Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline

[DIrishB]

Hey man, I really appreciate the digging. I think a lot of people saw that it happened during Christmas and just assumed since it was the first movie after The Avengers it had to be THAT Christmas. Unfortunately, I'm part of that faction of people who thinks it did happen in 2013. I'm not here to change anyone's mind, I'm just trying to get proof for both sides of the argument and this seemed to be a really big one that was floating around for the 2012 side.

And as much as I wish I could accept the junior novelization as proof, I can't bring myself to. I think recently the Spiderman Junior novel reinforces the 8 years claim and that also turned out to be false. And also I think in the Thor: The Dark World novelization, ****** survives the Dark Elves, deviating extremely from the movie's plot. So I personally can't trust those things in the slightest.

Yeah, I'm not really relying on the six month mention (whether real or not) or the novelization for the timeline. That stuff is non-canon since its not seen or mentioned in actual canon material. I'll utilize that type of info if there is no other source and it doesn't conflict with anything established in canon, but I'm simply using the implied timeline from the film itself and Agents of SHIELD. The prop newspaper does place it in Dec 2013, but the dialogue and 13 years later dialogue (from December 31, 1999) place it in December 2012. This is reinforced by Agent of SHIELD's Pilot episode using the Extremis plot line. The intention was clear to follow that on from what occurred i in Iron Man 3. The Dec 2013 date on the prop was simply a mistake, since the film came out in 2013 they used the real world timing (somewhat as the film released in May, 2013) which contrasts directly with the dialogue. Such pointed and direct dialogue and plot line follow throughs are why the 2013 year is ignored.

Further, even though Feige didn't say it, he also didn't contradict or correct, which I feel he'd do, even if to say its an unspecific amount of time later (so as to avoid getting pinned down and causing problems as the Homecoming 8 years later tag did... but which they pretty quickly retconned/fixed in Infinity War).

Tony's seemingly fresh PTSD attacks also indicates it hasn't been too long after events of Avengers. I'd think Happy or Rhodey or Pepper would've witnessed one before the events of the film if it was indeed a year and a half later instead of six months, just due to law of averages/odds.

Like I said before, the evidence for placing it in December 2012 outweighs the prop newspaper date in my opinion. Especially in regards to how it affects Agents of SHIELD. Think about the fact the major Avengers related events in Thor - The Dark World and Captain America - Winter Soldier were both covered and referenced extensively on Agents of SHIELD, but for some reason NOT the major events occurring in Iron Man 3? There's a reason for that.

The dialogue in the film, the elements used in AoS's first episode, the fact the show so heavily relies on events from the two big Avengers related characters but makes no mention of events of Iron Man 3 in real time (as was done for the other shows). If Iron Man 3 was meant to occur in December, 2013, why was there no mention of President being kidnapped, super soldiers powered by Extremis, Tony Stark being AWOL, etc? It just doesn't add up. Granted Season 1 ends before events of IM3 occur over days leading up to Christmas based on my timeline (but others lay out AoS Season 1 and Winter Soldier in real time), but you'd think there'd have been a mention in Season 2 of such an event?

 

[DE23111]

Yeah, I'm not really relying on the six month mention (whether real or not) or the novelization for the timeline. That stuff is non-canon since its not seen or mentioned in actual canon material. I'll utilize that type of info if there is no other source and it doesn't conflict with anything established in canon, but I'm simply using the implied timeline from the film itself and Agents of SHIELD. The prop newspaper does place it in Dec 2013, but the dialogue and 13 years later dialogue (from December 31, 1999) place it in December 2012. This is reinforced by Agent of SHIELD's Pilot episode using the Extremis plot line. The intention was clear to follow that on from what occurred i in Iron Man 3. The Dec 2013 date on the prop was simply a mistake, since the film came out in 2013 they used the real world timing (somewhat as the film released in May, 2013) which contrasts directly with the dialogue. Such pointed and direct dialogue and plot line follow throughs are why the 2013 year is ignored.

Further, even though Feige didn't say it, he also didn't contradict or correct, which I feel he'd do, even if to say its an unspecific amount of time later (so as to avoid getting pinned down and causing problems as the Homecoming 8 years later tag did... but which they pretty quickly retconned/fixed in Infinity War).

Tony's seemingly fresh PTSD attacks also indicates it hasn't been too long after events of Avengers. I'd think Happy or Rhodey or Pepper would've witnessed one before the events of the film if it was indeed a year and a half later instead of six months, just due to law of averages/odds.

