Deadly Shooting at Virgina Tech

The original quote escaped me. But, how would you say they differ significantly? :?

Don't mess with him, he's a writer :wink:

But I still fail to see real evidence of it.

Just look around anywhere, read any part of a newspaper and there's always stuff like this going on. Like I said, it's slowly creeping in and we're in the stage of not really caring i.e. ohmeegee, some kids got shot at a college. ten minutes later, you could care less. After that it gets to the point to where we get used to it and it stops bothering us. Do you remember all the televised stuff for columbine or 9/11? That barely happened today and even when those amish kids went on a rampage. There was no 24 hour coverage simply because the media no longer deems it exclusive or what have you. People are just starting not to care. Seriously ask yourself if you give two ****s about it and if you are, are you willing to do something about it?

I guarantee the answer is no. In a month we won't care anymore.
 
Just look around anywhere, read any part of a newspaper and there's always stuff like this going on. Like I said, it's slowly creeping in and we're in the stage of not really caring i.e. ohmeegee, some kids got shot at a college. ten minutes later, you could care less. After that it gets to the point to where we get used to it and it stops bothering us. Do you remember all the televised stuff for columbine or 9/11? That barely happened today and even when those amish kids went on a rampage. There was no 24 hour coverage simply because the media no longer deems it exclusive or what have you. People are just starting not to care. Seriously ask yourself if you give two ****s about it and if you are, are you willing to do something about it?

I guarantee the answer is no. In a month we won't care anymore.
Well, you saved me the effort of having to contribute anything substantial -- you just basically described my own view of the situation.

The only difference now is the scope of the death, and the possibility that the killer is an international student -- a Chinese national, if rumors are to be trusted. I seriously worry now that there will be unreasonably stricter admissions rules for international students now, not to mention the kind of racial profiling and everyday hassles that become an imperative to maintain the appearance of security, after events like these happen.
 
do you see the wink?

Alright then.

compound said:
Well, you saved me the effort of having to contribute anything substantial -- you just basically described my own view of the situation.

The only difference now is the scope of the death, and the possibility that the killer is an international student -- a Chinese national, if rumors are to be trusted. I seriously worry now that there will be unreasonably stricter admissions rules for international students now, not to mention the kind of racial profiling and everyday hassles that become an imperative to maintain the appearance of security, after events like these happen.

It depends on how the media and the public react to the situation over the long run. Personally, I think it'd be ridiculous if they made it more difficult for international students to come here. But, who knows? If there's one thing America has regretfully become, it's intolerant against foreigners.
 
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The merits (or lack thereof) of the 2nd amendment and its interpretation in many United States Supreme Court decisions are a fascinating topic which I will refrain from addressing on a comic book forum, even in a thread devoted to off-topic commentary. There are two things I don't like to argue on the Internet: politics and religion. The 2nd Amendment fits in the former category but inspires levels of passion usually reserved for the latter.
Well said. That and this:
Well now, this conversation is just lovely. I think the thread should be locked before this turns into an epic argument.
mean that I'm going to say right now that everyone better be on their best behaviour. I won't lock it but we'll be keeping a close eye on this thread when the inevitable debate begins. This is a subject some people feel really strongly about, both for and against and its quite often linked to very personal tragedies. So everyone posting in this thread, please have a little respect for everyone else, and remember that this is the internet and there might be something you don't know. It'd be pretty awkward to say something controversial and find someone was related to one of the Columbine victims or something. Just play it cool guys: I know you can argue like adults, I've seen it.

In class today the girl next to me gasp after seeing the news on the computer, apparently she has some friends there
I think the reactions of a lot of people do point very strongly to the desensitization that someone I forgot to quote mentioned: very few of the places I've seen around the internet have waited to say "Our thoughts are with everyone affected" before diving straight into the morality and arguments about gun control. Does anyone know if we have anyone on UC from Virginia? I can't think of anyone offhand but I don't pay too much attention to where.

The truth is that this kind of thing doesn't happen the most in America. There are many many countries all over the world where many many more people are shot and killed than in America. If it happens in America, it just gets more attention, because of how America is thought of by our world as being the greatest, safest country to live in. None the less, it is a very very sad day. They will all be in my prayers.
I'm going to be honest: I don't believe you. If you would like to prove me wrong, I'd welcome it, but from everything I've seen, read and heard, the U.S. is the site of the vast majority of the world's gun-related crimes and murders. The simple fact that people can get their hands on them easily means that its easier to commit crimes with them.

As somebody who has never fired a real gun in my life, has no plans to, and won't even register to carry one despite the vast wage increase in my profession if I were to do so, I think my stance on the 2nd amendment and gun laws in this country is pretty clear. But I'm with Sam, I have no interest in debating whatsoever. The laws are what they are and my personal opinion means squat to either Springfield or Washington DC.
One thing I never understand, when I have this debate with Americans, is why nobody I've spoken to about it seems to be willing to bite the bullet and admit they like their guns.

In Australia, gun possession is regulated to within an inch of its life. The majority of firearms, including automatic weapons, are outlawed entirely and as a rule, only the smaller varieties are permitted in certain situations. Police carry small pistols - in New Zealand, I don't think they even do that - and some farmers have guns. Hunting isn't a major past time, but occasionally its a necessity, for rabbits or kangaroos. Kangaroo hunting is even kind of fun. I've fired guns, small and (illegally) large, right up to a big serious automatic rifle.

