Non-Arrowverse DC TV Show Timelines

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selfishmisery

Well-Known Member
Side-note, but my feelings about the Sandman show...

I feel like they need to acknowledge Matt Cable's death from the Swamp Thing series finale. He's the only live-action version of the character, and one that viewers have grown to care about. Although the logistics of it being on a different streaming service than Netflix would make it difficult to present it to viewers who probably haven't seen Swamp Thing, but not impossible. More importantly, he needs that final apology to Abby Arcane before finally expiring. That's extremely integral to his character arc in the Sandman comics. In Swamp Thing, yes he was responsible for killing Alec Holland which is different from the comics but wouldn't effect much in an adaptation. Again that might be a challenge to write for new viewers. But carrying it over to Sandman, not only gives more depth the character within that show but retroactively brings closure to Matt Cable's story in Swamp Thing. It goes beyond just his death, it's his apology and what he saw in his dreams. Matt did fall asleep during his near death experience towards the end of Swamp Thing.

As for Lucifer...I'm kind of expecting a big time jump for the final season. 5 years at the very least. The showrunners stated that he'll be on a much, much darker path in season five - his appearance in Sandman could be in between season 4 and 5 of Lucifer. In Sandman, Lucifer is still in Hell when Dream comes looking for his artifact, but clearly as a more serious individual. There, the aftermath of the events from Season 4 would justify his personality change. But please keep the actor - Tom Ellis.

Remember...Only one Hell and Lucifer Morningstar exist in the Multiverse. There may be two devils, Lucifer and The First of the Fallen, but they're not the same individual; even if they've borrowed names from each other or both ruled their slice of Hell within their own Provinces.
 
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Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Side-note, but my feelings about the Sandman show...

I feel like they need to acknowledge Matt Cable's death from the Swamp Thing series finale. He's the only live-action version of the character, and one that viewers have grown to care about. Although the logistics of it being on a different streaming service than Netflix would make it difficult to present it to viewers who probably haven't seen Swamp Thing, but not impossible. More importantly, he needs that final apology to Abby Arcane before finally expiring. That's extremely integral to his character arc in the Sandman comics. In Swamp Thing, yes he was responsible for killing Alec Holland which is different from the comics but wouldn't effect much in an adaptation. Again that might be a challenge to write for new viewers. But carrying it over to Sandman, not only gives more depth the character within that show but retroactively brings closure to Matt Cable's story in Swamp Thing. It goes beyond just his death, it's his apology and what he saw in his dreams. Matt did fall asleep during his near death experience towards the end of Swamp Thing.

As for Lucifer...I'm kind of expecting a big time jump for the final season. 5 years at the very least. The showrunners stated that he'll be on a much, much darker path in season five - his appearance in Sandman could be in between season 4 and 5 of Lucifer. In Sandman, Lucifer is still in Hell when Dream comes looking for his artifact, but clearly as a more serious individual. There, the aftermath of the events from Season 4 would justify his personality change. But please keep the actor - Tom Ellis.

Remember...Only one Hell and Lucifer Morningstar exist in the Multiverse. There may be two devils, Lucifer and The First of the Fallen, but they're not the same individual; even if they've borrowed names from each other or both ruled their slice of Hell within their own Provinces.
Live-Action Vertigo Universe? Throw in Matt Ryan John Constantine (his show can be canon to both universes like Vertigo comics were in DC and Vertigo universes, although it would be great if they could get his name right for once) in a cameo in Lucifer for a little fan service and you've got The Sandman, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer and Lucifer comics represented.

As long as it makes sense (Lucifer has to appear in The Sandman at some point, surely, even if it's not Tom Ellis), it would be a way to get some closure on Swamp Thing and draw in viewers to both Lucifer and The Sandman.
 

Dok95

Active Member
There will be a Watchmen Universe timeline at some point.
Just in case, in the Watchmen TV Series universe, there is:
- Before Watchmen (2012): 1940-1985
- Watchmen comics (the original from 1986-1987): 1985
- Watchmen (TV Series; 2019): 2019

?

