Ultimate Comics: Ultimates by Jonathan Hickman (spoilers)

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If the road to get here had been smoother I might be more excited. I love Hickman, but I have no reason to think it won't be more change-for-the-sake-of-change.
 

Bass

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Re: Jonathan Hickman to write Ultimate Comics: Ultimates

Exactly my thoughts.

I hope it's good.
 

Mattimeo84

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Re: Jonathan Hickman to write Ultimate Comics: Ultimates

Ultimate Comics: Ultimates? And when this series runs its course, will the next one be Ultimate Comics: Ultimate Ultimates?
 

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Re: Jonathan Hickman to write Ultimate Comics: Ultimates

This might as well become the discussion thread for the series.

Did anyone else read it? I was pleasantly surprised by Ribic's art - I didn't care for his House of M covers but this is much better. The story itself feels like Ultimates of old and not the recent garbage we've been fed. It's just one issue of course but at least it starts well.

I particularly liked the new Jarvis scene. I couldn't imagine a better way to handle that.
 

Mattimeo84

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I really liked it, it felt like nothing really changed, that this was the real Ultimates 3 and that loeb was just a very scary collective bad dream. I have been pleasantly surprised by most if not all the post Ultimatum comics.

And the Jarvis scene was a perfect intro to an otherwise now worthless character.
 

DIrishB

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This was quite a breath of nostalgic fresh-air. Great combination of old school Ultimates tone and feel, but also packed with lots of intriguing set-up and new ideas. Like where Hickman's taking this, and loving the tight continuity between this and Ult Hawkeye (which wasn't quite as good, but it's a smaller scale and doesn't have the same grandiose epic feel as the team book).
 

Captain Canuck

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apparently Spider-Woman is going to be in issue #5 in December. I may have to pick this book up, especially if she's going to be a regular.
 

the watcher

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apparently Spider-Woman is going to be in issue #5 in December. I may have to pick this book up, especially if she's going to be a regular.

Yeah, she's a member of the Ultimates now. With Peter dead and since she remembers everything that Peter remembered, to the point of her "birth". I don't see them gettin' rid of her any time soon.
 

Bass

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I've read #1 and #2 and it's kinda annoying for two reasons:

The first reason is that Hickman is clearly undoing all of Loeb's work and some of Millar's later work. This is a good thing as those stories were terrible, it's just annoying because we can't just have good, new stories, we have to first wade through the crappy environment to get something good out of it. It's annoying that Hickman has to take a moment to explain how Tony can have a new Jarvis, how there can be a Captain Britain at all, and so on, when I'd rather see Hickman just do what he wants because the guy's fun to read. He shouldn't have to apologise for other writers' mistakes.

The second reason that I find it annoying is that THE REPUBLIC IS BURNING is way, way too sci-fi. One of the things that made the Ultimate comics so unique was that they felt very much in today's world. They felt like very contemporary versions of the characters. The drawback to this is that they can be a bit dated in hindsight (as is the case with Hulk wanting Freddie Prinze Jr) but they still feel contemporary. Hickman's Ultimates could take place on Yargzon XII in the Jingitaxis Nebula without missing a beat. It's arcane as hell. Yes, some political elements are mentioned but they are so irrelevant and undefined it could be anything. This is fine for FF where we've got cross-dimensional Reed Richards and time-travelling Inhumans and Kree invasions and everything. The FF is supposed to be sci-fi and his sci-fi in THE ULTIMATES is good sci-fi (the Dome is a nice ultimization of Terminus from Byrne's FANTASTIC FOUR), I do like it. But it feels wholly inappropriate for THE ULTIMATES. It feels more like RED WING.

It's good stuff, but it's not THE ULTIMATES. Maybe THE AUTHORITY. Maybe, once he's done clearing the deck and he's building his own Ultimate team, maybe he'll turn it down but I seriously doubt it. I just hope I can acclimatize to the crazy sci-fi in a title called THE ULTIMATES.
 
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DIrishB

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I've read #1 and #2 and it's kinda annoying for two reasons:

The first reason is that Hickman is clearly undoing all of Loeb's work and some of Millar's later work. This is a good thing as those stories were terrible, it's just annoying because we can't just have good, new stories, we have to first wade through the crappy environment to get something good out of it. It's annoying that Hickman has to take a moment to explain how Tony can have a new Jarvis, how there can be a Captain Britain at all, and so on, when I'd rather see Hickman just do what he wants because the guy's fun to read. He shouldn't have to apologise for other writers' mistakes.

The second reason that I find it annoying is that THE REPUBLIC IS BURNING is way, way too sci-fi. One of the things that made the Ultimate comics so unique was that they felt very much in today's world. They felt like very contemporary versions of the characters. The drawback to this is that they can be a bit dated in hindsight (as is the case with Hulk wanting Freddie Prinze Jr) but they still feel contemporary. Hickman's Ultimates could take place on Yargzon XII in the Jingitaxis Nebula without missing a beat. It's arcane as hell. Yes, some political elements are mentioned but they are so irrelevant and undefined it could be anything. This is fine for FF where we've got cross-dimensional Reed Richards and time-travelling Inhumans and Kree invasions and everything. The FF is supposed to be sci-fi and his sci-fi in THE ULTIMATES is good sci-fi (the Dome is a nice ultimization of Terminus from Byrne's FANTASTIC FOUR), I do like it. But it feels wholly inappropriate for THE ULTIMATES. It feels more like RED WING.

