Fantastic Four Movie discussion (SPOILERS)

moonmaster

Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
E.Vi.L. said:
:shock: I presume a few head rolled over these 60 millions.
The 15 year story of what it took to get a new Superman movie off the ground is a long and twisted tale. Here's an awesome article chronicling the whole disastrous thing:

"Superman V: The Whole Sordid Saga".

When you see what people like Tim Burton and J.J. Abrams were planning to do with the character, you may gain some some newfound appreciation for Superman Returns.
 

Victor Von Doom

Fist of teh Internets.
moonmaster said:
The 15 year story of what it took to get a new Superman movie off the ground is a long and twisted tale. Here's an awesome article chronicling the whole disastrous thing:

"Superman V: The Whole Sordid Saga".

When you see what people like Tim Burton and J.J. Abrams were planning to do with the character, you may gain some some newfound appreciation for Superman Returns.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I was just reading that review on AgonyBooth yesterday!!!! It's hilarious.....long as hell......but really funny.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
And now everyone can get back on topid to the Fantastic Four movie, not what anyone else was going to do with Superman Returns.
 

David Blue

Well-Known Member
I've read that originally Peyton Reed was scheduled to direct Fantastic Four (2005).

His qualification was having directed Bring It On (2000), starring Kirsten Dunst as cheerleader Torrance Shipman. That strikes me as an excellent qualification. Bring It On (2000) has the fun, bounce and comic pace that I think Fantastic Four (2005) needed. (Naturally Kirsten Dunst has to get some or a lot of the credit for that.)

But then Down with Love (2003) did less well than hoped for, and that was all for Peyton Reed. Tim Story got the job instead.

I think that was an unhappy turning point for Fantastic Four in movies.

Batman Begins (2005) got Christopher Nolan and is generally accepted as great. Spider-Man got Sam Raimi and has forged ahead to practically universal and deserved approval. Hulk (2003) got Ang Lee, and is hated by many and loved by some (including me), but it's not an ineptly made movie. X-Men (2000) and X2: X-Men United got Bryan Singer, who is outstanding, and X-Men: The Last Stand (2006) got Brett Ratner, who in my opinion was more than adequate to close out the series in an exciting action movie style, with some class and pizzazz.

Fantastic Four (2005) got Tim Story, and here ended all hope that Fantastic four were going to mean top quality fun and excitement in movies, as they once had in comics.

The last minute change with Jessica Alba needing to strip down to be invisible wasn't made to work smoothly as a joke. (It just sort of peters out as they all get through the crowd anyway. There's no follow-through.) Ben Grimm's fiance Debbie wandering into the New York night in her slip made no sense, and didn't seem to do anything useful. The actor who played Reed Richards has no American accent, and needs to learn all his lines phonetically at home, but throughout the movie he was being given new lines five minutes before he was to say them, meaning he had to concentrate 99% on getting an American accent and 1% on acting, and his acting reflects that. The space scenes were underwhelming, and the way the Fantastic Four were posed on chairs at the moments they were altered by the Cosmic Storm was lame. The way that Victor Von Doom was presented was also lame, starting with his blasting of the businessman Ned, neither cleverly using the water nor dramatically with an appropriate gesture, but with a lightning bolt from limply hanging arms. The Thing in the bar sounding like an earth tremor all the time was a lousy idea that could not have been sustained and should not have been tried out in one scene and left in regardless of his not sounding like that in the rest of the movie. I could add other examples. This stuff is all the director's business to get right.

I'm not blaming Tim Story for not having a Fantasticar when he didn't have the budget or the script to put one in, or anything like that. I'm blaming him for the job he was supposed to do, and didn't do right.

Do other people think that the failure of Down With Love (2003) was bad for the Fantastic Four? Or do you think it probably made little or no difference?
 
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Victor Von Doom

Fist of teh Internets.
David Blue said:
Do other people think that the failure of Down With Love (2003) was bad for the Fantastic Four? Or do you think it probably made little or no difference?

I don't think "Down With Love" had anything to do with F4's results. Most people have not even seen "Down With Love". And of those who did....even less people actually got what he was trying to do. He was trying to make a campy/stylish Rock Hudson era pic. I think a lot of people were expecting it to be cheese and for the film to acknowledge it's cheeseness. Instead the film was cheese and went on about it's business. But that's neither here nor there.

