Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (continued)

Dallas Kinard

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Because Yelena has never met Eleanor before. It’s entirely assumption on her part Eleanor hired her. Like I said, she told Kate that to draw out Clint, her actual mission. If Yelena knows that Eleanor is the client, she has to be the absolute greatest assassin ever conceived, to not only be hired by Val from an anonymous client, research that client to find out who she is, concoct a plan to take down Clint (something she could have done for over a year if she’s that good), track Clint, realize Kate is with him, alter her plan to get information from Kate, and yet somehow still not know Kate and Eleanor are related until she sees Eleanor with Kingpin, all in the span of what a DAY?

It makes no sense and I don’t think we have enough information to justify the placement there.
I think this is the correct take. I'm still placing the BW scene in spring of 2024 until further evidence makes it clear it's actually December.
 

Craig

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I think this is the correct take. I'm still placing the BW scene in spring of 2024 until further evidence makes it clear it's actually December.
I agree that the whole thing is very clunky, and done solely for the sake of more crossover, but the BW scene is very clearly meant to tie into Hawkeye.

We don’t really know what Val’s M.O. is as far as building her Thunderbolts team to oppose heroes. I know she’s supposed to be a shady antagonist, but it seems like she’s operating under some governmental organization. So it makes zero sense for Val to sic Yelena on Clint when he’s a non-powered civilian. He’s completely retired after Endgame and has been exonerated for his Sokovia Accords violations after he struck his deal with the government. What reason would Val have to put a hit on him other than getting several million dollars from a client?

Plus, like Slyonic said: Yelena would have immediately dealt with Kate in an at least non-lethal way unless she was being paid to not harm her. Otherwise, their drawn out cat and mouse banter is pretty ridiculous.

And I think the weather shouldn’t be a factor at all. I’ve worked on plenty of timelines, and you constantly have to place scenes in the winter that have outdoor scenes with warm/neutral weather. In this very timeline we have Winter Solider taking place in DC and New Jersey during the month of January, but it’s very clearly summer time, going by character clothing and set foliage.
 

fuzzyfoot

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I agree that the whole thing is very clunky, and done solely for the sake of more crossover, but the BW scene is very clearly meant to tie into Hawkeye.

We don’t really know what Val’s M.O. is as far as building her Thunderbolts team to oppose heroes. I know she’s supposed to be a shady antagonist, but it seems like she’s operating under some governmental organization. So it makes zero sense for Val to sic Yelena on Clint when he’s a non-powered civilian. He’s completely retired after Endgame and has been exonerated for his Sokovia Accords violations after he struck his deal with the government. What reason would Val have to put a hit on him other than getting several million dollars from a client?

Plus, like Slyonic said: Yelena would have immediately dealt with Kate in an at least non-lethal way unless she was being paid to not harm her. Otherwise, their drawn out cat and mouse banter is pretty ridiculous.

And I think the weather shouldn’t be a factor at all. I’ve worked on plenty of timelines, and you constantly have to place scenes in the winter that have outdoor scenes with warm/neutral weather. In this very timeline we have Winter Solider taking place in DC and New Jersey during the month of January, but it’s very clearly summer time, going by character clothing and set foliage.
Again, I don't mind if the two are related, I'd actually prefer that, but it's extremely jarring right now. Tieing into Hawkeye is completely fine. I'd even go as far as to say the BW scene could be the end of summer on a particularly windy/chilly day. But putting both in December based on the information doesn't work for me. I'd rather they pull a George Lucas and completely change the BW scene to be winter so it makes more sense than have it the way it currently is.
 

Dallas Kinard

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Again, I don't mind if the two are related, I'd actually prefer that, but it's extremely jarring right now. Tieing into Hawkeye is completely fine. I'd even go as far as to say the BW scene could be the end of summer on a particularly windy/chilly day. But putting both in December based on the information doesn't work for me. I'd rather they pull a George Lucas and completely change the BW scene to be winter so it makes more sense than have it the way it currently is.
Totally agree. Well said. Let's also not forget this article:

 
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Dallas Kinard

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Also, this video covers this exact topic pretty well.

