No AIDS for muties in the UU?

Hawkeye101

Well-Known Member
Caduceus said:
But its not the same gene thats changing. If every mutant had the same gene changing, then there would be a consistency to mutation. Then, mutants would be a species. But its no the same gene. The mutated gene in Cyclops is not the same gene thats mutated in Wolverine.

Ah, its called a divergent (diverse?) I can't remember that either, but anyway, no it's a gene that is as diverse as the rest of the enire genome of the animal. See, Cyke and Storm are very differnt cats genetically (scrapping their mutations). Scott is male, white, brown hair, tall (for a male) while Storm is black, Female, average (for female). These are just three things that separate them genetically. Now throw in the X-gene, which is probably a divergent/diverse gene, which means the effects of this gene are as diverse as humans themselves. Give the mutation to Scott and his excact genome, you get laser beam eyes, give the same mutation to Ororo, and get the psionic ability to manipulate the weather, because the rest of the protiens build one thing, and divergent/diverse genes have to build off of already exsisting protiens. This is how new hair colors and eye colors are created in a species. Whatever was used to make blond hair, was built off of the already exsisting protiens that had been creating brown hair since humanity evolved.

And, we forget yet another species, Homo Nocturnus, night wisdom, vampires (and yes they exsist in UU, Blade showed up there and is due again soon in Spider-Man). Homo Sapiens, Homo Superior, and Homo Nocturnus are three separate species, all human, for human is a genus term, but all a different Species, Human, Mutant, and Vampire. You always capitalize the species, but you don't capitalize the genus when it is separate from the species name.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Hawkeye101 said:
Ah, its called a divergent (diverse?) I can't remember that either, but anyway, no it's a gene that is as diverse as the rest of the enire genome of the animal. See, Cyke and Storm are very differnt cats genetically (scrapping their mutations). Scott is male, white, brown hair, tall (for a male) while Storm is black, Female, average (for female). These are just three things that separate them genetically. Now throw in the X-gene, which is probably a divergent/diverse gene, which means the effects of this gene are as diverse as humans themselves. Give the mutation to Scott and his excact genome, you get laser beam eyes, give the same mutation to Ororo, and get the psionic ability to manipulate the weather, because the rest of the protiens build one thing, and divergent/diverse genes have to build off of already exsisting protiens. This is how new hair colors and eye colors are created in a species. Whatever was used to make blond hair, was built off of the already exsisting protiens that had been creating brown hair since humanity evolved.

You're ignoring the "why" of evolution though. Scott's ancestors were white because of the region they evolved in, as Storm's were black from the region they evolved in. There's a genetic NEED for those things, yet I haven't found a reason genetically speaking for a dude to shoot lasers out of their eyes or a chick to control the weather (or most other mutant powers for that matter). Wolverine's healing factor is the most believable mutant power as it makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. But thats not the point anyway, as none of them are actually believable. The point is that it takes, as Cad said, a very long time to develop these genes, divergent or not. And NO species has beings each with a trait particular to them. The combination of traits, maybe, but even that is pushing it.

And, we forget yet another species, Homo Nocturnus, night wisdom, vampires (and yes they exsist in UU, Blade showed up there and is due again soon in Spider-Man). Homo Sapiens, Homo Superior, and Homo Nocturnus are three separate species, all human, for human is a genus term, but all a different Species, Human, Mutant, and Vampire. You always capitalize the species, but you don't capitalize the genus when it is separate from the species name.

What the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
 

ProjectX2

Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
So what? There's Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens superior, Homo nocturnus, Homo novus, Homo azonus and Homo ichthyis or however you spell it for all the types of humans on the planet... Anything else?
 

Hawkeye101

Well-Known Member
DIrishB said:
You're ignoring the "why" of evolution though. Scott's ancestors were white because of the region they evolved in, as Storm's were black from the region they evolved in. There's a genetic NEED for those things, yet I haven't found a reason genetically speaking for a dude to shoot lasers out of their eyes or a chick to control the weather (or most other mutant powers for that matter). Wolverine's healing factor is the most believable mutant power as it makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. But thats not the point anyway, as none of them are actually believable. The point is that it takes, as Cad said, a very long time to develop these genes, divergent or not. And NO species has beings each with a trait particular to them. The combination of traits, maybe, but even that is pushing it.