Like I said before, the evidence for placing it in December 2012 outweighs the prop newspaper date in my opinion. Especially in regards to how it affects Agents of SHIELD. Think about the fact the major Avengers related events in Thor - The Dark World and Captain America - Winter Soldier were both covered and referenced extensively on Agents of SHIELD, but for some reason NOT the major events occurring in Iron Man 3? There's a reason for that.

The dialogue in the film, the elements used in AoS's first episode, the fact the show so heavily relies on events from the two big Avengers related characters but makes no mention of events of Iron Man 3 in real time (as was done for the other shows). If Iron Man 3 was meant to occur in December, 2013, why was there no mention of President being kidnapped, super soldiers powered by Extremis, Tony Stark being AWOL, etc? It just doesn't add up. Granted Season 1 ends before events of IM3 occur over days leading up to Christmas based on my timeline (but others lay out AoS Season 1 and Winter Soldier in real time), but you'd think there'd have been a mention in Season 2 of such an event?

Okay, I will respond to this and this alone because we have had a pretty lengthy argument about this in the past, and whereas I do enjoy talking about it and hearing other points of view, I don't want to cluster up the chat with this (I am totally wiling to private chat about it though haha)

All of the evidence in the movie indicates it is in 2013. The newspaper date you mentioned is one of them, but there is another prop date as well. Jarvis says he was monitoring the heat signature in incidents over the past twelve months, Tony then pulls up a newspaper indicating that an article was written about it in October of 2013. All of the dialog indicates it is 2013 as well. Aldrich says he presented the idea to Tony 13 years ago, and since the year 2000 is printed all over that convention, in my mind, he means from 2000, but that argument can go either way. Also Tony: Don't tell me there is a twelve year old kid in the car I've never met Mia: He's thirteen. Nine months after conception would be September 2000, 13th birthday September 2013, making him 13 that December. I know there is no kid, and it is a joke, but there is no proof that can indicate to me that the point of the joke isn't actually "Hey, jerk, we actually slept together thirteen years ago. And the kid would be 13" And with so much talk about rounding on this forum, it seems really random to me that in this instance alone the thought of rounding up less than an hour to the year 2000 is so absurd.

Right, he didn't contradict or correct it due to the fact that it was an interview about Thor: The Dark World, so he talked about Thor: The Dark World. Why would he take up time in the interview promoting a new movie, talking about an old movie. And maybe he did, and they cut it do to irrelevance, we can't know.

Pepper did notice. Tony: "I messed up. My fault. I haven't been the same since New York." Pepper: "No kidding." Tony's delayed anxiety disorder hadn't manifested because his anxieties were being channeled into building his suits, preoccupying him. He acknowledges this in the movie. Tony: "I tinker, I do what I know, these suits, they're-" Pepper: "A distraction." Also, there is no set time for when a panic disorder can take effect, as one can go years before a specific event can cause the anxiety to surface. Also, I don't care how little he is sleeping, he built 6 suits between 2008 to 2012. With Jarvis. I'm not saying that 35 suits, most with unique functions such as stealth, radiation, deep sea, etc etc, in a year and a half is incredibly realistic, but it is about three times more realistic than six months.

In my deduction, that is due to SHIELD being scattered in order to find Coulson around that time, as Fury had put all his resources into finding Coulson and they had multiple units around the globe trying to find him, the map in the episode after "The Bridge" shows just how seriously they were taking the manhunt. And you can barely use the, why wasn't this mentioned argument because that is just the nature of the beast with this universe. If we're just discussing Iron Man 3, no TV shows, where was SHIELD at all when the president was kidnapped, he was in danger but they didn't lift a finger. Why? It's not like SHIELD wasn't around before the TV show, they should have stepped in. But because they didn't, we don't assume SHIELD isn't around, just that they were somewhere else.

They are mentioned, albeit subtly, Simmons in Seeds Refers to AIM and Centipede in the same breath as recent events. And also, think the cure. SHIELD and Tony both had a "We need to stabilize Extremis problem" So by the 2012 logic: Tony stabilized Extremis before SHIELD started, Coulson knew about Extremis but didn't know there was a cure (Why?), and SHIELD still had to stabilize Extremis themselves even though Tony had already done it but didn't tell them because he hates saving lives. But the 2013 route: In the Bridge Fitz and Simmons tell Mike: "We're really curious how they stabilized the Extremis in you" to which Mike replies "Oh, that was you guys. Your serum." So to me, it makes more sense that SHIELD would have given the already figured out stabilization formula to Tony for Pepper, rather than Tony stabilizing Pepper and just throwing away the formula forever.