I didn't like it. Guns frighten me. Going through Singapore Airport where every security guard has a semi-automatic rifle, or even the major European airports where they're certainly evident (albeit more subtly) freaks me the hell out. I feel safer in my country knowing that it isn't easy to acquire a firearm. I don't see the validity of a lot of the arguments: I saw one today, where a woman who said she was about 5'2 would learn to use a gun if she ever moved to a big city, in case she was attacked. My reaction to that is get some mace and take kickboxing classes.

I have yet to find a use for guns that doesn't involve killing things, and, as a whole, I thought that was something we were sort of trying to discourage in the world. I don't think we can eradicate it, but that doesn't mean we don't need to try and cut down on it.

All that said though? It comes down to personal opinion. If you believe that having a gun will make you safer, or if you think that its the way to keep yourself free or even if you think its the only thing that'll save you when the aliens come, whatever. Its your choice. But too many people deny any correlation between gun ownership and gun related crime.

If you, as a society want to have guns, thats your choice. But stop denying there's a cost.

Two hours this thing lasted? That's nuts.

The excellent, inmportant, and relevent movie Elephant didn't even last that long.
That was such a good movie.
 
And now they have a name for the shooter - turns out he is a resident alien from South Korea.

Which adds some irony to people blaming this on the violence of Americans and their propensity to resort to gun violence.
 
And now they have a name for the shooter - turns out he is a resident alien from South Korea.

Which adds some irony to people blaming this on the violence of Americans and their propensity to resort to gun violence.

I just heard about that and was going to post the same thing
 
And now they have a name for the shooter - turns out he is a resident alien from South Korea.

Which adds some irony to people blaming this on the violence of Americans and their propensity to resort to gun violence.
Still doesn't disprove my statement that most of the school shootings happens in the US.
 
And now they have a name for the shooter - turns out he is a resident alien from South Korea.

Which adds some irony to people blaming this on the violence of Americans and their propensity to resort to gun violence.

but wouldn't it be double irony? Because in order for people to be able to say "Ah ha" at the people blaming Americans they too have admit they were wrong about the "He can't be identified" thing :lol:
 
Still doesn't disprove my statement that most of the school shootings happens in the US.

Look, every culture has its problems with violence. Is the US's guns? Sure. But hey, I like the odds here better than getting myself blown to smithereens going to the supermarket.

The US might have a higher percentage of gun violence, but other nations have problems with violence as well.

As for disproving your statement - I wasn't trying to. Maybe you'd care to prove it?
 
Look, every culture has its problems with violence. Is the US's guns? Sure. But hey, I like the odds here better than getting myself blown to smithereens going to the supermarket.

The US might have a higher percentage of gun violence, but other nations have problems with violence as well.

As for disproving your statement - I wasn't trying to. Maybe you'd care to prove it?
I don't think that Americans are worse than most countries when it comes to violence. However the problem is that the US is one of the countries where it is easiest to get hold of a gun. So if you are a complete psycho you can do damage to others both fast and easy. As for proving that most school shootings happens in the US? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting Scroll down to "Notable school shootings". (And no I didn't think you were trying to disprove my statement. Just pointed out that it didn't)
 
Look, every culture has its problems with violence. Is the US's guns? Sure. But hey, I like the odds here better than getting myself blown to smithereens going to the supermarket.
Virginia and Gaza: not exactly comparing apples and apples.
 
The original quote escaped me. But, how would you say they differ significantly? :?

DISCLAIMER:

Before I address the question, I want to make it clear that neither this argument, nor the original statement that it supports, is or was intended to be a personal attack. Misquotes are one of my pet peeves, especially when the misquote alters the meaning of the original. (Thus I have no real problem with "We don't need no stinking badges" vs. "We don't need no badges" or "Play it again, Sam" vs. "Play it, Sam.") I apologize for the snide tone of the original statement. Furthermore, I'd like to stress that I am not making a judgment regarding the value of guns, gun ownership, or restricting gun ownership.


/DISCLAIMER

Your version of the quotation was, "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." Similar paraphrases are not unusual, but significantly distort the meaning of the original by stripping the objects ("Liberties" and "Safety") of their qualifiers: "essential" and "a little temporary," respectively. (The original quotation again: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.") Without those qualifying words, the implication is that giving up ANY liberty whatsoever regardless of the resulting safety is unconscionable. That is clearly not Franklin's meaning.

To provide a concrete example: you give up your liberty to carry a handgun every time you enter the secured area of an airport. In return, you have a reasonable expectation of not getting shot. An equitable trade-off? If the paraphrase is taken as a maxim, you're a big ol' wuss if you think it is. It is unlikely that Franklin intended to convey the idea that no liberty should ever be given up (not "sacrificed," which carries a boatload of connotative meaning that even further warps the meaning of the original) for any reason.

Is the right to own & carry a firearm an "essential liberty" in the modern milieu? If it is, what kind and quality of safety would justify giving it up? How "temporary" and how "little" must the promised safety be before it becomes a bad trade off? Those are the arguments that the casual paraphrase too easily curtails.

And? I'm a History Major.

Neat. What's your favorite period/region? I was always fond of late Republican Rome (most of my undergrad classes focused on that subject).
 
Neat. What's your favorite period/region? I was always fond of late Republican Rome (most of my undergrad classes focused on that subject).

I'm not a history major, but last summer I set out to read biographies of the US presidents in order, but I got so fascinated by the Revolutionary era and the building of the nation I haven't left it yet! I just keep reading biographies on other luminaries of the era, such as Hamilton and Franklin, books on the war and war time, and even The Federalist papers.

(though I am making a renewed effort to finish James Monroe and get on with it)

(also: I cheated and read Truman and Eisenhower already)
 

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