The Legend of Zelda General Discussion (Spoilers may apply)

[Captain Canuck]

Here's Part 1 of an awesome documentary done by GameTrailers on the Legend of Zelda timeline.

[video=youtube;fgzPeVe5P0Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgzPeVe5P0Q[/video]

 

[Captain Canuck]

Part 2:

[video=youtube;IxXuOpk2f54]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxXuOpk2f54[/video]

 

[Captain Canuck]

Part 3:

[video=youtube;mmINMVQNCw8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmINMVQNCw8[/video]

 

[Friday]

I believe I read A Link to the Past was the "worst game" Miyamoto said he made. Not sure...

Either way, I'd say Wind Waker. I love that game so much. Replayed it so many times and can't wait to get a WiiU and replay the HD version.

Nope.

You MUST be thinking of Link's Adventure.

Also nope.

Yep, he did. But I think his issues with it were related to the shortcomings of the hardware, so he wasn't able to do some of the stuff he wanted. And even then, the examples he gave were basically performance-based, like he didn't like how long it took for scenes to switch. I don't think he said anything bad about the story or anything like that.

Still nope.

It was Zelda II: Link's Adventure. It was my first Zelda game and I've got an unhealthy love for it.

Source

Yeah that's the explanation given by Zelda "historians", but it's a cop out either way. Still great games overall, however.

Captain Canuck, I do believe a large number of old Gameboy/GB Color and Gameboy Advance games are available on Wii U's download service. It'd be cool if they even worked on some emulator software for the Wii U to start releasing Nintendo DS (and even 3DS) games on Wii U. It wouldn't be that difficult considering the two screens of the DS could essentially be adapted to have the top/main gameplay screen as on the main television screen, and the bottom on the Wii U controller screen with the DS's pen use adapted to the touch screen feature.

I could be wrong as I don't own a Wii U and haven't checked out my buddy's in a few months.

No handhelds games are on the Wii U but they're ALL on the 3DS. The Wii U is a little light on the virtual console service right now but it only launched a few months ago for it. Before that all you could do is transfer your Wii Purchased games over onto your Wii U. I never had a Wii so I'm just waiting on a lot of games to become available. Secret of Mana I'm looking at you.

I just found out that all the old handheld games are downloadable for the 3DS. Problem solved. Maybe I'll pick one of those up eventually...

Yeah, my 3DS is a Zelda Machine. Its got The Legend of Zelda, Zelda II: The Adventures of Link, Link's Adventure, The Minish Cap, Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons. I'm playing through Seasons right now and I'll be doing Ages after. I never had the former and never beat the latter.

So since we've got a Zelda thread I've got to know. And I alone on disliking Majora's Mask? I don't think its a bad game, I just think its a bad Zelda game. And it game us Tingle... If it had just been Majora's Mask and used the Ocarina of Time Engine without being a "Zelda" game I think I'd be a lot warmer to it.

 

[Lithium]

Nope.

So since we've got a Zelda thread I've got to know. And I alone on disliking Majora's Mask? I don't think its a bad game, I just think its a bad Zelda game. And it game us Tingle... If it had just been Majora's Mask and used the Ocarina of Time Engine without being a "Zelda" game I think I'd be a lot warmer to it.

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda Game, and one of my favorite games ever. I love that they took a chance, brought the console franchise away from Hyrule (the mobile games are almost never in hyrule of course) and stayed away from the standard Zelda formula (beginning dungeons, distinct "halfway" point, another set of dungeons, final boss). I also believe it to be the strongest Zelda from a storytelling and thematic perspective. The sad story of Termina was markedly different in tone from any of the other games in the franchise, and I believe that was to its' advantage.

Then again, Ocarina of Time isn't even in my top 5 Zelda games so maybe I'm just crazy.

 

[Ice]

You both are crazy.

I love Majora's Mask and OoT is always Top 5 no matter what! NO MATTER WHAT!! :crazy:

 

[Friday]

I found the time limit in MM to be extremely frustrating. I always had to go HERE and do THIS and I had at most forty three minutes to do it in. I never got to spend time exploring. Hell, I can think of areas in Windwaker or OoT that I spent over an hour exploring and I don't mean the dungeons.

Like I said, I don't think it was a bad game, I just don't think that it fit the franchise and would have been better served as a stand alone game in its own right.

