It wasn't you, actually.
How many members here are Christians?
- Thread starter Mavericker
- Start date
It wasn't you, actually.
Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
well, for one it's not an interpretation but an event that happened (if you're christian you believe this). And the garden was a good place and no there was nothing to be ignorant of becasue nothing bad was happening until after they were tempted to eat from the tree.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
I'm totally in agreement with Planet-Man.
Except I don't care about eating animals or wearing their soft wonderful flesh.
Except I don't care about eating animals or wearing their soft wonderful flesh.
Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
why would you wear flesh? that's gross. what's the matter with you sir? fur on the other hand...mmmm warmth. wool that is. not skinning animals.
Gemini
Well-Known Member
well your wearing skin, not flesh, there is a difference
nobody is walking around in a steak, well besides Ourchair
Hey if Luke skywalker can wear the flesh of a tauntaun in empire strikes back then Dr.Strangefate can wear the flesh of any animal he wants.
I'm such a geek
Langsta
Well-Known Member
I'm such a geek
We're all right there with ya, buddy.:wink:
Now, I'm a Catholic, but I've got my doubts. Like, what's your explanation for dinosaurs? Did God just put a bunch of fake dinosaur bones in the Earth just to **** with us? And what's your explanation for other planets? Did God create those too? Then why aren't they in the Bible?
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Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
dinosaurs were before the dawn of man. NO writings or anything can take their existence into account in the bible. If we knew the explanation for dinosaurs, then we'd know how they died, how they lived, what they exactly looked like rather than renditions, i heard they were changing the way the brontosaurs stood and ate their food which went from giraffes to cows now. It does however have alot of fantastical creatures like leviathan and there were like two or three other odd looking beasts which never get taken into account again. As for planets, i honestly couldn't answer that for you. I don't know enough to tell you about it. At the same time that doesn't really fall in to the bible as any events in the book happen on earth.
i've heard alot of explanations that the earth was only around for a few thousand years rather than billions. I don't know, i don't care really becasue what the **** does it matter? you'll find out when you die i suppose if you're still curious. maybe heaven is other planets or solar systems and not the clouds in the sky. Maybe we can traverse the universe in our spirit forms and travel it forever. Who knows? I also heard that when you die, your body lose .03 of a pound and some people say that is when your soul leaves you. Soem people beleive the ark of the covenant is below the temple of jerusalem which is in the heart of the israeli/palestinian war right now. i think in revelations it says that one sign of the apocalypse is when the temple is rebuilt. that's what they're both trying to accomplish. i couldn't give you reference though and it's one of the reasons im so crazy. there you have it. noahs arc is in turkey in some mountain i forget the name. The turkish gov't banned anyone from going to the mountain becasue of insurgents but i find that too "convenient." there are pictures of an arc taken there. if it's noah's is debatable i suppose, but it's all too coincidental in an account from the bible that names the exact location. maybe, moses really was high when he talked to the burning bush. i don't know where im going with this. I just like to blurt whatever pops in my head and share and confuse you. how bout that?
no breaks XD
Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
We know how they lived. Don't you remember this documentry
i wonder if dino teenage angst was similar to ours.
McCheese
Well-Known Member
My favorite explanation for dinosaurs was something that my friend showed me on youtube. It was by a televangelist. I'm going to paraphrase a bit because it's like 16 minutes long.
Back in olden times everything lived really long. Says so in the bible. And the bible is infalible. Noah was like 400 years old. So dinosaurs aren't a seperate species. They are just lizards who grew very big because lizards never stop growing. Noah didn't have room for the big ones on the boat so he left the big ones and took the babies. So the dinos went extinct because everything stopped living for a really long time and so dinosaurs still walk amongst us, just really small. This is accompanied by pictures of humans interacting with dinosaurs.
Makes me laugh every time. There was a second speech about how Noah was able to fit all the animals on his ship, but I'll save that for later.
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Gemini
Well-Known Member
think Bud Bundy meets Bart Simpson
I find that bizarre, because the comfort of faith seems to me to be the best part of religion. Its the social engineering aspects of it that generally cause disagreement and trouble.
