The Overlord
Well-Known Member
Here is Marvel's top ten super villain groups: http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6339.Take_10~colon~_Evil_Alliances
Marvel's Top ten Super villain Groups
- Thread starter The Overlord
- Start date
Grocer Man
Well-Known Member
Freedom Force was awesome, but needs to be higher on the list.
Also, most of these choices suck.
Where's the new Thunderbolts, dang it?!
Also, most of these choices suck.
Where's the new Thunderbolts, dang it?!
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
You can't say most of these choices suck, with without suggesting how to improve the list, its bad form. :wink:
ourchair
Well-Known Member
I've always felt that Marvel and DC are mirror opposites in this regard.
Marvel has some really awesome villains who somehow become lesser when they're part of a team --- Dr. Doom is really not a team up guy, and 'you are just a pawn in my grand scheme to get Reed Richards, steal the Power Cosmic and totally get into Sue's pants' does not count.
DC on the other hand has a broader range of villains --- nobody really jumps up and joy when a cover of Batman says 'The Penguin's BACK!!!' --- who somehow become more awesome when they're a team.
Similarly, Marvel teams are made up of heroes who seem lesser without their teams -- let's just be honest and say that a Mr. Fantastic solo series carries just about as much excitement as a Wasp miniseries --- and carry a lot of their charm with how they interact with the teams they belong to.
Marvel has some really awesome villains who somehow become lesser when they're part of a team --- Dr. Doom is really not a team up guy, and 'you are just a pawn in my grand scheme to get Reed Richards, steal the Power Cosmic and totally get into Sue's pants' does not count.
DC on the other hand has a broader range of villains --- nobody really jumps up and joy when a cover of Batman says 'The Penguin's BACK!!!' --- who somehow become more awesome when they're a team.
Similarly, Marvel teams are made up of heroes who seem lesser without their teams -- let's just be honest and say that a Mr. Fantastic solo series carries just about as much excitement as a Wasp miniseries --- and carry a lot of their charm with how they interact with the teams they belong to.
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
That's true, but some villains, like Lex Luthor and Baron Zemo are awesome, in part, because of their ability to form and lead teams of villains. Someone like Doom works better alone, though I did like when he joined the AoV team, mainly because he was jerk to the other members and in the end more or less gave the rest of the team the finger, in his own unique way.
I think the difference is Marvel villains tend to be more independently minded then their DC counterparts. Many DC villains are outclassed by the heroes they fight, so they try to rely on strength in numbers to stand a better chance, most Marvel villains are equal or greater then the heroes they fight, so they have become kinda arrogant, they don't feel they need to team with others to defeat their enemies. Often when DC villains team up they seem professional, a lot of the team marvel villains team up, they act like a bunch of psychotic 5 year olds. Marvel villains often only team up, if they are forced too.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Of course. I had those exceptions in mind.
Yes. At best, they're just so self-reliant that drawing other people into their plans is only bound to cause complications for themselves. At worst, the jerk wads just get in each other's way either because they're total douches or their interests are so conflicting with one another: It's hard for the guy who wants to destroy the world and the one who wants to rule it to get along.The Overlord said:
Yes. Numbers AND teamwork. I mean, most of the big name DC heroes are so powerful or at the very least, hyper-competent that this becomes necessary. I mean, on their own, each member of the Justice League is pretty much their own ******* superteam, whereas the Fantastic Four members can only ensure their tactical superiority as a team.The Overlord said:
Gemini
Well-Known Member
That depends on the character really, for the last 5 years we've had a New Avengers team that consists of characters that are all far more interesting in their own ongoings (Iron Fist, Captain America, etc.), or would be more interesting on their own ongoings if they had one (Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Hawkeye), than they are on a team.
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
Still true leadership skills are rare in villains, very few villains come off as actual good leaders. Dr. Octopus, is intelligent, a good scientist and criminal schemer, but one thing he is not is a good leader.
That's why I like Acts of Vengeance crossover, the team of villains was mismatched, that implosion was inevitable. Putting five of the biggest villains in MU.....and Wizard, in the same room just wouldn't work out and it didn't. They mainly insulted each other the whole time. I mean red Skull was on the team and was racial insults towards doom and Magneto, Magneto only joined to get a chance to kill him.
But there are Marvel villains who are tailor made minions (Rhino) and lots of the mastermind villains will join teams, if they are the leader (ock).