 

[E]

Then again, Ocarina of Time isn't even in my top 5 Zelda games so maybe I'm just crazy.

Me either. I never had a Nintendo 64 so I didn't even play it until the Zelda Collector's Edition disc that came out for Gamecube, and once I did I was underwhelmed based on what I'd heard of it. Not that it's bad or boring or anything like that...it just didn't really do anything for me.

Wind Waker is probably my favorite. I loved Zelda 2 for NES but it was so hard I never got very far with it.

 

[Lithium]

Me either. I never had a Nintendo 64 so I didn't even play it until the Zelda Collector's Edition disc that came out for Gamecube, and once I did I was underwhelmed based on what I'd heard of it. Not that it's bad or boring or anything like that...it just didn't really do anything for me.

I adore Ocarina of Time, but I dislike that it became the standard 'framework' that the rest of the series had to follow. This is a problem for the Zelda franchise in general, and to some extent Nintendo as a whole. A lack of innovation I suppose. While Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword (to a lesser extent) each had their own added mechanics, it is clear that they borrowed heavily from OoT. In my opinion all three do what Ocarina did, but better. I mean, going purely off of nostalgia sure OoT is the best, and from an innovation standpoint as well, but the refinement found in the later console releases trumps OoT, and gameplay is one of (if not) the most important aspects of a game.

I like it when franchises are willing to experiment and change the formula both in story and in gameplay. That's why Majora's Mask is my favorite, and that is why I love almost all of the handheld titles and hold Links Awakening, Oracle of Ages, and Spirit Tracks in very high regard.

As a sidenote, I love Skyward Sword and everything new that it brought, but I hate motion controls because they are often too hard for me (being physically disabled). This is why I don't hold it in such high regard specifically.

 

[DIrishB]

I adore Ocarina of Time, but I dislike that it became the standard 'framework' that the rest of the series had to follow. This is a problem for the Zelda franchise in general, and to some extent Nintendo as a whole. A lack of innovation I suppose.

That's a very interesting and valid point. While Nintendo has been successfully innovative as heck in terms of their approach to console and handheld controls (Wii/Wii U and 3DS, all the way back to the original Gameboy...we'll overlook the Virtual Boy and Power Glove), they do seem to lack that innovation in terms of game design in their major franchise releases.

Perhaps they're taking a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" view, but I doubt that's really it. The Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other major Nintendo franchises certainly have a formulaic appeal, which is what fans like (to a degree), but it's also a given fans would enjoy new and successfully implemented approaches to certain aspects of those series. It's a tough balance, for sure.

While Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword (to a lesser extent) each had their own added mechanics, it is clear that they borrowed heavily from OoT. In my opinion all three do what Ocarina did, but better. I mean, going purely off of nostalgia sure OoT is the best, and from an innovation standpoint as well, but the refinement found in the later console releases trumps OoT, and gameplay is one of (if not) the most important aspects of a game.

I like it when franchises are willing to experiment and change the formula both in story and in gameplay. That's why Majora's Mask is my favorite, and that is why I love almost all of the handheld titles and hold Links Awakening, Oracle of Ages, and Spirit Tracks in very high regard.

As a sidenote, I love Skyward Sword and everything new that it brought, but I hate motion controls because they are often too hard for me (being physically disabled). This is why I don't hold it in such high regard specifically.

Also very good points. I agree with the motion controls, specifically the Wii-mote. Metroid Other M had some of the worst executed game controls, requiring constantly shifting the Wii remote from aiming at the TV to playing on it sideways (like the older Nintendo remotes). It was a chore, and drew away from my (and others based on reviews) enjoyment of the game...besides the weak story/characterization that turned Samus from a badass Ellen Ripley like character to a stereotypical anime female.

 

[Friday]

I adore Ocarina of Time, but I dislike that it became the standard 'framework' that the rest of the series had to follow. This is a problem for the Zelda franchise in general, and to some extent Nintendo as a whole. A lack of innovation I suppose. While Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword (to a lesser extent) each had their own added mechanics, it is clear that they borrowed heavily from OoT. In my opinion all three do what Ocarina did, but better. I mean, going purely off of nostalgia sure OoT is the best, and from an innovation standpoint as well, but the refinement found in the later console releases trumps OoT, and gameplay is one of (if not) the most important aspects of a game.

