicksilver was awesome, Scarlet Witch was awesome, Ultron looked a lot better than I thought he was going to, the cinematography was better than the first one, felt like a comic book, I teared up when Vision saved Wanda, cheered when Captain America told them to "walk it off" (best line of the film by far), and Hawkeye needs a Netflix show NOW. It was fun to watch and should be fun again when I do my timeline viewing in 2019.

It was clear that this could have been a really damn cool story if Whedon had only plotted it out and did nothing else with the film. 7/10
 
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Re: The Avengers 2 (News/Rumors/Discussion Thread)

wyokid said:
Okay, collected my thought for DIB to rip into.

I'm a dialogue whore and Whedon just is not good at it. I think about two of the jokes actually made me laugh out loud while the rest just made me uncomfortable. Then there was too much stuff going on without any of it actually being explored, so much time wasted on setting up other films, the new character were all plot devices, Quicksilver's death had zero impact on the movie and worse no emotional impact, Ultron wasn't menacing in the slightest and was just a complete mess of a character, Black Widow and Hulk's relationship had no importance to anything and could have been written out entirely and still make him leaving make the same amount of sense, the CGI looked really bad quite often, the cinematography was bland, Hulk shouldn't have lost, the final battle went on WAY too long and was anticlimactic, a lot of the acting was poor (but I blame this on Whedon's directing because all of these people are great actors), and this movie felt like it got sliced to pieces on the editing floor. It was like a better The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

Now, what I liked. There was great team dynamic, Vision was awesome, Quicksilver was awesome, Scarlet Witch was awesome, Ultron looked a lot better than I thought he was going to, the cinematography was better than the first one, felt like a comic book, I teared up when Vision saved Wanda, cheered when Captain America told them to "walk it off" (best line of the film by far), and Hawkeye needs a Netflix show NOW. It was fun to watch and should be fun again when I do my timeline viewing in 2019.

It was clear that this could have been a really damn cool story if Whedon had only plotted it out and did nothing else with the film. 7/10
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Generally I agree, actually.
 
Re: ----

Can someone explain to me what Thor's magic hot tub was all about? It was kinda like "I need answers, Imma get in this water. Cool, I know everything, time to zap this robot with lightning". What was that thing? How does Selvig know about it?
 
Re: ----

wyokid said:
Okay, collected my thought for DIB to rip into.

I'm a dialogue whore and Whedon just is not good at it. I think about two of the jokes actually made me laugh out loud while the rest just made me uncomfortable. Then there was too much stuff going on without any of it actually being explored, so much time wasted on setting up other films, the new character were all plot devices, Quicksilver's death had zero impact on the movie and worse no emotional impact, Ultron wasn't menacing in the slightest and was just a complete mess of a character, Black Widow and Hulk's relationship had no importance to anything and could have been written out entirely and still make him leaving make the same amount of sense,
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Totally agreed so far - except for the dialogue. I thought it was fine. Especially Hawkeye going off about Quicksiver at the end. :lol: But Wanda and Pietro and Ultron needed so much more development. When Ultron cut off Claw's arm and then said, "Oh, sorry. I'm sure it will be fine." I was like, what are they trying to do with this character? And then "Don't do this!" Give me a reason to believe that he's actually hurt by Wanda and Pietro turning on him.

The concept of a frankenstein monster with a daddy complex and some insight into humanity but missing the big picture is a fascinating one. Especially when balanced out with the Vision.

And I really really wanted to see more of the Maximoff's motivations and relationship. Their parents were killed by a Stark missile. That's a genius touch. But you can't leave it there. That needs to be explored more.

I wish Hydra and Strucker had continued to be a presence longer in the movie and Ultron had worked with them until he was ready to reveal his endgame. That would have given them time to explore Ultron and the Maximoffs in more detail. And then Quicksilver's death would have been way more meaningful.

the CGI looked really bad quite often, the cinematography was bland, Hulk shouldn't have lost, the final battle went on WAY too long and was anticlimactic, a lot of the acting was poor (but I blame this on Whedon's directing because all of these people are great actors),
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Hulk shouldn't have lost, but they had to for the story. I can overlook that. I don't agree about the CGI or the acting, but I did feel that the climactic battle at the end reverted back to the "villain makes a big threatening machine" trope. And Fury appearing out of nowhere with a helicarrier was very Deus Ex Machina.

and this movie felt like it got sliced to pieces on the editing floor. It was like a better The Amazing Spider-Man 2.
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Yeah, exactly.