Also, and I think I'm alone on this, but the idea of a high ranking SHIELD operative (Garret) who has gotten his hands on everything from super soldier serum, Chitauri metal, etc etc through black market means getting his hands on a government funded think tank serum such as Extremis isn't super far fetched to me. And the idea of Coulson knowing about a government funded think tank serum is also not that ridiculous. It's listed in government intel. Especially since Coulson is the ONLY one on the team who knows what Extremis is. And you would think that the two scientists on the team would have at least heard about that, considering it was used to kidnap the president and it was all over the news. Which even when they encounter the Extremis, there is no mention, from anyone including Coulson that it was used less than a year ago to kidnap Ellis. Which is weird. Maybe because that hasn't happened yet.

But again, there's no need to blow up the forum here, because I don't think we are going to change each others minds, I will gladly PM about it though if you want. I just wanted to respond at least once, I didn't want it to seem like I was ignoring your side of the argument, because it is well thought out and I appreciate you responding at all. We just see it differently. Which I guess is the fun of all this right? Everyone can see the timeline in different perspectives. We need to hurry up and petition for that published timeline haha

 

[Dallas Kinard]

Hey guys is the following placement a "best guess" scenerio?

Black Panther Chapter 18: "End Credits" (2:13:19 - 2:14:18)

 

[selfishmisery]

Regarding the Wakanda Civil War credits scene, we didn't really see it as a mistake, because there's numerous potential explanations. For example, the comic seems to imply that in the "weeks" since Civil War, they have been trying to come up with a solution for Bucky but haven't found something yet, and have come to the conclusion that for now, the best option is to freeze him. So, in Black Panther, either Bucky has already arrived in Wakanda and Shuri has been trying to come up with a solution, or she's been told about Bucky and that she'll be having to work on him. With the beginning of the film seemingly - and as synopses have said - being T'Challa's first return to Wakanda after his father's death, and the comic saying "weeks later", we decided that it should place after the film, and not before or during the first half.

Also, on my second viewing, I too caught the 10:24 in Fury's car. I didn't catch the clock in Scotland - I can see where it is, from going to that scene on an online version - it's immediately after the Q-ship in Edinburgh flies away. But the angle is very hard to see, and the online versions have the clock-face looking too bright.

Something else that I noticed this time, which weirdly, I hadn't thought of before, was specifics about Thor's hair. It's almost exactly the same as in Ragnarok, including the streaks on the side of his head from Stan Lee's bad haircutting skills. This would also suggest it's been very little time since the events of the film. It's possible that Asgardian hair grows slower than humans, but yeah, just another point there.

I've been doing time zone working and working out the rough timings for all the Infinity War and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. scenes to see how it fits together and where the divides are between days.
The Episode 20 notes are not particularly firmly timed, because there is no next milestone to match it with, like a sunrise to stretch the night's events across - it's just working forwards from the previous timings.
Also, the timings come from an assumption of January 10th-11th, considering it doesn't seem like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. can be later than early January. With Tony's phone saying it's Wednesday, and the S.H.I.E.L.D. events picking up a few days prior in early January, then the earliest it can be is January 10th. So that's the date I used for the timings, with it being the only date I can see working - plus, it's closer to Ragnarok. The sunrise and sunset times would be slightly different depending on the time of year, though, if it were a bit later than January 10th-11th.

But here's the results:

*snip*

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Agamotto]

And as much as I wish I could accept the junior novelization as proof, I can't bring myself to. I think recently the Spiderman Junior novel reinforces the 8 years claim and that also turned out to be false. And also I think in the Thor: The Dark World novelization, ****** survives the Dark Elves, deviating extremely from the movie's plot. So I personally can't trust those things in the slightest.

The junior novel actually said five years, which is almost correct, and can be taken as a bit of rounding. But yeah, the novelisations often contradict events.

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant.

Thank you!




I'm definitely in the Iron Man 3 is set in 2012 camp, because of all the dialogue and the way it fits in with The Avengers and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. But, right on cue, Marvel have actually just confirmed Iron Man 3 takes place in 2012. This book, this page.

I always slightly worry with these things that me not reading these books means I'm missing something. What if they have a timeline mention on other pages? But it's great to have confirmation.

I also found this excerpt from Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Heroes' Journey which says Steve became Captain America in 1942, which is wrong, but we're not clear on the canon status of that book. And https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ODB2+iaVL.jpg from this has Scarlett Johansson saying again that there is 2 years between Civil War and Infinity War, just to add to the evidence. Makes me worry about what I'm missing from these books.