It's good stuff, but it's not THE ULTIMATES. Maybe THE AUTHORITY. Maybe, once he's done clearing the deck and he's building his own Ultimate team, maybe he'll turn it down but I seriously doubt it. I just hope I can acclimatize to the crazy sci-fi in a title called THE ULTIMATES.
I agree in part about the sci-fi elements, but in retrospect, ALL of the sci-fi stuff is tied into Reed's Dome. Reed being the reason and crux point for that higher element of sci-fi in the title makes sense, at least to a point. There is a line in the sand that shouldn't be crossed, but in my opinion, it hasn't happened yet.

As for the undoing previous writers stuff, I agree it'd be nice just to get the story he wanted to tell, but as part of the Ultimate line's "more cohesive continuity" (which I personally am a fan of), I understand his need to explain these changes.

And again, I'm loving Reed as a villain. As far as I'm concerned, he's the biggest threat the Ultimate universe has ever faced, yes, even bigger than Gah Lak Tus or Magneto, if only because Reed was smart enough to stop them in part previously, but there's no one smarter or more technologically capable than him. I appreciated Hickman's Dome idea (even if it was borrowed and been done before) and it seemed like a perfectly logical outlet of Reed's plan for "benevolent" world domination. I mean, for God's sake, they killed Odin and most of Asgard!
 

Captain Canuck

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Hickman is clearly undoing all of Loeb's work and some of Millar's later work. This is a good thing as those stories were terrible, it's just annoying because we can't just have good, new stories, we have to first wade through the crappy environment to get something good out of it. It's annoying that Hickman has to take a moment to explain how Tony can have a new Jarvis
To be fair, Tony had a new Jarvis in the first issue of New Ultimates. So Loeb did it first.

On the second page he says "My new 'Jarvis' makes a dirty martini that sparks. She's sexy too. Asian. 23. 24. And apparently doesn't mind me calling her 'Jarvis' even thought her name is Linda."
 

Bass

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I agree in part about the sci-fi elements, but in retrospect, ALL of the sci-fi stuff is tied into Reed's Dome. Reed being the reason and crux point for that higher element of sci-fi in the title makes sense, at least to a point. There is a line in the sand that shouldn't be crossed, but in my opinion, it hasn't happened yet.

As for the undoing previous writers stuff, I agree it'd be nice just to get the story he wanted to tell, but as part of the Ultimate line's "more cohesive continuity" (which I personally am a fan of), I understand his need to explain these changes.

And again, I'm loving Reed as a villain. As far as I'm concerned, he's the biggest threat the Ultimate universe has ever faced, yes, even bigger than Gah Lak Tus or Magneto, if only because Reed was smart enough to stop them in part previously, but there's no one smarter or more technologically capable than him. I appreciated Hickman's Dome idea (even if it was borrowed and been done before) and it seemed like a perfectly logical outlet of Reed's plan for "benevolent" world domination. I mean, for God's sake, they killed Odin and most of Asgard!
How do you know the Maker is Reed?

As for the killing of Odin and Asgard: again, this is Hickman getting rid of the Asgardians. It's clear (look at how he dispenses with Hela) that Hickman is not up for having the Asgardians in the Ultimate-verse (which I agree with) and so he has to get rid of them. Unless this is going to 'reset' at the end of the arc. But while I agree there shouldn't be Asgardians running around being ridiculous, I also don't think we should have super sci-fi of thousand-year old cities built in five minutes.

To be fair, Tony had a new Jarvis in the first issue of New Ultimates. So Loeb did it first.

On the second page he says "My new 'Jarvis' makes a dirty martini that sparks. She's sexy too. Asian. 23. 24. And apparently doesn't mind me calling her 'Jarvis' even thought her name is Linda."
I had forgotten/never read that. But in that case, Hickman's Jarvis is a man, not a woman called Linda, so again, he has to point out that this is Jarvis-but-not-Jarvis because of continuity.

I like Hickman's work, I think he has talent, and it annoys me that he has to keep stopping to 'undo' previous writer's mistakes. It's like how in Whedon's ASTONISHING X-MEN he has to stop in one issue and explain (he does it rather well though) that almost all mutants have lost their powers due to HOUSE OF M. It always irks me that this awesome X-Men story I'm enjoying suddenly has to remind me of some crappy crossover.
 
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Captain Canuck

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I just read Whedon's Astonishing X-Men last week, and i don't remember the mention of House of M. You're probably right though. There was also a scene that deals with the fact that Fury isn't the head of SHIELD anymore after Secret War.
 

DIrishB

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How do you know the Maker is Reed?
Ultimate Fallout #4 reveals Reed makes it back from the N-Zone where he was left at the end of the boring Ultimate Doom trilogy. It also sets up his creating the Dome and a bit of his motivations for what he's doing.

As for the killing of Odin and Asgard: again, this is Hickman getting rid of the Asgardians. It's clear (look at how he dispenses with Hela) that Hickman is not up for having the Asgardians in the Ultimate-verse (which I agree with) and so he has to get rid of them. Unless this is going to 'reset' at the end of the arc. But while I agree there shouldn't be Asgardians running around being ridiculous, I also don't think we should have super sci-fi of thousand-year old cities built in five minutes.
In terms of the sci-fi elements of the Dome, I'd agree except for the fact high sci-fi is intrinsic to the character of Reed/Doom/Whatever-He's-Called-Now, and its a nice change of pace for the Ultimates to face someone like Reed after the team infighting and Chitauri in Vol. 1 and the traitor and invasion of America in Vol. 2. And, well, honestly, I like the idea of Reed using his intelligence and super-advanced-technology to pose a credible threat to the Ultimates, as opposed to just the standard super-hero vs. super-villain beat-down epics the climaxes of the Ultimate books usually become (not that there's anything wrong with that, but it'll be nice to see a change).

Its still anyone's guess to where Hickman's going, so I don't want to make any presumptions, but I'm excited to see where he's taking the title, even considering the changes and reasons for doing so.
 

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