Meeeeeeeeeeeeetaphor. I think you're definitely being way too literal in your interpretation - the bad things weren't that they were being stalked by a thousand hungry zombie-tigers thirsting for blood, they (seem to me anyway) to refer to the human capacity for the more negative emotions (and ultimately, actions) that are linked to self-awareness; things like selfishness.
Dude, I totally want to see that. Also, my local church frequently puts up spectacularly awesome boards that say things like "Noah was a fool to get in a wooden boat with two termites! A fool!"
Gemini
Well-Known Member
I'd like to further my point but i no longer have the vocabulation skrillz to keep up a competent discussion about a serious topic for longer than 3 posts, without myself unintentionally sounding like a pigheaded bigot that is
Bass
Nexus of the World
I really feel I should talk about the idea of "organised religion is bad".
I truly think you have not thought through those statements well enough (though sadly, I see it more commonly than I'd like). Saying religion is inherently bad or absolutely bad (in that it is always something to oppose) is kinda like saying "education is bad".
It's sheer nonsense: it's the form the education takes that's what important.
Religion is much like education for the spirit (as opposed to the mind). It's to teach wisdom and ethics and to deal with the terrible paradoxes that exist in our lives (why must life end in death, for example). If you have a good teacher, you'll learn well. If you have a bad teacher, you won't. Islam, for example, in the hands of a devout, compassionate imam, can be a holy, sacred experience that enriches your life. Or, it can be an instrument of war in the hands of crazy zealots who are really pissed off.
The problem I feel you face, in terms of what your perception of religion is, is that you (like far too many others) believe that religion is the end of understanding. That if you're a Christian, you are not allowed to examine or participate in other beliefs. And you know what? I bet a lot of Christians feel that way too. But religions are not meant to be exclusive - in the long-term. (At the beginning, of course they are.)
I agree, people should believe as differently from one another as they think and feel, but I also think, that without a strong learning programme, one can get lost in the vacuum of possibilities.
People have to start somewhere, and that's what those organizations are for. They're where you start. And if you're really, really capable or driven, you can move past them to your own spiritual wisdom. And sometimes, you don't need to. What you have is enough.
But they're necessary. People can't live without spiritual direction. Some people find a common ground shared by many, and some people find their own. But without organized religions, even those to oppose, few would find any direction at all.
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Gemini
Well-Known Member
I just think that personal belief in a higher power is just that a personal thing, and when you organize this beleif into larger groups one person generally takes a position of authority and this leads towards said person telling people what to beleive and how to beleive it.
i mean you can have christianity without the church, you can have Judiism (is that right? i don't want to say Jewishness) with out the temple, so i don't see the necessity of a church (i am using a church as a reference to organized religon in general).
but please i don't want to get in an aguement about religon, i hate talking about religon... and politics... on the internet
Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
you're in the wrong thread then :wink: You don't need church though in all honesty. The only thing church is good for is guidance. If you can find a good priest, minister, rabbi etc, they can help you and guide with lessons on how to live.
There are alot of things wrong with the church though and mostly my peeve is that anyone seen as an outsider is just that. You (in general not gemini) are seen as a heathen or bigot or okay example; Say i was deeply involved in church and bass, as i take it is muslims correct? if he's not lets say he is and i take him to meet the other side so to speak. The thing is, they automatically start telling him he's wrong or they hold back judgement, not because they're being model christians, because they don't know what to think because his concepts are so alien that even if there was common ground there is no way they would explore it.
Finding a really good church is hard to find and imo probably not worth finding, at least in america. And this isn't something that i thought of, it's something i've lived through. seeing the ugly side of religion and still having faith is a feat in it's own right. i don't know, that's mainly why i don't go. that and tithes. I don't want to give my money to a church when, two years from now, it looks worse than before but the minister has a nice explorer parked outside.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Here's where your thinking falls apart, and what I was trying to explain.