 

[marioxb]

And if you wanna get really technical, it takes place (the present day scenes) in 2012 and 2013. New Year's Eve 2012 to New Year's Day 2013. There. Now everyone wins.

 

[selfishmisery]

Spoiler

No one disappeared in tonight's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

So does that confirm that Infinity War takes place over two days now?

 

[Zorkel567]

"We think of our last few episodes taking place during the film," co-showrunner Jed Whedon said when presented with our math. "You're free to worry about anything you want to worry about," he chuckled, "but for us, really, [Episodes] 19 through 22 are pretty much one day."

tvline.com/2018/05/11/agents-of-shield-recap-season-5-episode-21-save-coulson-or-save-world/

 

[DIrishB]

While it's pretty obvious now, AoS show runner confirms the last four episodes parallel IW fully, covering the 24 hour period or so of the film, more or less, and confirming our theory.

"We think of our last few episodes taking place during the film," co-showrunner Jed Whedon said when presented with our math. "You're free to worry about anything you want to worry about," he chuckled, "but for us, really, [Episodes] 19 through 22 are pretty much one day."

http://tvline.com/2018/05/11/agents-of-shield-recap-season-5-episode-21-save-coulson-or-save-world/

Okay, I will respond to this and this alone because we have had a pretty lengthy argument about this in the past, and whereas I do enjoy talking about it and hearing other points of view, I don't want to cluster up the chat with this (I am totally wiling to private chat about it though haha)

All of the evidence in the movie indicates it is in 2013. The newspaper date you mentioned is one of them, but there is another prop date as well. Jarvis says he was monitoring the heat signature in incidents over the past twelve months, Tony then pulls up a newspaper indicating that an article was written about it in October of 2013. All of the dialog indicates it is 2013 as well. Aldrich says he presented the idea to Tony 13 years ago, and since the year 2000 is printed all over that convention, in my mind, he means from 2000, but that argument can go either way. Also Tony: Don't tell me there is a twelve year old kid in the car I've never met Mia: He's thirteen. Nine months after conception would be September 2000, 13th birthday September 2013, making him 13 that December. I know there is no kid, and it is a joke, but there is no proof that can indicate to me that the point of the joke isn't actually "Hey, jerk, we actually slept together thirteen years ago. And the kid would be 13" And with so much talk about rounding on this forum, it seems really random to me that in this instance alone the thought of rounding up less than an hour to the year 2000 is so absurd.

Right, he didn't contradict or correct it due to the fact that it was an interview about Thor: The Dark World, so he talked about Thor: The Dark World. Why would he take up time in the interview promoting a new movie, talking about an old movie. And maybe he did, and they cut it do to irrelevance, we can't know.

Pepper did notice. Tony: "I messed up. My fault. I haven't been the same since New York." Pepper: "No kidding." Tony's delayed anxiety disorder hadn't manifested because his anxieties were being channeled into building his suits, preoccupying him. He acknowledges this in the movie. Tony: "I tinker, I do what I know, these suits, they're-" Pepper: "A distraction." Also, there is no set time for when a panic disorder can take effect, as one can go years before a specific event can cause the anxiety to surface. Also, I don't care how little he is sleeping, he built 6 suits between 2008 to 2012. With Jarvis. I'm not saying that 35 suits, most with unique functions such as stealth, radiation, deep sea, etc etc, in a year and a half is incredibly realistic, but it is about three times more realistic than six months.

In my deduction, that is due to SHIELD being scattered in order to find Coulson around that time, as Fury had put all his resources into finding Coulson and they had multiple units around the globe trying to find him, the map in the episode after "The Bridge" shows just how seriously they were taking the manhunt. And you can barely use the, why wasn't this mentioned argument because that is just the nature of the beast with this universe. If we're just discussing Iron Man 3, no TV shows, where was SHIELD at all when the president was kidnapped, he was in danger but they didn't lift a finger. Why? It's not like SHIELD wasn't around before the TV show, they should have stepped in. But because they didn't, we don't assume SHIELD isn't around, just that they were somewhere else.

