Donnerverse - Timeline

selfishmisery

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Yeah, that's what I thought, but all the connections to the Reeve and Routh films are pre-crisis. For example, we get Brandon Routh, computers and Jason from Superman Returns, but "second time I've fought myself" from Superman III and Lacy Warfield from Superman IV: The Quest for Peace. I interpreted that as either the attack on the planet being rewritten or Superman no longer feeling that hope needs to cut through the darkness after getting closure.

It seems that the pre-crisis timeline is all the films, while post-crisis is pretty much the same but without Kingdom Come.

I hope we get some kind of appearance by Routh anywhere to clear this up, Arrowverse, HBO, DCEU, doesn't matter. That or confirmation of canonicity. For now, I'll keep it modern, as it just fits the bigger picture.
I'm saying the same events happened no matter what. But with pre-Crisis you ignore the older dates; whereas post-Crisis it's retconned as those 'older' dates being canon.

It's convoluted, but that's the only way I can figure that out.

If anything, Crisis is a blessing for one-note continuity errors since you can interpret certain scenes with conflicting information as "pre" or "post" Crisis.
 

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I'm saying the same events happened no matter what. But with pre-Crisis you ignore the older dates; whereas post-Crisis it's retconned as those 'older' dates being canon.

It's convoluted, but that's the only way I can figure that out.

If anything, Crisis is a blessing for one-note continuity errors since you can interpret certain scenes with conflicting information as "pre" or "post" Crisis.
True. I think that might be how I'll explain Batman 3-4 and Catwoman no longer being in Earth-89 if it contradicts those films. Simple multiversal rebirth, now Batman Returns leads into The Flash.
 

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There's not gonna be a dark age where an Earth freezes in time, they all have to be concurrent with each other. Same day, same month, same year.
Although since Superman physically turned back time by reversing the Earth's rotation in Superman I, Earth 96 should be slightly behind most other Earths where that didn't happen. XD :D ;)
 

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Although since Superman physically turned back time by reversing the Earth's rotation in Superman I, Earth 96 should be slightly behind most other Earths where that didn't happen. XD :D ;)
I take that more as time travel from his perspective in that film, where he could see the earth spin the other way and time was reversed. I know we're talking about a franchise where Superman rebuilt the wall of China by looking at it, threw his El emblem like a net (?) and threw an island made of his weakness into space though. I like to think he had an adrenaline rush that allowed him to go back in time just a few minutes, which is why he didn't stop Joker killing his friends and wife.
 

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Would you say that Earth-F (1940s Superman cartoon) is actually set in the 2000-2010s, then? I understood Earth-666, I actually personally believe that the Earth-666 scene was set in pre-crisis 2019 of that universe, but that Earth-F cameo puzzled me. Lois seems to have 1940s attire in that comic which has been released digitally as Crisis on Infinite Earths: Paragons Rising if you want to change the name in the Arrowverse timeline.
 
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selfishmisery

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Would you say that Earth-F (1940s Superman cartoon) is actually set in the 2000-2010s, then? I understood Earth-666, I actually personally believe that the Earth-666 scene was set in pre-crisis 2019 of that universe, but that Earth-F cameo puzzled me. Lois seems to have 1940s attire in that comic which has been released digitally as Crisis on Infinite Earths: Paragons Rising if you want to change the name in the Arrowverse timeline.
Yes. The same way Earth-18 looks Wild West, it's still in "present day". It's just how that world evolved.
 

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Updated with Superman II, Superman III and Supergirl.

Speaking of time travel:
Now, obviously this is just a fan explanation, but I think it's a fun read. It even manages to incorporate Superman II and Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut as apart of the same universe but different timelines, which seems reasonable, more so than Superman Returns being connected to the other Superman II sequels.

Personally, I'd rather something like this: When Superman travels back in time, his mind slowly adjusts to the new timeline, and he forgets the original. Think Flashpoint but any level of time travel he will forget. This means that Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut could happen, everyone has a sense of Déjà Vu, his mind adjusts to the new reality and he forgets, and finally the timeline repeats in the theatrical cut. Time travel is very difficult for him to do, though, and he almost dies every time he does it.

