Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (continued)

A13G10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
149
Why 2024-2025? I'm after 5 episodes, but I understand 20 yeras after this event.



So October 2020? I didn't look at other evidence yet like other newspapers.
the date from that newspaper is GONE, not blurr, gone, from the episode where it appears. In episode 5 there is a calendar for October which matches with October 2001 and October 2007. That calendar actually appears in the series.

So we have a minimum as 2021 and maximum as 2027 for present date. We have also evidence for a 2024-2025 setting based off some files that were updated by Hulu talking about the Helstroms' case.
 

RocketRacoon

Active Member
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
28

"It's not part of the MCU," showrunner Paul Zbyszeweski clarifies to Looper while promoting the release of Helstrom's debut season. "We are our own thing."


"There was a freeing sort of feeling about it because canon can be heavy. It is a weight on your shoulders," the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. veteran explains. "And to have just this little pocket of the universe, because of what it is — the style and tone and thematic sort of darkness of it—- it needed to be its own thing."


That's as official as you can get regarding the shows canon-ocity.
 

Slyonic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
175
Lmao. Knew it. Glad the wording on this cannot be disputed.

With that being said, I do consider it canon myself, as I really like the show and the few connections it does have, are enough for me. But as said before, it was clear the showrunner did not consider it canon himself (anymore).

Edit: This feels a bit useless to say, but if we do put it on the timeline, we could use this quote as proof it's after Endgame lol;

"We got to focus on our people, our characters, our story," Zbyszeweski says. "And hopefully, fans aren't sitting there going like, 'So, when's Iron Man going to show up?'"

Zbyszewski adds with a smile and a laugh, "Oh, spoiler — he's not, because he's dead."
 
Last edited:

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,606
"And to have just this little pocket of the universe, because of what it is — the style and tone and thematic sort of darkness of it—- it needed to be its own thing."
Lol, no. They literally called it a pocket of the MCU. Clearly they're referring to the films and Disney+ shows as MCU and saying they're a different part of the universe that's not MCU. Poor wording on their behalf, but the intent is quite clear.

They would have said the exact same thing if Ghost Rider was still coming out, because they did.
 

Slyonic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
175
Lol, no. They literally called it a pocket of the MCU. Clearly they're referring to the films and Disney+ shows as MCU and saying they're a different part of the universe that's not MCU. Poor wording on their behalf, but the intent is quite clear.

They would have said the exact same thing if Ghost Rider was still coming out, because they did.
He means "this little pocket" of the Marvel (comics) universe, that they're allowed to use, come on now lmao.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,606
He means "this little pocket" of the Marvel (comics) universe, that they're allowed to use, come on now lmao.
Except "Adventure Into Fear" was always planned to be it's own "world" loosely connected to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The context of that comment is clear, because it was always like that.

Especially when you consider that the showrunner described the show as "that Helstrom universe, and that Ghost Rider universe". They considered Ghost Rider it's own thing too, but it was clear that's connected.

The facts:
1. The show has MCU connections.
2. It was planned to be standalone.
3. It's confirmed to be standalone.
4. Ghost Rider was standalone too.
 

Slyonic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
175
Except "Adventure Into Fear" was always planned to be it's own "world" loosely connected to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The context of that comment is clear, because it was always like that.

Especially when you consider that the showrunner described the show as "that Helstrom universe, and that Ghost Rider universe". They considered Ghost Rider it's own thing too, but it was clear that's connected.

I get it, man. It was supposed to be MCU, but it's not anymore.
We've been over this: "Helstrom universe, Ghost Rider universe", he means their mythos and lore from the comics. It's as simple as that.

Believe what you want, but Helstrom not being canon can't be spelled out any clearer than this, unfortunately.
Doesn't mean we can't consider it canon, but Marvel clearly doesn't.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,606
Let's assume it's not in the MCU for a second. Why would they confirm that in a random interview? That's a massively important statement. If it was removed from that universe, why keep easter eggs? If it was always going to be standalone, why remove it from the MCU? Why say it's a darker part and that it's it's one corner of the universe?

Context. Matters.