They are mentioned, albeit subtly, Simmons in Seeds Refers to AIM and Centipede in the same breath as recent events. And also, think the cure. SHIELD and Tony both had a "We need to stabilize Extremis problem" So by the 2012 logic: Tony stabilized Extremis before SHIELD started, Coulson knew about Extremis but didn't know there was a cure (Why?), and SHIELD still had to stabilize Extremis themselves even though Tony had already done it but didn't tell them because he hates saving lives. But the 2013 route: In the Bridge Fitz and Simmons tell Mike: "We're really curious how they stabilized the Extremis in you" to which Mike replies "Oh, that was you guys. Your serum." So to me, it makes more sense that SHIELD would have given the already figured out stabilization formula to Tony for Pepper, rather than Tony stabilizing Pepper and just throwing away the formula forever.

Also, and I think I'm alone on this, but the idea of a high ranking SHIELD operative (Garret) who has gotten his hands on everything from super soldier serum, Chitauri metal, etc etc through black market means getting his hands on a government funded think tank serum such as Extremis isn't super far fetched to me. And the idea of Coulson knowing about a government funded think tank serum is also not that ridiculous. It's listed in government intel. Especially since Coulson is the ONLY one on the team who knows what Extremis is. And you would think that the two scientists on the team would have at least heard about that, considering it was used to kidnap the president and it was all over the news. Which even when they encounter the Extremis, there is no mention, from anyone including Coulson that it was used less than a year ago to kidnap Ellis. Which is weird. Maybe because that hasn't happened yet.

But again, there's no need to blow up the forum here, because I don't think we are going to change each others minds, I will gladly PM about it though if you want. I just wanted to respond at least once, I didn't want it to seem like I was ignoring your side of the argument, because it is well thought out and I appreciate you responding at all. We just see it differently. Which I guess is the fun of all this right? Everyone can see the timeline in different perspectives. We need to hurry up and petition for that published timeline haha

No blowing up involved, and you've made a well researched and convincing argument, but again, I think it's pretty clear what the intent was. It's all a matter of perspective.

Hey guys is the following placement a "best guess" scenerio?

Black Panther Chapter 18: "End Credits" (2:13:19 - 2:14:18)

I'm not at home so can't check directly, is that the post credit scene with Bucky and Shuri?

If so, it's a best guess case. We don't know exactly how long Bucky was under for, exactly, other than a vague "months" from the IW comic Prequel.

The junior novel actually said five years, which is almost correct, and can be taken as a bit of rounding. But yeah, the novelisations often contradict events.



Thank you!




I'm definitely in the Iron Man 3 is set in 2012 camp, because of all the dialogue and the way it fits in with The Avengers and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. But, right on cue, Marvel have actually just confirmed Iron Man 3 takes place in 2012. This book, this page.

THANK YOU!

I always slightly worry with these things that me not reading these books means I'm missing something. What if they have a timeline mention on other pages? But it's great to have confirmation.

I also found this excerpt from Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War: The Heroes' Journey which says Steve became Captain America in 1942, which is wrong, but we're not clear on the canon status of that book. And https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ODB2+iaVL.jpg from this has Scarlett Johansson saying again that there is 2 years between Civil War and Infinity War, just to add to the evidence. Makes me worry about what I'm missing from these books.

Dude, the level of detail in the research you do is incredible. It makes me look like an amateur. DE23111's detailed research (even if I disagree with his IM3 conclusions) is also insanely detailed. The community as a whole is why this timeline is as detailed and pored over as it is. It would be riddled with mistakes without you guys and the input and corrections and suggestions and reasoning and details caught that I miss are invaluable.

And please don't take my timeline debates personally. While I do so passionately, I never want or intend debates and arguments to be taken personal. I know tempers flare, mine especially, but ultimately it's all in good fun based around a universe we all clearly love and obsess over, and I really do value the community aspect and input of this project.

Ultimately I really need to begin on a detailed breakdown of WHY things are placed as they are, using all the detailed evidence provided in the films, shows, comics, and shorts, especially to explain where and why my timeline somewhat deviates from the onscreen one established with IM2's six months later tag to align with Avengers in 2012 and IM2/IH/Thor having to occur a year before, in 2011, and the various other explanations for timeline discrepancies.

Spoiler

No one disappeared in tonight's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

So does that confirm that Infinity War takes place over two days now?

Nope, just one day, see link at beginning of my novel length post.

Jed Whedon confirms the final four episodes cover around a 24 hour period paralleling Infinity War. You should see people start disappearing at end of next week's season finale... presumably. I mean they sort of have to. They went out of their way to mention Thanos and events of attack on New York, and while I haven't watched last night's episode yet, the preview for it from end of last week's episode indicated this episode picked up soon after previous one, likely in morning or midday Eastern time (I think Talbot's family lives in Virginia but could be wrong), before Thanos' army arrives and the battle in Wakanda begins. Probably around same time, or soon after, the Avengers HQ scene with Rhodes and Ross. And presumably next week's final episode will parallel that battle in Wakanda and the battle between Thanos and various characters on Titan, and end with some of the agents turning dust.