What the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

I was using Vampires as an example of another species within the genus homo. And as to why they're evolving? Could be anything we don't know, but it could have always been in the human genetic structure to have evolved over the 'norm' science. As to why we're evolving so diversely, because the races of human are mixing. When Vampires evolved from humans (back during the black plague) there was one type of human evolving. Now that we're mixed and we're getting several cross-race people, it would make the evolution more diverse as well.

Hey and anyone got a theory on what would happen if a vampire bit a mutant? Would the mutant become a vapire? Would the vampire gain the mutnat's abilities? Guesses?
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Hawkeye101 said:
I was using Vampires as an example of another species within the genus homo. And as to why they're evolving? Could be anything we don't know, but it could have always been in the human genetic structure to have evolved over the 'norm' science. As to why we're evolving so diversely, because the races of human are mixing. When Vampires evolved from humans (back during the black plague) there was one type of human evolving. Now that we're mixed and we're getting several cross-race people, it would make the evolution more diverse as well.

Where are you getting the vampire crap from? They evolved out of the Black Plague? Since when? But the point anyway is this stuff doesn't happen overnight, not in one generation, or even ten, or twenty. Its a gradual process. Thats what you keep ignoring.

Hey and anyone got a theory on what would happen if a vampire bit a mutant? Would the mutant become a vapire? Would the vampire gain the mutnat's abilities? Guesses?

I really don't even care to know. I mean, honestly, why would the vampire gain their abilities? I suppose the mutant would become a mutant vampire...other than that...blah...
 

Hawkeye101

Well-Known Member
DIrishB said:
Where are you getting the vampire crap from? They evolved out of the Black Plague? Since when? But the point anyway is this stuff doesn't happen overnight, not in one generation, or even ten, or twenty. Its a gradual process. Thats what you keep ignoring.

Yeah, this is science fiction and I'm telling you to remember the speech Prof. X gave at the beginning of the X-Men move and the same Exact Speech Jean Grey gave at the end of X2.


DIrishB said:
I really don't even care to know. I mean, honestly, why would the vampire gain their abilities? I suppose the mutant would become a mutant vampire...other than that...blah...

Because vampires gain some of their abilities from their human pery, even memories. I was just wonderin'.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Hawkeye101 said:
Yeah, this is science fiction and I'm telling you to remember the speech Prof. X gave at the beginning of the X-Men move and the same Exact Speech Jean Grey gave at the end of X2.

:shock: What does that have to do with what I said?


Because vampires gain some of their abilities from their human pery, even memories. I was just wonderin'.

True.
 

Hawkeye101

Well-Known Member
DIrishB said:
:shock: What does that have to do with what I said?

You said this stuff doesn't happen overnight. Well, I'm sayin' for Marvel it does for story perposess, ya know "Evolution Leaps Forward".

Oh, and by the way, I didn't say vampires evolved because of the Black Plague, they just came about in numbers about that time.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Hawkeye101 said:
You said this stuff doesn't happen overnight. Well, I'm sayin' for Marvel it does for story perposess, ya know "Evolution Leaps Forward".

Oh, and by the way, I didn't say vampires evolved because of the Black Plague, they just came about in numbers about that time.

Oh ok, gotcha!
 

Caduceus

The Original Muffins Man
Hawkeye101 said:
Ah, its called a divergent (diverse?) I can't remember that either, but anyway, no it's a gene that is as diverse as the rest of the enire genome of the animal. See, Cyke and Storm are very differnt cats genetically (scrapping their mutations). Scott is male, white, brown hair, tall (for a male) while Storm is black, Female, average (for female). These are just three things that separate them genetically. Now throw in the X-gene, which is probably a divergent/diverse gene, which means the effects of this gene are as diverse as humans themselves. Give the mutation to Scott and his excact genome, you get laser beam eyes, give the same mutation to Ororo, and get the psionic ability to manipulate the weather, because the rest of the protiens build one thing, and divergent/diverse genes have to build off of already exsisting protiens. This is how new hair colors and eye colors are created in a species. Whatever was used to make blond hair, was built off of the already exsisting protiens that had been creating brown hair since humanity evolved.
Thats not accurate. If that were, that would mean that every tall, brown haired male with a mutation would have Cyclop's mutation. If that were the case, yes, they would be a species, but its not. Mutation is the random warping of a certain part of the genome. A different part of the genome, in each person. Scott's mutation affected a completly different area of his body than Storm's did, or Xavier's.