I would say that A Link to the Past is what set the framework. It was the first game we had with multiple worlds that you'd travel between, which were unlocked after the early set of dungeons. It also introduced most of the equipment that we associate with Zelda. The Hookshot, Link clearly has an Ocarina, which I cannot spell, bottles, catching faeries in the bottles, ect. Don't overlook it because of the graphics. The Gameplay was set there. Ocarina of Time was the 3D graphics implementation of the exact same structure used in ALttP. Plus it was the backstory of ALttP.

Yes, I know all the zelda historia stuff, but it is. As for the little differences, they don't bother me. It lines up enough. Thats also one of the reasons I loved Wind Waker more than most people seemed to. It was a proper sequel to OoT.

Man, I like the less popular ones, don't I? Zelda II, Wind Waker...

 

[Lithium]

I would say that A Link to the Past is what set the framework. It was the first game we had with multiple worlds that you'd travel between, which were unlocked after the early set of dungeons. It also introduced most of the equipment that we associate with Zelda. The Hookshot, Link clearly has an Ocarina, which I cannot spell, bottles, catching faeries in the bottles, ect. Don't overlook it because of the graphics. The Gameplay was set there. Ocarina of Time was the 3D graphics implementation of the exact same structure used in ALttP. Plus it was the backstory of ALttP.

You are most definitely correct about this. I just think that there are also so many things that OoT started that are now integral parts of the 3d Zeldas. Z-targeting for example. Storytelling-wise, OoT was also the source for several things, like the companion character that has been in every game since (although an argument could be made for Sahasrahla in ALttP, but he didn't follow you around the entire game). I would argue the later games pull almost equally from both.

 

[Captain Canuck]

As a sidenote, I love Skyward Sword and everything new that it brought, but I hate motion controls because they are often too hard for me (being physically disabled). This is why I don't hold it in such high regard specifically.

Huh, I had never thought of that. I really enjoy the motion control, especially on Skyward Sword. Having to swing the wiimote in a precise direction was a cool game mechanic and added a little bit of realism to the game for me. But yeah, that would be frustrating if you are disabled.

Do you mind if I ask what your disability is/is caused by? (I don't know if that's the proper way to phrase that... I'm sorry if I came across as ignorant. Although I suppose I am rather ignorant when it comes to disability.)

 

[Friday]

I still haven't played Skyward Sword. I never had a Wii and I've got a Wii U now but I don't want to drop the money on a Wii Motion Plus Wiimote, a Nunchaku, and the game. Its like another $100 just to play it.

 

[Lithium]

Do you mind if I ask what your disability is/is caused by? (I don't know if that's the proper way to phrase that... I'm sorry if I came across as ignorant. Although I suppose I am rather ignorant when it comes to disability.)

I don't mind at all. I have mild cerebral palsy. The vast majority of cases are much more severe than mine, and often result in the afflicted being wheelchair bound and have symptoms of mental retardation as well. For me it manifests itself in the motor skills of my left side being severely hindered. My left hand for instance has the motor skills of a 5 year old probably, so obviously it has adverse effects in all sorts of everyday aspects of my life.

In terms of gaming, I can use regular controllers such as an Xbox or playstation controller because they use both hands, meaning my right hand is there for support. I can also play pc games using a keyboard and mouse, although I am admittedly not very good at them because my left hand will press the wrong keys from time to time. The wii and other motion controls are extremely hard for me because my left hand does not have the motor skills to grasp a wiimote or nunchuck and perform the correct motions or use the buttons. As you can imagine, Skyward Sword and other wii motion plus games are particularly difficult in this regard simply because of the increased precision of control. In order to even play skyward sword I can to create an apparatus to make the controls easier for me. There is a foundation called able gamers that I have helped with in the past that aims to improve and enable gaming for the physically disabled.

So, while I still enjoyed Skyward Sword to an extent, the ability to use a GameCube or other control would have made the experience infinitely better for me.

 

[Ice]

 

[Captain Canuck]

I don't mind at all. I have mild cerebral palsy. The vast majority of cases are much more severe than mine, and often result in the afflicted being wheelchair bound and have symptoms of mental retardation as well. For me it manifests itself in the motor skills of my left side being severely hindered. My left hand for instance has the motor skills of a 5 year old probably, so obviously it has adverse effects in all sorts of everyday aspects of my life.

