Ultimate X-Men 68 (Discussion/Spoilers)

[E]

The Teen Titans just had sex in an issue too

DC doesn't count.

</Nurhachi>

 

[Goodwill]

Keep in mind what Lilandra says about the Phoenix may or may not be true. The contradictions you picked out in the story are probably there intentionally. We'll see in the next three issues, though.

 

[E]

Keep in mind what Lilandra says about the Phoenix may or may not be true.

Well, yeah. It's a comic but for being as down to Earth as the Ultimate books generally are, I doubt the Phoenix is really the core of Ultimate Earth.

 

[Goodwill]

It's their belief... As a religion, it's like a rule to believe in off the wall ****.

 

[iceman]

still all this hub-bub about 2 underage characters having sex.

ok, well, hopefully, they'll both get AIDS and die by issue 70.

because what they did was WRONG! and we cannot give kids the idea that people who have underage sex are heroes. they should just stick to killing (Logan), being members of the mob (Colossus), being former assassins (Logan), solving all problems through violence (Cyclops), being an underage alcoholic (Dazzler), and having wearing doo-rags when white (Iceman).

 

[E]

still all this hub-bub about 2 underage characters having sex.

ok, well, hopefully, they'll both get AIDS and die by issue 70.

because what they did was WRONG! and we cannot give kids the idea that people who have underage sex are heroes. they should just stick to killing (Logan), being members of the mob (Colossus), being former assassins (Logan), solving all problems through violence (Cyclops), being an underage alcoholic (Dazzler), and having wearing doo-rags when white (Iceman).

You are completely and totally missing the point, whether you're being facetious or not.

 

[iceman]

what's the point then? that they are young?

maybe my book was missing a few pages, but i didn't see any nudity, let alone a graphic a scene of Bobby Drake screaming the lyrics Tenacious D's "F*ck You Softly" as he's mounting Rogue.

they implied they had sex. big deal. this isn't really a kids book. if it is, i point to all the things that i said happen which are just as bad as implying 2 underage kids had sex.

and as far as sexuality goes, i think we forget that in comic books women usually wear skin tight, rather revealing uniforms. while that isn't sex, that is certainly sexual, and both storm and jean have been wearing skin tight belly shirts (for no real reason) since day one. and storm was underage.

so it's "inappropriate." what qualifies as what's appropriate then? if they had been building this up since issue 1, would it be appropriate? is it simply not appropriate because it's not necessary? it's an action two characters understandably took.

and no, that wasn't facetious. that implies i wasn't trying to make a point.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

so it's "inappropriate." what qualifies as what's appropriate then? if they had been building this up since issue 1, would it be appropriate?

Actually... Yeah.

But it came out of the blue and was then treated as if it was no big deal by both of them. Which only would be true if they were either long time lovers or very promiscuous teens used to one night stand.

Looks a lot like it was just thrown in for the sake of the "It's no big deal" crowd. Doesn't seem appropriate. Certainly not very in-character.

 

[iceman]

you can argue its out of the blue, though they had been close for quite some time in the book.

but out of character?

bobby, the immature kid who peeked at girls in the shower room? a teenage boy who wants sex!? unheard of.

and rogue? someone who has never been able to touch someone, now finally able to?

 

[E.Vi.L.]

you can argue its out of the blue, though they had been close for quite some time in the book.

but out of character?

bobby, the immature kid who peeked at girls in the shower room? a teenage boy who wants sex!? unheard of.

Not the sex, doofus, their behavior afterward.

 

[iceman]

hmn. what? oh? that bobby is like "what happens now?"

i thought that bobby's reaction was realistic enough. he showed vulnerability, like often does when something big happens.

rogues, yes, i'll admit rouges reaction was a little off, but hey, maybe bobby was awful.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

rogues, yes, i'll admit rouges reaction was a little off, but hey, maybe bobby was awful.

That might be the most logical explanation. :lol:

 

[ultimatedjf]

Or maybe Kirkman just has a hard time writing scenes like that since there's not that many real life instances he can draw from to help himself.

 

[E]

Or maybe Kirkman just has a hard time writing scenes like that since there's not that many real life instances he can draw from to help himself.

KirkBURN.

 

[Goodwill]

This underage sex argument is driving me insane... It was right. It was wrong, drop it.

 

[Synch]

This underage sex argument is driving me insane... It was right. It was wrong, drop it.

Word, lets move on to the not-so-subtle sabretooth/cornelius tie-in. I was glad to Sab at first but now I'm disappointed that the whole thing happened in the first place. I'm ready to see some ultimate Bishop, Cable, or Shatterstar any time now.

 

[DIrishB]

Not Ultimate X-Men anyway. And yeah, I agree...if you want to infer that the kids are getting busy, so be it. But what they showed was over the line and could get them in legal trouble. Not to mention it makes Kirkman and Raney look like total pervs.