One of the comments:

If this episode is connected to "Black Widow", then this would need to be the timeline for it to work:
  1. Kate Bishop and Clint Barton are in Kate's mom's apartment at some point in the afternoon four days before Christmas.
  2. After Clint Barton leaves, Eleanor Bishop calls Valentina Allegra de Fontaine and leaves a message.
  3. At some point, Valentina Allegra de Fontaine returns the call and they discuss it and Valentina Allegra de Fontaine decides to kill Clint Barton for Eleanor Bishop.
  4. Valentina Allegra de Fontaine has to then track down Yelena Belova in the Midwest, fly there and say she needs to go kill Clint Barton. Best case, it could have been the same day, (four days before Christmas). Worst case, for the timeline to work at all, is it's the next day (three days before Christmas).
Regardless of what day it is, Black Widow needs get to NYC, track down Clint Barton and be on that rooftop about thirty hours after Kate's mom Eleanor Bishop leaves that message for Valentina Allegra de Fontaine, which is extremely implausible.

 
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Lucid_Dreamer

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RocketRacoon

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As time has went on, I’m feeling a bit more comfortable with the idea of Eternals being in late 2024 instead of 2023. I know there is the “five years ago” line which has already been discussed as being an approximation by Ajak. Also, the earthquakes being suspected as being caused by the Blip still makes sense a year on from the Blip happening as there weren’t any major events affecting the whole Earth from the end of Endgame to Eternals. The only things were Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Far From Home which I consider relatively small scale compared to the Blip. What do y’all think? I’m still happy to keep it in 2023 if more information can be found that places it there but, to me, it’s clear that it wasn’t supposed to be set in 2023 (due to the Disney+ timeline placement and comments from Nate Moore) even if the film itself might suggest it.
 

Pro Bot

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As time has went on, I’m feeling a bit more comfortable with the idea of Eternals being in late 2024 instead of 2023. I know there is the “five years ago” line which has already been discussed as being an approximation by Ajak. Also, the earthquakes being suspected as being caused by the Blip still makes sense a year on from the Blip happening as there weren’t any major events affecting the whole Earth from the end of Endgame to Eternals. The only things were Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Far From Home which I consider relatively small scale compared to the Blip. What do y’all think? I’m still happy to keep it in 2023 if more information can be found that places it there but, to me, it’s clear that it wasn’t supposed to be set in 2023 (due to the Disney+ timeline placement and comments from Nate Moore) even if the film itself might suggest it.
Nate Moore and Disney+ are wrong. We've already established that Disney+ is poor at this sort of thing. I suggest keep it 2023.
 

TalonCard

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Again, I don't mind if the two are related, I'd actually prefer that, but it's extremely jarring right now. Tieing into Hawkeye is completely fine. I'd even go as far as to say the BW scene could be the end of summer on a particularly windy/chilly day. But putting both in December based on the information doesn't work for me. I'd rather they pull a George Lucas and completely change the BW scene to be winter so it makes more sense than have it the way it currently is.
I forget, where is the Black Widow post credit scene supposed to be set? It may just be because I'm in Texas, but it hasn't been unusual at all these past several years to have bright sunny days well into December.
 

Lucid_Dreamer

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I forget, where is the Black Widow post credit scene supposed to be set? It may just be because I'm in Texas, but it hasn't been unusual at all these past several years to have bright sunny days well into December.
Apparently Black Widow's grave is in Ohio. I'm not familiar with weather patterns there but maybe that could be attributed to climate change?
 

TalonCard

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It does look like Ohio has been having record high temps and less snow in December of last year, so it seems plausible. Plus in terms of Yelena's dress, a warm December day in Ohio probably seems pretty mild compared to winters in Russia.
 