Now we have:
Superman: The Movie: Special Edition
Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
Superman II
Superman Returns
Superman III
Supergirl
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
Crisis on Infinite Earths

Oh man, this is a confusing reality thanks to Crisis. At least some of the contradictions could be explained as having happened in the different universes numbered Earth-96.
 
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Timeline complete, and includes everything. It's larger than one would think, actually.

I've changed the title to Donnerverse as that is traditionally the fan term for the continuity of the 1978-1987 series. Superman Returns is retroactively apart of that, and Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut neatly fits regardless.
 
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The Kryptonite found in Addis Ababa in the first Superman film is dated 1978 in Superman Returns, which, while wrong, does suggest that this film is set in the 1980s. It's contradicted heavily by other material in the film, and would be ignored if the film were isolated from the other films, but combined with those, it shows that Superman Returns can take place in the 1980s.
 

selfishmisery

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The Kryptonite found in Addis Ababa in the first Superman film is dated 1978 in Superman Returns, which, while wrong, does suggest that this film is set in the 1980s. It's contradicted heavily by other material in the film, and would be ignored if the film were isolated from the other films, but combined with those, it shows that Superman Returns can take place in the 1980s.
Lois Lane would probably be in her 70s married to still young-looking Superman by the time Joker gassed the Daily Planet pre-Crisis......
Perry White would be 90s too.

Not sure how to feel about that....
 

selfishmisery

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I'm not disagreeing with you btw, I see your evidence plain and clear.

I'm just thinking about what this all results to...
 

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Lois Lane would probably be in her 70s married to still young-looking Superman by the time Joker gassed the Daily Planet pre-Crisis......
Perry White would be 90s too.

Not sure how to feel about that....
Lois is a child in 1965. Let's assume 12, could be less. 1953 + 47 = 1995. Lois would be 47 in 1995, which is where humanity is at in their calendar, even though the universe was created at the same time as the worlds set in 2020. We could assume that maybe she died in 1990 along with the rest of the planet, which is only 5 years after Superman IV: The Quest for Peace. That means shes 42. Clark is 47 (ignoring time spent between Krypton exploding and reaching earth).

Perry White is probably 70s-80s.
I'm not disagreeing with you btw, I see your evidence plain and clear.

I'm just thinking about what this all results to...
That's completely fair. You can only do so much when they didn't care to explain continuity. As said in the Crisis on Infinite Earths Giant/Paragons Rising book, create your own explanations. They decided to make Superman III canon to Superman Returns, so now Superman Returns is set in the past. I feel more comfortable moving Superman Returns to the past than Superman III etc. to the present. Just the plot of Superman III revolving around clearly 1980s technology being "high-tech" seems off. I guess the technology in Superman Returns isn't widely available to the public, and can occasionally be faulty, so they decided to ditch it.

Hopefully we get anything regarding this version of Superman that either separates the Routh and Reeve versions into separate universes where the first two films happen, or they embrace this shared narrative.

I decided to treat this world like Earth-F and Earth-18. While this universe considers itself 1995, it's 2019-2020 in actuality, only the calendar started 25 years earlier.
 
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Brandon Routh liked this comment. Seemingly coincidental that the person who made this comment started the rumour that DC were discussing a post-crisis television series on this version of the character.
I don't know if I personally believe him, but it's nice that Brandon Routh likes the idea.

I'd rather not get my hopes up, but maybe DC Fandome will have a little surprise announcement?
 
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I changed it to Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut. It may be a television cut, but it was officially released by Warner Brothers. Richard Donner hasn't seen Superman III (Donner Cut Commentary), so I personally don't believe he dictates canon. Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut isn't much of a regular film in that it really is just a more detailed version of events. It shouldn't be treated as the definitive cut, since the pacing is worse, but if you're going to watch a longer version of the film, you might as well watch the longest.

Plus, it's just a whole lot more consistent to view all Extended Cuts as simply an "extended" version of the film. The only exception might be X-Men: Days of Future Past: The Rogue Cut, which isn't canon per X-Men: Apocalypse's Commentary, but even then you can just about fit it if you wanted to.