Yes, you are right, organised institutions of religion do have human authority figures (irrespective of their deities) and this does lead towards the authority figures telling people what to believe and how to believe.
But that is not necessarily a bad thing.
To you, being told how to believe in something is synonymous with being wrong. I'm trying to explain, that it is not. Being told what and how to believe can be beneficial.
Like anything, it can be taken to an unhealthy point, and I think in most cases it is borderline. But I do think it also has many positive benefits.
For example, prayer is a form of meditation. There's really very little difference. Meditative stances occur in two fashions: one is doing nothing, clearing one's mind of everything to be at total relaxation and peace. The other form, is to do the opposite; to carefully and precisely perform a practiced routine, because in doing a deeply involving routine such as prayer, your focus is so intent on the task, your mind becomes clear of all else. This happens in almost all sporting events.
Either form of meditation requires very strict rules so people can learn them and adapt them to fit themselves.
With anything in life, you have to start at the beginning, and at the beginning, it's very rigid, very structured, and very oppressive. It has to be. It's how learning works. As you progress, it gets less so.
I'm trying to get you to see that the "telling people what to do" isn't always bad. At it's worst, it's oppression and brainwashing, but at its best, it can be progressive and liberating.
Does that make any more sense?
Personally, I want to say Jewishness from now on, because it's hysterical. But you're more or less right; it is Judaism. So a teeny inaccuracy.
Gemini
Well-Known Member
Here's where your thinking falls apart, and what I was trying to explain.
Yes, you are right, organised institutions of religion do have human authority figures (irrespective of their deities) and this does lead towards the authority figures telling people what to believe and how to believe.
But that is not necessarily a bad thing.
To you, being told how to believe in something is synonymous with being wrong. I'm trying to explain, that it is not. Being told what and how to believe can be beneficial.
Like anything, it can be taken to an unhealthy point, and I think in most cases it is borderline. But I do think it also has many positive benefits.
For example, prayer is a form of meditation. There's really very little difference. Meditative stances occur in two fashions: one is doing nothing, clearing one's mind of everything to be at total relaxation and peace. The other form, is to do the opposite; to carefully and precisely perform a practiced routine, because in doing a deeply involving routine such as prayer, your focus is so intent on the task, your mind becomes clear of all else. This happens in almost all sporting events.
Either form of meditation requires very strict rules so people can learn them and adapt them to fit themselves.
With anything in life, you have to start at the beginning, and at the beginning, it's very rigid, very structured, and very oppressive. It has to be. It's how learning works. As you progress, it gets less so.
I'm trying to get you to see that the "telling people what to do" isn't always bad. At it's worst, it's oppression and brainwashing, but at its best, it can be progressive and liberating.
Does that make any more sense?
Personally, I want to say Jewishness from now on, because it's hysterical. But you're more or less right; it is Judaism. So a teeny inaccuracy.
long posts from people who disagree with me frighten me, i'm too timid, so i'll freely admit that i did not read the bulk of either post.
when it comes to religon i can admit i'm a little too jaded and i'll accept that. I'm not telling anyone what to do so I'm not trying to do anything except voice my opinion that spirituality and religon are seperate things and that religon is an entirely unnecesary factor when it comes to spirituality, you disagree with that and that's fine and dandy.
maybe on another day if i had the cojones to argue with you guys i would voice my opinion more in depth, but i'm way too tired so i won't bother
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moonmaster
Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 13,670
It's not necessarily knowing of bad things, it's asking questions. It's asking "Why is the sky blue?" or "Why does it rain?" or "What am I here for?" Wanting to know beyond what you already know. But questions cannot be asked if you have no reason to ask them and vice versa. The ignorant live in happiness and therefore have no need to ask questions. Intelligence and consciousness requires hardship. It's how homo sapiens truly became human: They started asking questions. And that's when the world becomes a lot harder.
The problem with religion nowadays is that people take it too literally.
I have no doubt that the story of the Garden of Eden and most of the stories in the Bible are just metaphors. In fact, I bet there were times when that was just common knowledge.