And there is no:

- Watchmen (Movie; 2009)
- DC Rebirth (2016 -)
- Doomsday Clock (2017 -)

?
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Just in case, in the Watchmen TV Series universe, there is:
- Before Watchmen (2012): 1940-1985
- Watchmen comics (the original from 1986-1987): 1985
- Watchmen (TV Series; 2019): 2019

?

And there is no:

- Watchmen (Movie; 2009)
- DC Rebirth (2016 -)
- Doomsday Clock (2017 -)

?
Are there any contradictions between it and Doomsday Clock? If not, throwing it in is fine I suppose. The movie is non-canonical since it's an adaptation, and the show and Doomsday Clock follow the comics.

Before Watchmen
Watchmen
Doomsday Clock
Watchmen
 

Dok95

Active Member
Are there any contradictions between it and Doomsday Clock? If not, throwing it in is fine I suppose. The movie is non-canonical since it's an adaptation, and the show and Doomsday Clock follow the comics.

Before Watchmen
Watchmen
Doomsday Clock
Watchmen

They talk about "12 issues", so maybe only Watchmen TV Series universe is an alternate universe where only the original comics (+ the TV Series) are canon, but the prequel Before Watchmen nor the sequel Doomsday Clock aren't canon?
 

selfishmisery

Well-Known Member
Live-Action Vertigo Universe? Throw in Matt Ryan John Constantine (his show can be canon to both universes like Vertigo comics were in DC and Vertigo universes, although it would be great if they could get his name right for once) in a cameo in Lucifer for a little fan service and you've got The Sandman, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer and Lucifer comics represented.

As long as it makes sense (Lucifer has to appear in The Sandman at some point, surely, even if it's not Tom Ellis), it would be a way to get some closure on Swamp Thing and draw in viewers to both Lucifer and The Sandman.
John Constantine can dimensional travel, and Earth-1 Constantine is already an extremely powerful sorcerer. He could easily go to another Earth if he wanted to.

The Constantine show doesn't have to co-exist on two different Earths (which is confusing...) IMO.
 
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iammattie

Well-Known Member

They talk about "12 issues", so maybe only Watchmen TV Series universe is an alternate universe where only the original comics (+ the TV Series) are canon, but the prequel Before Watchmen nor the sequel Doomsday Clock aren't canon?
It's been confirmed Marionette is coming over from Doomsday Clock. I'd say it's fine to treat as canon until stated otherwise
 

selfishmisery

Well-Known Member
Interesting. I found this article analyzing Iain Glen's Bruce Wayne.

Basically, his Bruce Wayne doesn't have to be interpreted as 'old'. Titans' Bruce could easily be the same age as Ben Affleck's Bruce. But here, in this universe/timeline, what they insinuate is that the reason he looks the way he does is because of the toll being Batman does on the human body. 20 years of stress, lack of sleep, crime-fighting, etc would drastically affect him physically.

Thought this would be interesting to share, since Iain Glen's version of the character has been a bit polarizing for some.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
So, as Pro Bot said, the prequel and sequel are also canon for the TV Series?
Might as well have the whole thing. You could even include Watchmen: The End is Nigh, which is a tie-in game to the movie but can be treated as canonical. The Watchmen wiki includes promotional material for the movie, which is fine too. Those two are really just optional, though.

Everything except the movie can be counted as canonical because that's an adaptation, just like the Harry Potter films (except Fantastic Beasts, which is both).
 

Dok95

Active Member
Might as well have the whole thing. You could even include Watchmen: The End is Nigh, which is a tie-in game to the movie but can be treated as canonical. The Watchmen wiki includes promotional material for the movie, which is fine too. Those two are really just optional, though.