A longer version of Superman II and Superman III were made I believe, but they were never made available officially since they aired. I don't see them as canon as Warner Brothers hasn't released them since. I don't think the longer Superman II could even work anyway, since he destroys the Fortress presumably (I'm guessing) to move it so Luthor, the Arctic Police and the Kryptonian Renegades don't find it, which Luthor does in Superman Returns as he remembers finding it before.

If they do anything like a tv show or crossover, I'll move everything to modern day. I don't really like having to put everything in the past because it creates a convoluted reason why this universe is set in the past while also being set in the present. I just feel like a lot more points to the 70s-80s that I can't ignore.

Is it reasonable to assume that the Superman who is wearing the Kingdom Come suit in Paragons Rising is a completely different character, as Donnerverse Superman is completely unaware of the ongoing Crisis, or are we to assume he recognized Clark from the fight with the Luthors, hence the "nice glasses" comment, but blew him off at first for some reason? I think it's pretty obvious that the Luthor who knocked out Lyla is Gene Hackman, though.
 
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selfishmisery

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I changed it to Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut. It may be a television cut, but it was officially released by Warner Brothers. Richard Donner hasn't seen Superman III (Donner Cut Commentary), so I personally don't believe he dictates canon. Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut isn't much of a regular film in that it really is just a more detailed version of events. It shouldn't be treated as the definitive cut, since the pacing is worse, but if you're going to watch a longer version of the film, you might as well watch the longest.

Plus, it's just a whole lot more consistent to view all Extended Cuts as simply an "extended" version of the film. The only exception might be X-Men: Days of Future Past: The Rogue Cut, which isn't canon per X-Men: Apocalypse's Commentary, but even then you can just about fit it if you wanted to.

A longer version of Superman II and Superman III were made I believe, but they were never made available officially since they aired. I don't see them as canon as Warner Brothers hasn't released them since. I don't think the longer Superman II could even work anyway, since he destroys the Fortress presumably (I'm guessing) to move it so Luthor, the Arctic Police and the Kryptonian Renegades don't find it, which Luthor does in Superman Returns as he remembers finding it before.

If they do anything like a tv show or crossover, I'll move everything to modern day. I don't really like having to put everything in the past because it creates a convoluted reason why this universe is set in the past while also being set in the present. I just feel like a lot more points to the 70s-80s that I can't ignore.

Is it reasonable to assume that the Superman who is wearing the Kingdom Come suit in Paragons Rising is a completely different character, as Donnerverse Superman is completely unaware of the ongoing Crisis, or are we to assume he recognized Clark from the fight with the Luthors, hence the "nice glasses" comment, but blew him off at first for some reason? I think it's pretty obvious that the Luthor who knocked out Lyla is Gene Hackman, though.
Well...again, Superman doesn't age the way humans do.
For how Superman in Crisis, we didn't see Lois who would have been old by this point. If anything, his love for her was never-ending. She ages, he doesn't.

I think we shouldn't overthink the Crisis thing and probably ignore the "2006" dates in Superman Returns.
 

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Well...again, Superman doesn't age the way humans do.
For how Superman in Crisis, we didn't see Lois who would have been old by this point. If anything, his love for her was never-ending. She ages, he doesn't.

I think we shouldn't overthink the Crisis thing and probably ignore the "2006" dates in Superman Returns.
Clark was the editor in-chief, and no one questioned why he was so young looking.
 

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I sure Clark had an excuse for that which they fell for.
Superman's newest power: being able to convince people that, while you look 40s-50s, you're actually in your 70s.

You know what? It's too convoluted anyway. Back to modern day. I guess this universe just evolved differently, like you suggested.
 

selfishmisery

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I guess that can work if you ignore some dates and look at that book Lex randomly pulled out as BS speculation or inaccurate astronomic study.
 

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I guess that can work if you ignore some dates and look at that book Lex randomly pulled out as BS speculation or inaccurate astronomic study.
Jor-El stated Krypton exploded thousands of years ago anyway. I trust an AI programmed with knowledge over Lex.
 

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