Let's look at this comment:
"We got to focus on our people, our characters, our story," Zbyszeweski says. "And hopefully, fans aren't sitting there going like, 'So, when's Iron Man going to show up?'"
Can't this be said for every Marvel show? They're saying that they're doing their own thing. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. did that all the time. Is Daredevil not canon because Iron Man didn't show up?

Hell, even Disney+ separates the TV shows from the Marvel Cinematic Universe section, doesn't mean they aren't canon.

Under the assumption this show isn't MCU, what would the show have done differently if it was? Nothing.
 

A13G10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
149
We are in the instance where we have easter eggs to other MCU Productions and we have been told it is part of the MCU, and this last statement is definitely concerning. Looking at everything we are with 65% saying it is canon while 35% aiming at it not being canon anymore.

There is no way to try to see Looper interview with other eyes. Sadly. The other interview where says not tied is exactly different as using it is a way to say it is not MCU. He said "It is not tied to the MCU. There are Easter Eggs for, but they lean more towards Helstrom.and Ghost Rider universes."

That is what he said. So. This statement corroborates it is MCU.

However the lasts statement really tells things different. Giving we have been told "it is" and one "it is not" I would say to keep it yet as canon but taking into consideration it might go away if it is said again. Plus Slyonic is correct about Looper, but wrong about one thing. When he said "pocket of the universe" he is NOT talking about the comics. Because it goes along with his other lines of saying "it is silhoed off MCU", "it is not tied with MCU", and other past comments.
 
Last edited:

Slyonic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
175
Let's assume it's not in the MCU for a second. Why would they confirm that in a random interview? That's a massively important statement. If it was removed from that universe, why keep easter eggs? If it was always going to be standalone, why remove it from the MCU? Why say it's a darker part and that it's it's one corner of the universe?

Context. Matters.

Let's look at this comment:

Can't this be said for every Marvel show? They're saying that they're doing their own thing. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. did that all the time. Is Daredevil not canon because Iron Man didn't show up?

Hell, even Disney+ separates the TV shows from the Marvel Cinematic Universe section, doesn't mean they aren't canon.

Under the assumption this show isn't MCU, what would the show have done differently if it was? Nothing.
Why would they confirm that in a random interview? Because no one but us uberfans care about the canonicity of the Marvel TV shows.
If it was removed from that universe, why keep easter eggs? Because they were filmed during a time when it was still meant to be canon. They're not just going to reshoot entire scenes, because a prop in the background has a connection to another show. Who knows, maybe once upon a time there were actually spoken references to the MCU, but those could have actually been removed.
If it was always going to be standalone, why remove it from the MCU? Because being part of the MCU does actually mean it has an impact (consumerwise) to the franchise. Say Helstrom was a dud, that would've meant the overall rating of the MCU goes down. Disney/Marvel cares about their product.
Why say it's a darker part and that it's it's one corner of the universe? They mean the horror side of the Marvel (comics) universe.
Context. Matters. I agree. Which is why I don't understand you continue to ignore the Adventures into Fear plan got canceled, and that the Marvel banner got removed from Helstrom.
Under the assumption this show isn't MCU, what would the show have done differently if it was? Nothing. You could say this for every show ever. If I were to buy one of the AOS props from the auction store, and film my own TV show using those props, that wouldn't suddenly make my show MCU canon. Just because the show has props used in other MCU shows, means nothing.
We are in the instance where we have easter eggs to other MCU Productions and we have been told it is part of the MCU, and this last statement is definitely concerning. Looking at everything we are with 65% saying it is canon while 35% aiming at it not being canon anymore.

There is no way to try to see Looper interview with other eyes. Sadly. The other interview where says not tied is exactly different as using it is a way to say it is not MCU. He said "It is not tied to the MCU. There are Easter Eggs for, but they lean more towards Helstrom.and Ghost Rider universes."

That is what he said. So. This statement corroborates it is MCU.