Now, what I liked. There was great team dynamic, Vision was awesome, Quicksilver was awesome, Scarlet Witch was awesome, Ultron looked a lot better than I thought he was going to, the cinematography was better than the first one, felt like a comic book, I teared up when Vision saved Wanda, cheered when Captain America told them to "walk it off" (best line of the film by far), and Hawkeye needs a Netflix show NOW. It was fun to watch and should be fun again when I do my timeline viewing in 2019.

It was clear that this could have been a really damn cool story if Whedon had only plotted it out and did nothing else with the film. 7/10
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I agree. Hawkeye continues to be my favourite character. And it was a decently fun movie. 7/10 is exactly what I ranked it too.

LastActionHero said:
Can someone explain to me what Thor's magic hot tub was all about? It was kinda like "I need answers, Imma get in this water. Cool, I know everything, time to zap this robot with lightning". What was that thing? How does Selvig know about it?
Click to expand...

Thor said that every realm had a pool like it. I guess Selvig used science to help Thor find it. But it was really dumb and should have been cut.
 
Re: ----

LastActionHero said:
Can someone explain to me what Thor's magic hot tub was all about? It was kinda like "I need answers, Imma get in this water. Cool, I know everything, time to zap this robot with lightning". What was that thing? How does Selvig know about it?
Click to expand...

Essentially it was just a convenient plot device used to foreshadow the upcoming Avengers - Infinity War films, and a mini-deus ex machina solution.
 
I get the impression that a lot of the movie got cut at the behest of Disney and/or maybe Marvel executives. Whedon's interview with Empire is pretty interesting, and he notes that the 3 hour and 15 minute cut had some footage that fleshed out some of the plots that felt underdeveloped in the film (Thor's pool, the twins, Ultron, etc). I really hope we get an extended dvd release.
 
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LastActionHero said:
Can someone explain to me what Thor's magic hot tub was all about? It was kinda like "I need answers, Imma get in this water. Cool, I know everything, time to zap this robot with lightning". What was that thing? How does Selvig know about it?
Click to expand...

According to the Whedon interview I posted in the post above yours originally ot was supposed to connect Thor to the Norns, Thor would talk to Loki in a vision, and the Norns would talk to Selvig through Thor in the water.
 
DARKKNIGHT said:
I get the impression that a lot of the movie got cut at the behest of Disney and/or maybe Marvel executives. Whedon's interview with Empire is pretty interesting, and he notes that the 3 hour and 15 minute cut had some footage that fleshed out some of the plots that felt underdeveloped in the film (Thor's pool, the twins, Ultron, etc). I really hope we get an extended dvd release.
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Most likely. Apparently the Marvel execs didn't want to tread into Hobbit/Lord of the Rings running time.

I too am hoping the Extended Cut happens. Marvel would be kind of foolish not to, actually.


wyokid said:
According to the Whedon interview I posted in the post above yours originally ot was supposed to connect Thor to the Norns, Thor would talk to Loki in a vision, and the Norns would talk to Selvig through Thor in the water.
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Despite that just essentially serving as a prelude/advertisement for Thor - Ragnarok and Avengers - Infinity War, Parts 1 and 2, it does sound interesting.
 
I saw it again last night. It was less disappointing the second time and I enjoyed it more.

The scene just before the final battle, where Tony is picking a new operating system for his suit, there's one named 'Jocasta' on the desk (By the way, why did he wait that long to put a new voice in his suit? Shouldn't he have done that as soon as Jarvis was "murdered"?)
 
Captain Canuck said:
I saw it again last night. It was less disappointing the second time and I enjoyed it more.

The scene just before the final battle, where Tony is picking a new operating system for his suit, there's one named 'Jocasta' on the desk (By the way, why did he wait that long to put a new voice in his suit? Shouldn't he have done that as soon as Jarvis was "murdered"?)
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Yup, I mentioned the Jocasta thing (either in this thread or the Timeline one).

The name of the Hulkbuster suit (Veronica) is a direct reference to Archie Comics (Bruce's former love's name was Betty, after all).

Also the "invaders become avengers" line by Ultron and several other Easter eggs I noticed were pretty sweet.
 
DIrishB said:
The name of the Hulkbuster suit (Veronica) is a direct reference to Archie Comics (Bruce's former love's name was Betty, after all).
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hahaha, I was trying to figure out why they called it that. That's clever!

Now that Ross is going to be in Civil War, I hope there is a reference to what happened to Betty after TIH.
 
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