I have to disagree. I can see your point, but it wasn't over the line in my opinion. In terms of what we saw, we see much worse on females in comics when they're fully clothed. In terms of what was inferred, its no big surprise. Its a fact most kids in the country today are doing the same thing. Kirkman was merely trying to tackle this issue (call it an element of realism or whatnot), much like other personal issues of other characters have been explored in the past. Just because its sex doesn't make it automatically in bad taste. I realize that isn't what you're saying, but I think many others are thinking along those lines.

Could it have been handled better? Absolutley.

Am I going to make a big deal over a small matter like that? Absolutely not.

You're a prude.

I had sex for the first time when I was 14. Which was a little early but at the time there was a lot of peer pressure involved. And it happened sort of like that. Horny teenage boy + Horny teenage girl + Home Alone = Loss of virginity and awkward conversation. Besides this book is rated teen, that seems very permittable under that statute. Especially when Boy Meets World gets the same rating and they have the same type of action going on. (Don't ask.)

Very good points, Synch.

This is why the writers think it's ok to write these scenes in. They think that most teenagers loose their virginity at 14.

According to statistics, most do around that age. Whats the problem?

Who cares? Nobody's questioning whether or not it happens. Go ask Abercrombie & Fitch if depictions of underage sexuality are legal.

Of course it happens, so why is it such a big deal if its minorly addressed in the comic? I mean you have a bunch of teenagers living in a co-ed environment, what do you think will happen? No one was *****ing when Wolverine tagged Jean in the first arc...is the big deal really the 3 or 4 year age difference? It wasn't presented in a graphic way at all, so why is it even an issue?

And since we know it does happen what's all the hub-bub about? Ok they had sex, what's next? It's not like it's something that is so far from reality that it could never happen, and if it was who cares. This is a comic book.

That sums up my point perfectly.

Here comes the clue train - nobody cares about your sex life. Please.

Come on, E, he was using it as an example of why the topic we're discussing isn't so out of place in the book.

It's their belief... As a religion, it's like a rule to believe in off the wall ****.

Especially Scientology.

still all this hub-bub about 2 underage characters having sex.

ok, well, hopefully, they'll both get AIDS and die by issue 70.

because what they did was WRONG! and we cannot give kids the idea that people who have underage sex are heroes. they should just stick to killing (Logan), being members of the mob (Colossus), being former assassins (Logan), solving all problems through violence (Cyclops), being an underage alcoholic (Dazzler), and having wearing doo-rags when white (Iceman).

DING-DING-DING!

TKO!

You are completely and totally missing the point, whether you're being facetious or not.

Could you make your point clear, because I'm not sure what it is. Apparently you don't feel them addressing the underage sex issue in this comic is appropriate...but why? Given all the reasons Synch (and I) listed as to why it makes sense, I'd like to hear your side.

Actually... Yeah.

But it came out of the blue and was then treated as if it was no big deal by both of them. Which only would be true if they were either long time lovers or very promiscuous teens used to one night stand.

It didn't come out of the blue. The Bobby/Rogue relationship has been going on since The Tempest arc...almost twenty issues, if not more. They did the usual break up, get back together thing that seems to be a hobby of teenagers these days. Once they got back together, they had sex. This can be explained as Gambit having a greater influence on Rogue's personality, Bobby just being an average horn-ball teenager, or how about this:

For a long time, Rogue hasn't even been able to touch another human being, let alone have sex with one. Makes sense to me that once she was able to do so, she took the plunge and went all the way. She's a fragile chick right now after the whole Gambit thing...don't you know anything about taking advantage of women?

In terms of it being treated as "no big deal", most teens are worried what people think about them. In a situation like that, what would you have them do, sit down and talk about their feelings and how they feel different (or don't) now that they're not virgins anymore? No offense, EVIL, but please never write about any teenage characters dealing with sex.

Looks a lot like it was just thrown in for the sake of the "It's no big deal" crowd. Doesn't seem appropriate. Certainly not very in-character.

Still disagreeing with you on that as well. It certainly didn't seem inappropriate, whether it was appropriate or not. And it does seem "in-character" if you consider their past history and the fact Bobby's your average teenage guy. The only character that needs studying in this equation is Rogue, and given the circumstances it makes sense to me.

Not the sex, doofus, their behavior afterward.

So how should they have acted?

 

[Ice]

I don't see how it can be explained more clearer than D!B just did. Fully agree.

 

[DIrishB]

I don't see how it can be explained more clearer than D!B just did. Fully agree.

Totally. I can understand people not agreeing with it, but what I can't understand is how its inappropriate and wrong. Barring any social or personal beliefs...this **** happens, all the time, everday. For once, it happened to a couple characters in a comic we read. We didn't have to sit through the whole thing, we just got one panel of the aftermath...some awkwardness and unsurety of themselves. How isn't that dead-on?

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I don't see how it can be explained more clearer than D!B just did. Fully agree.

Oh bull****! Whatever happened to your catchphrase Ice. "People have different opinions" I think this argument pretty much falls within' those boundaries.

I'm with E. I think it was a lame way to try to relate to teenage readers. If anyone should've lost their virginity first it should've been Scott and Jean because at least we know they have true feelings for each other. This is just kids having sex to have sex and it sets up a piss poor example just like the damn television shows do.