Tim Story gave the audience a summer popcorn flick based on comic book characters. Not necessarily a comic book movie. I got the fact that it was gonna be big and cheesy. And when I heard about the budget...I didn't expect much either. And going in with little or no expectations....I wasn't disappointed.


I for one think its kinda lame for comic book movies to be judged against one another. Different comic books have their own personality. As do the directors who make them. Bryan Singer has a totally different directing style than Sam Raimi. Raimi has a different directing style than Ang Lee, who in turn has a style that differs from Nolan. Each director is gonna take the material he's given and put his own stamp on it to make it his. If we all wanted faithful transitions of comic characters to film...then why not give a crew and several million dollars to the comic creator/writer?

You a great Daredevil movie? Have Bendis write and direct while Maleev is director of photography?


I don't know...I'm kinda going off on some half-assed rant now.

All in all.....while F4 wasn't perfect....I still like it. Its entertaining enough for me to pop in the DVD player and not be bored outta my skull for 90 minutes.
 

David Blue

Well-Known Member
Victor Von Doom said:
"Tim Story gave the audience a summer popcorn flick based on comic book characters. Not necessarily a comic book movie. I got the fact that it was gonna be big and cheesy. And when I heard about the budget...I didn't expect much either. And going in with little or no expectations....I wasn't disappointed."
"It will be FANTASTIC!" was my hook.

I could see from the trailer that Fantastic Four (2005) wasn't all that expertly made, but I could live with that. I was expecting it to a be a bit cheesy and goofy in parts, and rough around the edges. My expectations of the acting were that Jessica Alba would fit right in. (And I still think the acting in Into The Blue (2005) was perfectly adequate and the music first rate.) So I was not expecting Ang Lee, but I was expecting Lee-Kirby explosiveness and good B-movie energy and looks.

I feel that instead what I got was - a lot of good points here and there, starting with Michael Chiklis and Chris Evans, but also - a director who did not have his act together, who didn't have a plan, who didn't know how to make things go snap! crackle! pop!

I was perfectly ready for Ioan Gruffudd as Mister Fantastic to be about the way Paul Walker later was in Into the Blue (2005) - looking the part, saying his lines OK, fine for Jessica Alba to work with, and what more do you want? I was ready to give that a pass, and gladly. But I didn't get that.

In the aftermath of the Thing Torch fight, the crowd of people pretending to talk when they're not - that is some of the lamest acting ever seen in a big comic book superhero movie, and I don't think every single person in that crowd was a dud actor; I blame the director. And this isn't a joke, or if it is, it's one that completely misfires and isn't funny.

I didn't expect Fantastic Four (2005) to be the sort of movie where you're looking at things that have no energy or spark, and you'e wondering if that is just idiotic or if it was meant to be yet another joke that didn't come off, or what?

Victor Von Doom said:
I for one think its kinda lame for comic book movies to be judged against one another. Different comic books have their own personality.
I agree that they do, but as a Fantastic Four fan I hate the idea that this is defined as Fantatic Four's personality.

They were The World's Greatest Comic Magazine, and that was no idle boast. They were wild, they were hot, they were goofy and funny, they were explosive and dramatic. If one joke was a groaner (and many were, they were very much of their time), the next one might nail you.

Doctor Doom was scary - when he got the power of the Silver Surfer, that was one of the scariest things I have ever seen in comics, Kid Miracleman on the rampage included.

Lameness, lack of zap, should not define the collective personality of the Fantastic Four and their great enemy.

Victor Von Doom said:
As do the directors who make them. Bryan Singer has a totally different directing style than Sam Raimi. Raimi has a different directing style than Ang Lee, who in turn has a style that differs from Nolan. Each director is gonna take the material he's given and put his own stamp on it to make it his. If we all wanted faithful transitions of comic characters to film...then why not give a crew and several million dollars to the comic creator/writer?

You a great Daredevil movie? Have Bendis write and direct while Maleev is director of photography?
I wasn't asking for an exact transcription of the comics, like Sin City (2005).

I envy Batman fans not because I think the Fantastic Four should be portrayed in the same style as Batman Begins (2005), but for the fact that Batman fans got a totally appropriate movie in a wholly appropriate style this time, with an overall vision, a director with his act together, extremely strong acting, music, the works - all appropriate to Batman. Fantastic Four fans didn't get that.