It'd also be amazingly cool if somehow a Captain Marvel icon appeared on a computer screen on the bus or at the Lighthouse to tie in with IW's post credit scene without directly spoiling it for those who haven't seen the film... well, beyond the Captain Marvel icon, which admittedly is pretty big but it'd make sense thematically and offer a sort of full circle ending for Coulson if he does indeed die next episode. In terms of his first big mission (reportedly he's a rookie or newer agent in Captain Marvel) that largely set him on his path originating largely with Captain Marvel, the season ending with that appearing onscreen amidst the emotional devastation of agents turning to dust but buoyed by the hope of CM coming to save the day in A4 has a nice symmetry to it, and both foreshadows and falls back both CM and A4.

It also remains to be seen if the show will be renewed for Season 6 (we'll probably find out for sure at ABC's upfront in a couple days, if not sooner).

 

[DIrishB]

tvline.com/2018/05/11/agents-of-shield-recap-season-5-episode-21-save-coulson-or-save-world/

Lol, you beat me to it by a few minutes. You must've posted this while I was typing my novel length response, heh.

 

[Craig]

There might be a slight problem with the 24-hours thing. Last night took place during the day (day after Maw and Cull in NY) but then there's an establishing shot of a quintet getting to the lighthouse and the sun is setting. You can ignore it, but it's already conflicting with the clock in Fury's car, so maybe it's best to split up IW like this:

Day 1: Maw and Cull attack Dr. Strange
Night 1: (AOS 5x19-20) Cap rescues Vision. Everyone flies back to their secret base, presumably in Lebanon and gets some sleep.
Day 2: (AOS 5x21) Fly to Avengers HQ.
Night 2: Fly to Wakanda, get there in morning.
Day 3: (AOS 5x22) The snap.

This more or less works if you pad the time every one was traveling (to Titan, Nidavellir, Knowhere). And sorry if this is just a less detailed breakdown of what Agamotto posted the other day. It's a supreme pain in the ass trying to read spoiler tags on my phone.

 

[Zorkel567]

Lol, you beat me to it by a few minutes. You must've posted this while I was typing my novel length response, heh.

Haha, yeah. I saw it and figured I should make sure it got seen.

 

[DIrishB]

There might be a slight problem with the 24-hours thing. Last night took place during the day (day after Maw and Cull in NY) but then there's an establishing shot of a quintet getting to the lighthouse and the sun is setting. You can ignore it, but it's already conflicting with the clock in Fury's car, so maybe it's best to split up IW like this:

Day 1: Maw and Cull attack Dr. Strange
Night 1: (AOS 5x19-20) Cap rescues Vision. Everyone flies back to their secret base, presumably in Lebanon and gets some sleep.
Day 2: (AOS 5x21) Fly to Avengers HQ.
Night 2: Fly to Wakanda, get there in morning.
Day 3: (AOS 5x22) The snap.

This more or less works if you pad the time every one was traveling (to Titan, Nidavellir, Knowhere). And sorry if this is just a less detailed breakdown of what Agamotto posted the other day. It's a supreme pain in the ass trying to read spoiler tags on my phone.

Only problem with this approach is it creates a rather large plot hole.

Remember, in the film, when Cap, Widow, and the others save Vision and Wanda, they know they're after Vision's Infinity Stone, and are obviously in a hurry to get to Avengers HQ to get Vision to a more secured position. They even establish on the Quinjet immediately after they rescue Vision and Wanda that they're heading to the HQ. There's no logical reason for them to stop and rest and increase odds of Thanos getting the Stone. Same with Wakanda. Again, it's a race against time, and it would run counter to the character motivations and overall plot to assume.

It also creates potential issues with the flow of the other plotlines, but since they're off planet it's impossible to discern a specific time span outside of how it corresponds to the other scenes set on Earth.

Based on Jed Whedon's response, it seems like he's indirectly admitting they screwed up on the timeline a bit, probably specifically to the day/night cycle in relation to Wakanda and time zone differences. I'm sure at least a few hardcore fans noticed that discrepancy.

All that said your suggestion may end up being best approach. I'll let the last episode air and that way I can better map out those last four episodes against the film.