Arrowhead

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Yeah, i'm enough confused with the multiversal things and were to place another universe films and TV shows (simply... view them right before NWH to avoid mental problems)
Personally if you wanted to do a complete MCU viewing including all confirmed multiverse films I'd either A. Watch them separately before the MCU (Spider-Man Trilogy, ASM Duo, then start the MCU. Im sure Multiverse of Madness will add some stuff to this)

B. Like you said put them before the film they connect with but to me that breaks the MCU flow too much for me.

C. The last idea I had is start with the MCU and watch up until Endgame (either Chronologically or Release order) then break to watch all films set in the Multiverse and then return to the MCU.

Now I'm just kinda thinking ahead for when more films get added and I want to do a large scale binge of the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. However this year I just did two separate viewings. One of the MCU in Chronological Order and one of the Sony Spider-Man films, including all three series, Venom and Into the Spider-Verse in release order.
 
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FruityWho50

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Was just going through the Moon Knight Trailer to find any Timeline Clues and I found something very relevant.
I found that the Ancient Egypt Exhibition starts in mid to late April and finishes in mid to late July (cant really tell what the exact dates are but they look to be both in the 20s of the start and end months)
Also that makes Sense with the Spring London weather

So moon knight set in April - July 2024 or 2025?
 

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FruityWho50

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Personally if you wanted to do a complete MCU viewing including all confirmed multiverse films I'd either A. Watch them separately before the MCU (Spider-Man Trilogy, ASM Duo, then start the MCU. Im sure Multiverse of Madness will add some stuff to this)

B. Like you said put them before the film they connect with but to me that breaks the MCU flow too much for me.

C. The last idea I had is start with the MCU and watch up until Endgame (either Chronologically or Release order) then break to watch all films set in the Multiverse and then return to the MCU.

Now I'm just kinda thinking ahead for when more films get added and I want to do a large scale binge of the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. However this year I just did two separate viewings. One of the MCU in Chronological Order and one of the Sony Spider-Man films, including all three series, Venom and Into the Spider-Verse in release order.
BTW this is my own personal watch order which is a bit jarring but I think it works so far with what we know to connect to the MCU directly (im not counting into the spider-verse as MCM canon atm just because it doesn't directly reference anything in the MCU or its adjacent universes)
Plus it doesn't take forever to get back to these universes (for example think about the time gap without captain marvel until endgame)
I view the Sony stuff as wildly different variant universe/s of the MCU which is why I put it after what if.
It goes like this:

Endgame
Loki
What If S01
Spider-Man 2002
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3
The Amazing Spider-Man
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Venom
Venom Let there be carnage
Eternals
Wandavision
 

Craig

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Also, this video covers this exact topic pretty well.

One of the comments:

If this episode is connected to "Black Widow", then this would need to be the timeline for it to work:
  1. Kate Bishop and Clint Barton are in Kate's mom's apartment at some point in the afternoon four days before Christmas.
  2. After Clint Barton leaves, Eleanor Bishop calls Valentina Allegra de Fontaine and leaves a message.
  3. At some point, Valentina Allegra de Fontaine returns the call and they discuss it and Valentina Allegra de Fontaine decides to kill Clint Barton for Eleanor Bishop.
  4. Valentina Allegra de Fontaine has to then track down Yelena Belova in the Midwest, fly there and say she needs to go kill Clint Barton. Best case, it could have been the same day, (four days before Christmas). Worst case, for the timeline to work at all, is it's the next day (three days before Christmas).
Regardless of what day it is, Black Widow needs get to NYC, track down Clint Barton and be on that rooftop about thirty hours after Kate's mom Eleanor Bishop leaves that message for Valentina Allegra de Fontaine, which is extremely implausible.


I can’t imagine how that’s not a plausible chain of events.

Val could very easily be keeping constant tabs on all of her assets, so she takes a jet to Ohio as soon as she gets the call from Eleanor. Yelena leaves for NYC immediately after her meeting with Val. Eleanor has given Val/Yelena ample intel on Clint and Kate, and is most likely tracking Kate via cellphone or some other GPS method.




regarding the placement of the Black Widow post-credit scene I found a brief interview with one of the directors who states that Yelena goes to New York "almost immediately" after the post-credit scene
That seals the deal for me.
 

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