In terms of gaming, I can use regular controllers such as an Xbox or playstation controller because they use both hands, meaning my right hand is there for support. I can also play pc games using a keyboard and mouse, although I am admittedly not very good at them because my left hand will press the wrong keys from time to time. The wii and other motion controls are extremely hard for me because my left hand does not have the motor skills to grasp a wiimote or nunchuck and perform the correct motions or use the buttons. As you can imagine, Skyward Sword and other wii motion plus games are particularly difficult in this regard simply because of the increased precision of control. In order to even play skyward sword I can to create an apparatus to make the controls easier for me. There is a foundation called able gamers that I have helped with in the past that aims to improve and enable gaming for the physically disabled.

So, while I still enjoyed Skyward Sword to an extent, the ability to use a GameCube or other control would have made the experience infinitely better for me.

Thanks for sharing that. I have to admit, I had never even considered that the motion controls would be frustrating with someone who didn't have full mobility in their arms.

Did you actually build an apparatus for using the wiimote and nun-chuck?

 

[Ice]

Back in 2007, a CG movie of The Legend of Zelda was proposed to Nintendo, whom declined the offer.

[video=youtube;E2d2SLjW-eI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2d2SLjW-eI[/video]

 

[Captain Canuck]

Nice. I would have seen it.

 

[Ice]

I was impressed with that. I would've liked to see more before a definite yes myself, but that's awesome by itself.

 

[Friday]

Wind Waker HD is reminding me how much i love this game. It may be my favorite 3D Zelda.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Kinda hard to do a Zelda movie with a protagonist who doesn't talk.

 

[E]

Kinda hard to do a Zelda movie with a protagonist who doesn't talk.

It would work if they make it so he only ever has to say "HUP HUP CHEYAH!"

 

[Ephemeral]

Wind Waker HD is reminding me how much i love this game. It may be my favorite 3D Zelda.

I have to agree with this assessment. The thing looks simply stunning in HD. They've done a fine job with this remake!

 

[DIrishB]

My buddy is a huge Zelda fan and also is loving the Wii U remake of Wind Waker. I've personally never been into Zelda all that much.

Which leads me to my next rant: Nintendo, y u no makey a new Metroid?!? Whyyyyyyyyyyyy?!?

 

[wyokid]

I have to agree with this assessment. The thing looks simply stunning in HD. They've done a fine job with this remake!

I'm playing it right now. Just beat the Tower of the Gods. Currently watching Link get the Master Sword. I'm curious on how easy they've made the Triforce collecting though because I LOVED it in the original.

My buddy is a huge Zelda fan and also is loving the Wii U remake of Wind Waker. I've personally never been into Zelda all that much.

Which leads me to my next rant: Nintendo, y u no makey a new Metroid?!? Whyyyyyyyyyyyy?!?

Rumor is that Retro Studios is working on one as we speak.

 

[DIrishB]

Rumor is that Retro Studios is working on one as we speak.

Yeah I've heard that...but it's only rumor so far. That's like being stuck in the middle of the Sahara and hearing a rumor about a lake of Samus-flavored water...

...but I'm still thirsty!

 

[Captain Canuck]

I need to go back and finish Windwaker (Not HD). I left it a while ago.

It would work if they make it so he only ever has to say "HUP HUP CHEYAH!"

hahaha

 

[Ephemeral]

Which leads me to my next rant: Nintendo, y u no makey a new Metroid?!? Whyyyyyyyyyyyy?!?

I couldn't agree more. I've a hankering for a new Metroid game!

I'm playing it right now. Just beat the Tower of the Gods. Currently watching Link get the Master Sword. I'm curious on how easy they've made the Triforce collecting though because I LOVED it in the original.

Wow. I thought I was the only living person who didn't mind the Triforce quest in the GC version. I found it quite fun (and even a little relaxing) to sail around looking for all the pieces required. It was so gratifying when I finally put them all together! YESSS. :mrgreen:

Yeah I've heard that...but it's only rumor so far. That's like being stuck in the middle of the Sahara and hearing a rumor about a lake of Samus-flavored water...

...but I'm still thirsty!

Ah ha ha ha! I couldn't have put it better myself!

 

[wyokid]

The biggest complaint for Wind Waker I ever hear is how much sailing you do and I never got that because I love doing it. Especially on Wii U where the whole ocean is loaded.