 

[DE23111]

There might be a slight problem with the 24-hours thing. Last night took place during the day (day after Maw and Cull in NY) but then there's an establishing shot of a quintet getting to the lighthouse and the sun is setting. You can ignore it, but it's already conflicting with the clock in Fury's car, so maybe it's best to split up IW like this:

Day 1: Maw and Cull attack Dr. Strange
Night 1: (AOS 5x19-20) Cap rescues Vision. Everyone flies back to their secret base, presumably in Lebanon and gets some sleep.
Day 2: (AOS 5x21) Fly to Avengers HQ.
Night 2: Fly to Wakanda, get there in morning.
Day 3: (AOS 5x22) The snap.

This more or less works if you pad the time every one was traveling (to Titan, Nidavellir, Knowhere). And sorry if this is just a less detailed breakdown of what Agamotto posted the other day. It's a supreme pain in the ass trying to read spoiler tags on my phone.

Watching the episode I noticed

Spoiler

When Talbot visits the hospital the time is 23:34 or something like that, I know the hour is right, but I'm not sure about the minute value. But when Talbot visits his son, it is daylight out, but more than likely very early morning given that is his first seen stop after the hospital, so if we rounded that to a good six or seven AM taking into account that sunrise you mentioned, that still gives the finale (Which I'm sure will pick up immediately after this episode) about three or four hours to do the deed.

 

[Craig]

Only problem with this approach is it creates a rather large plot hole.

Remember, in the film, when Cap, Widow, and the others save Vision and Wanda, they know they're after Vision's Infinity Stone, and are obviously in a hurry to get to Avengers HQ to get Vision to a more secured position. They even establish on the Quinjet immediately after they rescue Vision and Wanda that they're heading to the HQ. There's no logical reason for them to stop and rest and increase odds of Thanos getting the Stone. Same with Wakanda. Again, it's a race against time, and it would run counter to the character motivations and overall plot to assume.

It also creates potential issues with the flow of the other plotlines, but since they're off planet it's impossible to discern a specific time span outside of how it corresponds to the other scenes set on Earth.

I totally agree the movie works better as just one day. Just throwing up no-prizes.

But like Hitchcock said, movies are just like life but without the boring parts. Maybe Cap left the stove on in Lebanon, Tony/Peter/Strange had a sleepover on the Q-ship, the Guardians combed over Knowhere looking for clues and Rocket made a wrong turn in Shi'ar Space and added a day to Thor's quest.

We also have no idea how long Thanos was unconscious after acquiring the Soul Stone. Which would just mean everyone waited around a long time ready to spring the ambush on Titan.

Based on Jed Whedon's response, it seems like he's indirectly admitting they screwed up on the timeline a bit, probably specifically to the day/night cycle in relation to Wakanda and time zone differences. I'm sure at least a few hardcore fans noticed that discrepancy.

All that said your suggestion may end up being best approach. I'll let the last episode air and that way I can better map out those last four episodes against the film.

Agreed. We'll see next Friday!

Watching the episode I noticed

Spoiler

When Talbot visits the hospital the time is 23:34 or something like that, I know the hour is right, but I'm not sure about the minute value. But when Talbot visits his son, it is daylight out, but more than likely very early morning given that is his first seen stop after the hospital, so if we rounded that to a good six or seven AM taking into account that sunrise you mentioned, that still gives the finale (Which I'm sure will pick up immediately after this episode) about three or four hours to do the deed.

This is all correct except you're forgetting that the episode ends around dusk. It honestly doesn't make any sense being that late, so maybe we can chalk it up to an errant establishing shot.

I'm wondering if this could all be fixed by just assuming Candyman was talking about something else in episode 19. That would just mean the Confederacy somehow knew Thanos was coming even before he attacked Asgard.

 

[DE23111]

I totally agree the movie works better as just one day. Just throwing up no-prizes.

But like Hitchcock said, movies are just like life but without the boring parts. Maybe Cap left the stove on in Lebanon, Tony/Peter/Strange had a sleepover on the Q-ship, the Guardians combed over Knowhere looking for clues and Rocket made a wrong turn in ShiÂ'ar Space and added a day to ThorÂ's quest.

We also have no idea how long Thanos was unconscious after acquiring the Soul Stone. Which would just mean everyone waited around a long time ready to spring the ambush on Titan.



Agreed. WeÂ'll see next Friday!



This is all correct except youÂ're forgetting that the episode ends around dusk. It honestly doesnÂ't make any sense being that late, so maybe we can chalk it up to an errant establishing shot.