This why the Hood's team is boring, there's no double dealing or backstabbing and there are no Starscreams in this group. Its boring, this group has no personality.
That's likely why you wouldn't see a group similar to the Rogues in MU.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Overlord. I am AGREEing with you.
However, one can argue that Bendis took a very DC approach in New Avengers, seeing as he made it a far more all-star team than the Traditional Avengers were, by putting the likes of Wolverine, Spider-Man and Daredevil in the team.
I am of course, being highly generalizing in my above observation of course.
However, one can argue that Bendis took a very DC approach in New Avengers, seeing as he made it a far more all-star team than the Traditional Avengers were, by putting the likes of Wolverine, Spider-Man and Daredevil in the team.
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
I know that, I just taking an opportunity to expand upon my points, I'm not always trying to engage in a debate with you, man. Why did you think that was intention?
Anyway, fun question in general, which are the worst super villains groups in MU (or heck DC). Speaking of the Fantastic Four, the 616 Frightful four really suck , Wizard is an idiot. "Let's see the FF regularly defeat Doom and Galactus, so I will pit them against Trapster a man with a glue gun and no common sense. Mwa, ha. ha!" Seriously that group is just not worthy of being the anti FF, the Ultimate Frightful four is way better.
However the dishonour of being the worst villain group has to be the Headmen, a bunch of deformed fifth rate Dr. doom wannabes who were stupid enough to take on the Defenders (the team that includes Hulk, silver surfer, Dr. Strange and Namor) These people are just dumb:
http://www.geocities.com/marvel_megalomaniac/headmen/headmen.html
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
My top ten would have to be
1. Kingpin's Criminal Organization
2. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants
3. The Pride
4. The Hellfire Club
5. HYDRA
6. Ultimate Liberators
7. The New Thunderbolts
8. The Horsemen of Apocalypse
9. The Marauders
1. Kingpin's Criminal Organization
2. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants
3. The Pride
4. The Hellfire Club
5. HYDRA
6. Ultimate Liberators
7. The New Thunderbolts
8. The Horsemen of Apocalypse
9. The Marauders
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
Kingpin's organization isn't really a super villain group, its more of regular mafia group, who once and a while has super villains on contract, a super villain group has to have more then one super villain as a member at all times and since Kingpin is the only super villain employed there at all times, it doesn't really count. Likewise Hydra is not a super villain group, its a terrorist group that sometimes has super villains on contract, but its more of group of mooks with a kinda super villain as leader (I mean I guess Baron Strucker is a super villain) then a group of super villains coming together. Sorry if that seems like nitpicking. I think most your choices are good.
I will say in general I would agree with Marvel's top choice on the list. Now a lot of people dismiss the Masters of Evil, because they have a silly name, granted that is true, but the siege of the Avengers Mansion was one of the most impressive things I have seen a super villain group do.
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
That list makes me realize.... super villain groups suck and villains are much more interesting solo.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Generally I absolutely agree.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
I didn't. I thought you thought I was trying to debate you.
This is because Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are kind of retarded in their understanding of threat development.The Overlord said:
They pit the Fantastic Four against armor plated dictator douche bags, mind controlling doll masters and communist super-apes and then think the Frightful Four is a good idea for a new villain.
Even they know this, as is evidenced by the time they brought back Dr. Doom just because they could, despite the fact that he was shot into space. However, to their credit, Galactus didn't appear until 12 issues AFTER the Retarded Four.
SSJmole
Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
That's kinda unfair, one are saying there have never been any good stories with a villain team or that there aren't villains who don't work work better in a team setting (like Baron Zemo or most Flash villains).
I mean if the avengers are a team of heroes, it only makes sense that someone in the opposition would set up a team to oppose them and it makes sense that ultimately it won't work because villains are selfish and often psychotic. I mean in real life the best criminals are the ones who get together and work as group, instead of being individuals.
Plus look at the flash, he is so powerful that only one or two his villains can pose a solo threat, the rest have to get together in a team to pose a threat, so they have to join in a team to stand a chance, so there is an in story reason for them to work.
Plus one of the story beenfits of a super villain group is you can have interesting interactions from "evil" characters who normally don't hang out together. Watching a bunch of disfunctional people trying to get along and failing is just fun.
SSJmole
Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
I believe E is putting that as this sites Tagline/Welcome message after the name change.