Everything except the movie can be counted as canonical because that's an adaptation, just like the Harry Potter films (except Fantastic Beasts, which is both).
If it's related to the movie, it should be canon to the movie, why it could be canon to the TV series?
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
If it's related to the movie, it should be canon to the movie, why it could be canon to the TV series?
Optional, I guess. Not necessarily out of canon exactly, but came to be because of the movie. It's definitely in the Movie universe, though. I don't think it has to be included, but there's nothing to indicate it's out of continuity. I'm fine with it being ignored, of cause, but some order it in the comic continuity as well. Perhaps it's events are referenced somewhere?
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Slight edit to fix the Titans order:

2019
March
Titans 2x02, “Rose”
Titans 2x03, “Ghosts”
Titans 2x04, “Aqualad”
Titans 2x05, “Deathstroke”


April
Titans
1x11, “Dick Grayson” (0:40:14 - 0:42:17)

????
Titans
2x06, “Conner”
Titans 2x07, “Bruce Wayne”
Titans 2x08, “Jericho”
Titans 2x09, “Atonement”
Titans 2x10, “Fallen”
Titans 2x11, “????”
Titans 2x12, “????”
Titans 2x13, “????”
 
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Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Speaking of retcons, if Pennyworth and Gotham were somehow set on Earth-38, that headcanon would create an logical (plus historical and geographical) issue after Crisis - that being Berlin.

Pennyworth had an off-handed line in episode four about the German Reich (a fourth Reich?) allowing autonomy to the Netherlands in a committee in Berlin.
Meanwhile on Earth-1, in the Legends of Tomorrow episode "No Country for Old Dads", East and West Berlin are a thing as well as East and West Germany.

If Earth-38 included Gotham and Pennyworth and that Earth merges with Earth-1 in Crisis...that would extremely alter the events of the aforementioned Legends of Tomorrow episode.
But that episode is integral to the storyline so...the cold fusion scientist would be stuck in Germany regardless.

Just a thought. Felt like sharing.

EDIT: It's probably inevitable; Batwoman's Gotham City is (almost) EXACTLY like the one from the show Gotham.

As seen here:
2019 - 15 years = 2004 (i.e. the supposed year when Gotham's series finale took place?)
What about Nyssa al Ghul? According to the Arrowverse wiki, she was born in 1985. She appeared in 1994 in Gotham, meaning she's 9 years old. How would Crisis merge these universes together? I guess she'd have to be older?
 

selfishmisery

Well-Known Member
What about Nyssa al Ghoul? According to the Arrowverse wiki, she was born in 1985. She appeared in 1994 in Gotham, meaning she's 9 years old. How would Crisis merge these universes together? I guess she'd have to be older?
I have some theories for the whole Nyssa/Ra's situation.
1.) The Ra's in Gotham is the FIRST Ra's. The one before Ra's in Arrow and even his predecessor.
2.) The League of Shadows is a much older, dying sector of the organization compared to the League of Assassins which it branched off from.
3.) The "Nanda Pardat" in Arrow is a city named after the country Nanda Pardat seen in Gotham.
4.) Nyssa al Ghul in Gotham is an ENTIRELY different "Nyssa". The word "Nyssa" translates to "woman". So I would assume that's a preferred name for daughters of the Demon.
5.) Gotham's Nyssa becomes Athena. She worked as an informant for Gotham's Ra's to keep close relations with the current Ra's in Arrow, including training his Nyssa. (The actresses for Gotham's Nyssa and Athena look so much alike, so it could work itself out.)

My theory for Arrow's Cyrus Gold though is simple: That's Sonny Gilzean. Found out about his uncle's identity sometime during the events of Gotham S4, hightailed out of the city when the bridges blew and moved to Star City as an orphan with a new name ('borrowed' from his uncle).

This is all potential post-merger theories, so even anything with Nora Fries on Earth-1 will be erased and she's now been dead since "1985".
 
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Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
120
A practical but rough, heavy gear looking Gotham suit.

121
A clean batsuit, similarly coloured and lined to the Gotham suit.

Not just Gotham City, but the Batsuits are notably but believably different to one another. If Gotham was a year 1 Batsuit, it's fair game to make the Arrowverse suit year 11 if they want to make these characters the same. Whatever they do, Crisis pretty much fixes all the problems anyway, since some characters could just be renamed for example. Hopefully by the end of Crisis, we have less cinematic universes to worry about, regardless of Gotham acknowledgement (but hopefully they will).
 
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