Hawkeye101 said:
You said this stuff doesn't happen overnight. Well, I'm sayin' for Marvel it does for story perposess, ya know "Evolution Leaps Forward".
But the thing is, it doesn't. The evolutionary leap those speeches refer to is the beginning of mutation. Marvel mutations are rather drastic, for the most part, and I don't think they're technically scientifically possible. Too much alteration to be naturally occuring in the first generation of the new strain. But thats not the point. The evolutionary leap is only beginning, not complete, and it will still be progressing until a specific mutation works its way into the base genome of more than one or two people.
 

Hawkeye101

Well-Known Member
Caduceus said:
Thats not accurate. If that were, that would mean that every tall, brown haired male with a mutation would have Cyclop's mutation. If that were the case, yes, they would be a species, but its not. Mutation is the random warping of a certain part of the genome. A different part of the genome, in each person. Scott's mutation affected a completly different area of his body than Storm's did, or Xavier's.


But the thing is, it doesn't. The evolutionary leap those speeches refer to is the beginning of mutation. Marvel mutations are rather drastic, for the most part, and I don't think they're technically scientifically possible. Too much alteration to be naturally occuring in the first generation of the new strain. But thats not the point. The evolutionary leap is only beginning, not complete, and it will still be progressing until a specific mutation works its way into the base genome of more than one or two people.

1) just because someone is white, tall, and male, doesn't neccisarily mean they're gonna be like Cyke (Similar, yes), but there are THOUSANDS of other genes to build protiens off of. And remember this is comic book science. So not everything is going to work out perfectly. And if you think about it, isn't gaining random powers the same thing as gaining random hair colors for a species (And all hair colors except brown/black evolved at similar times)
 

Caduceus

The Original Muffins Man
Hawkeye101 said:
1) just because someone is white, tall, and male, doesn't neccisarily mean they're gonna be like Cyke (Similar, yes), but there are THOUSANDS of other genes to build protiens off of. And remember this is comic book science. So not everything is going to work out perfectly. And if you think about it, isn't gaining random powers the same thing as gaining random hair colors for a species (And all hair colors except brown/black evolved at similar times)
Yes, random powers bear a similarity to hair colour. But thats not really relevant. There may be thousands of genes to build proteins off, but there are billions, trillions, I don't even know how many that make up the human genome.

Let me try this a different way. If the same part of the genome was changing, it would have similar affects. Wolverine's powers affect his body in a completely different way to Cyclops. The changes are different. Xavier's mutation is different to Cyclops, because the change in his genome is different. I can spout examples all day, and I'll just be repeating myself. Mutations are not changes to one part of the genome. Thats like saying changing the same place can change the colour of one person's eyes, and the same change in a different person can give them a a different number of fingers.
 

Hawkeye101

Well-Known Member
Caduceus said:
Yes, random powers bear a similarity to hair colour. But thats not really relevant. There may be thousands of genes to build proteins off, but there are billions, trillions, I don't even know how many that make up the human genome.

Let me try this a different way. If the same part of the genome was changing, it would have similar affects. Wolverine's powers affect his body in a completely different way to Cyclops. The changes are different. Xavier's mutation is different to Cyclops, because the change in his genome is different. I can spout examples all day, and I'll just be repeating myself. Mutations are not changes to one part of the genome. Thats like saying changing the same place can change the colour of one person's eyes, and the same change in a different person can give them a a different number of fingers.

How do I put this, building an entrely new chomosone, whoes protiens go off and build up with other protiens that have already been built by the rest of the DNA, you can get random abilities from mutants. As long as the genetic code tells the protien to attach to a certain other protien, then random powers are possible. If the genetic structure told cyke's mutant protiens to attach to his eye protiens, and some one who looked like cyke, but the mutant protien was told to attach to muscle protiens, then you would have two separate mutations.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Hawkeye101 said:
How do I put this, building an entrely new chomosone, whoes protiens go off and build up with other protiens that have already been built by the rest of the DNA, you can get random abilities from mutants. As long as the genetic code tells the protien to attach to a certain other protien, then random powers are possible. If the genetic structure told cyke's mutant protiens to attach to his eye protiens, and some one who looked like cyke, but the mutant protien was told to attach to muscle protiens, then you would have two separate mutations.

Oh for Christ's sake, I thought this damn conversation ended last month! Just let it go already! You're all spouting scientific validation for a fictional story...which doesn't offer much in the way of being validated logically through scientific proof. In other words, this conversation has gone WAY off topic, and has entered the realm of completely asinine. So back to the original thread topic: AIDS for mutants...which is completely asinine also, but carry on.
 
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