However the lasts statement really tells things different. Giving we have been told "it is" and one "it is not" I would say to keep it yet as canon but taking into consideration it might go away if it is said away. Plus Slyonic is correct about Looper, but wrong about one thing. When he said "pocket of the universe" he is NOT talking about the comics. Because it goes along with his other lines of saying "it is silhoed off MCU", "it is not tied with MCU", and other past comments.
I mean, we have one statement saying it's not canon, two statements saying it's not tied to the MCU, and no statement saying it IS canon. Because both of your criteria for it to not be canon seem to be someone needs to literally say the word canon. That hasn't been said in favor of Helstrom.
Agree to disagree about the whole pocket and ''Ghost Rider/Helstrom universes'', I still think he means the comic book angle.

But here's the thing: I like this community. I don't mean to antagonize any of you. I never thought I would become one of those people that would have a debate with his peers about what is or isn't canon. I have always given the benefit of the doubt regarding things being canon. I still think Titan Consumed is canon, despite there being a comment about it having ''no canonical ties to the MCU''. I'm willing to accept Venom into canon if Morbius references it and actually has Vulture in it. After all this, I would still consider Helstrom a part of the MCU canon, because it was once upon a time meant to be, and because it has some MCU props.
But my point is that Marvel doesn't look at Helstrom as canon. They just don't.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,606
I'm just going to post this from the wikipedia talk page. I've said my piece and I'm getting tired of repeating myself.
  • The show was connected to Ghost Rider. Jeph Loeb made clear Ghost Rider was set in the same world as Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (the MCU), thereby making Helstrom also MCU. While Ghost Rider did not go ahead, that doesn't change things, and Episode 1 even includes an apparent reference to that show as if it had gone ahead, with the Caretaker character (from Ghost Rider comics) referencing events he has been involved in over in Texas.
  • Loeb even says in the above quote that these shows are treated as their own thing, not spin-offs - but are nonetheless the same world. It seems that has always been the attitude. Wikipedia currently puts it very nicely with, "It tells a standalone story within the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU)." And all Paul Zbyszewski has been saying is it doesn't tie into the MCU and does its own separate thing. When you're working from a position that Helstrom is officially set in the MCU and those quotes come along, particularly when the position has always been that it's standalone, they're not damning/explicit enough to completely overturn everything.
  • There's the Roxxon Easter egg. Sure, some might want to argue that it's just a comics Easter egg that could be this show referencing Roxxon from the comics in its own way, but that seems unlikely given Roxxon has no particular relevance to this show beyond as a potential way to tie it to the other shows.
  • I have only seen Episode 1, but towards the end, O'Harren's Scotch Whisky appears to be featured. I have been informed by someone who is further ahead than me that it is more clearly shown later in the show, though cannot confirm this myself yet. This is an MCU-specific Easter egg, something not featured in the comics definitely placed to tie it in with the rest of the MCU shows.
Next time you respond, read the above quote again, because I'm not going to repeat myself.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,606
Not really, since new information just came out, and you continue to ignore it by repeating arguments and comments that have been proven dated.
What seems more likely:
  1. "little pocket of the universe" refers to the standalone MCU show being a darker part of the MCU, separate from everything else, which fits what the show has always been described as.
  2. "little pocket of the universe" refers to the comics for some reason.

Also, the Marvel logo means NOTHING, unless you think that the animated Modok show is canon. It was removed because Marvel doesn't want people to look for something like the films and stumble onto Helstrom, a show about horror and terror. If Marvel cared about the overall quality, they would have removed Inhumans from canon already.

See above comment.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,606
What is so goddamn hard to understand about the showrunner literally saying "It's not part of the MCU." holy shit lmao
For the same reason we accept the shows as canon when Kevin Feige says the Disney+ shows are the first to connect and Disney+ separates the Marvel shows from their MCU section. Context. It's not part of the MCU from his definition because he only includes the Cinematic films in that definition.

See above comment.
 

Slyonic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
175
For the same reason we accept the shows as canon when Kevin Feige says the Disney+ shows are the first to connect and Disney+ separates the Marvel shows from their MCU section. Context. It's not part of the MCU from his definition because he only includes the Cinematic films in that definition.

See above comment.
NEVER ONCE was it said about the other shows they were "not part of the MCU".
 
Top