If anything, the best Fantastic Four movie is still The Incredibles (2004). If you want to see family, fun, travel, deadly serious conflict and melodramatic goofiness combining as they should, in style and with distinctive, appropriate music and a lively pace, that's where you can see it.

Victor Von Doom said:
I don't know...I'm kinda going off on some half-assed rant now.
No more than me.

Victor Von Doom said:
All in all.....while F4 wasn't perfect....I still like it. Its entertaining enough for me to pop in the DVD player and not be bored outta my skull for 90 minutes.
Me too. :smile:
 
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Victor Von Doom

Fist of teh Internets.
David Blue said:
"It will be FANTASTIC!" was my hook.

I could see from the trailer that Fantastic Four (2005) wasn't all that expertly made, but I could live with that. I was expecting it to a be a bit cheesy and goofy in parts, and rough around the edges. My expectations of the acting were that Jessica Alba would fit right in. (And I still think the acting in Into The Blue (2005) was perfectly adequate and the music first rate.) So I was not expecting Ang Lee, but I was expecting Lee-Kirby explosiveness and good B-movie energy and looks.

I feel that instead what I got was - a lot of good points here and there, starting with Michael Chiklis and Chris Evans, but also - a director who did not have his act together, who didn't have a plan, who didn't know how to make things go snap! crackle! pop!

I was perfectly ready for Ioan Gruffudd as Mister Fantastic to be about the way Paul Walker later was in Into the Blue (2005) - looking the part, saying his lines OK, fine for Jessica Alba to work with, and what more do you want? I was ready to give that a pass, and gladly. But I didn't get that.

I expected nothing from the cast except for Doom. Sadly I was disappointed.

I still thought Chiklis and Evans did great as The Thing and Torch. It was kinda odd that thing was smallest character onscreen when he should've been the biggest. I understand the want for Thing to be human instead of CGI ala Hulk....but they should've gone a different way with the costume and taken their cue from Mr.Hyde in LXG. That was a pretty credible costume they made and in scenes of intense action when you need your big man to be mobile---go for the CGI. As long as the CGI doesn't look like something outta "Hoodwinked" I think you'll be good.

I have higher hopes for the sequel.

David Blue said:
I envy Batman fans not because I think the Fantastic Four should be portrayed in the same style as Batman Begins (2005), but for the fact that Batman fans got a totally appropriate movie in a wholly appropriate style this time, with an overall vision, a director with his act together, extremely strong acting, music, the works - all appropriate to Batman. Fantastic Four fans didn't get that.

True. I will give 'em that. They got what they wanted and with the same director signed on to make the sequel...as well as the first one did...they'll get it again.

I think all fans should get the same thing. But at the same time I recognize that it's harder to make a "team" based movie rather than one lone hero. Time has to be split to delve into each character in order for you to care. That's where the films always fall apart. Some fans will always be disappointed that their fav character is pushed into the background and not given the screentime they believe he/she deserves.

David Blue said:
If anything, the best Fantastic Four movie is still The Incredibles (2004). If you want to see family, fun, travel, deadly serious conflict and melodramatic goofiness combining as they should, in style and with distinctive, appropriate music and a lively pace, that's where you can see it.

Sadly...I agree. The Incredibles was everything that F4 should've been. But in that regards...would there have even been an Incredibles if not for the F4? But in F4's defense---Incredibles had a larger budget to work with and weren't bound by logistics and reality.

Oh well.......at least F4 wasn't Elektra. :wink:
 

Planet-man

Well-Known Member
FF needed a better power and execution for Doom. MacMahon did a good job, they just didn't do the character that well. And he didn't even Doom-out until the finale.
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
Planet-man said:
FF needed a better power and execution for Doom. MacMahon did a good job, they just didn't do the character that well. And he didn't even Doom-out until the finale.
I think did did a bad job, When he was "Doom-out" It didnt feel right, he had no body language, which is really needed when you face is covered. Seemed like he did a voice over for it months before they filmed. But it was just him everything in that movie just crapped on Doom's characterization
 

Planet-man

Well-Known Member
My dad got his hands on a DVD of that a few months ago. Honestly, it's not as bad a movie as people make it out to be.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
My dad got his hands on a DVD of that a few months ago. Honestly, it's not as bad a movie as people make it out to be.
Really? It's so terrible, I couldn't even finish watching it. Horrible acting, horrible everything.
 

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