IÂ'm wondering if this could all be fixed by just assuming Candyman was talking about something else in episode 19. That would just mean the Confederacy somehow knew Thanos was coming even before he attacked Asgard.

I think the shot I attached is the one you are referring to, and if that it is the case it looks to me to be more dawn than dusk. And if they arrive at dawn, I know what you're thinking, the sun was already up for Mack and Yo Yo, how could it be dawn? Thanks for asking, me. Probably because

Spoiler

Thematically they wanted there not to be a bridge between Coulson fainting and the cliffhanger ending

So, honestly it's probably just a bit out of order for pacing purposes I would look at it as

Spoiler

Mack and YoYo leave to get Talbot--Deke and May make it back (Mack YoYo not shown)--Daisy and Coulson land (I assume they pass him off to FitSimmons to stabilize him and run tests--May comes in to check on him--Simultaneously to the tests being performed Mack and YoYo have their encounter with Talbot around 6 or 7ish (Totally spotted Virginia license plates in that scene, so good call whoever said that's where the Talbot's live)--(This is complete assumption) Some one picks up Mack and YoYo from Virginia (due to the fact that their vehicles are destroyed and Davis has the plane--When those two return to base everyone has the discussion on what to do about Coulson and Talbot

That's just what I'm thinkin'. Plus,I'm not entirely sure what else the Candyman would be talking about. He references aliens in New York..that just feels really...specific.

[/URL][/IMG]

Sorry for the blurry picture. It's only 480p. But it's at about the 38-39 mark on Hulu if anyone is interested in a 1080 look

 

[Craig]

I think the shot I attached is the one you are referring to, and if that it is the case it looks to me to be more dawn than dusk. And if they arrive at dawn, I know what you're thinking, the sun was already up for Mack and Yo Yo, how could it be dawn? Thanks for asking, me. Probably because

Spoiler

Thematically they wanted there not to be a bridge between Coulson fainting and the cliffhanger ending

So, honestly it's probably just a bit out of order for pacing purposes I would look at it as

Spoiler

Mack and YoYo leave to get Talbot--Deke and May make it back (Mack YoYo not shown)--Daisy and Coulson land (I assume they pass him off to FitSimmons to stabilize him and run tests--May comes in to check on him--Simultaneously to the tests being performed Mack and YoYo have their encounter with Talbot around 6 or 7ish (Totally spotted Virginia license plates in that scene, so good call whoever said that's where the Talbot's live)--(This is complete assumption) Some one picks up Mack and YoYo from Virginia (due to the fact that their vehicles are destroyed and Davis has the plane--When those two return to base everyone has the discussion on what to do about Coulson and Talbot

This could work. I'll have to rewatch and see.

I have to disagree about the dusk/dawn thing though. Definitely looks like PM, color wise. Plus the little bit of sun showing itself is on the right. The lighthouse is in NY and the ocean/East is on the left. Therefore the sun is setting.

 

[selfishmisery]

This could work. I'll have to rewatch and see.

I have to disagree about the dusk/dawn thing though. Definitely looks like PM, color wise. Plus the little bit of sun showing itself is on the right. The lighthouse is in NY and the ocean/East is on the left. Therefore the sun is setting.

I thought the Lighthouse was in Lake Ontario, Canada?

 

[crafty100]

Spoiler

Is it safe to say there is a good chance no one will fade out in AoS? Given that it's highly probable that time will be revered to bring people back, it will be as if it never happened at all, thus not having an effect on any show. Don't see this notion get acknowledged any where online

 

[Lebnyx]

Spoiler

Is it safe to say there is a good chance no one will fade out in AoS? Given that it's highly probable that time will be revered to bring people back, it will be as if it never happened at all, thus not having an effect on any show. Don't see this notion get acknowledged any where online

Spoiler

I'm not sure if there is a good chance no one will fade out, but I agree it's possible. If Thanos' snap kills half of the universe randomly, it's possible that it either affects half of the cast of AoS, all of them, none of them, or a few of them.

 

[DE23111]

This could work. I'll have to rewatch and see.

I have to disagree about the dusk/dawn thing though. Definitely looks like PM, color wise. Plus the little bit of sun showing itself is on the right. The lighthouse is in NY and the ocean/East is on the left. Therefore the sun is setting.

Then I don't know, but I just can't wrap my head around them being on that ship for a full day. We'll just have to wait for next week, which seems to have day time footage, so if it's dusk, they're waiting like 12 hours to act. Which is odd. But I'm sure there will be a big ol'

Spoiler

SNAP

next episode and then we can date it backwards. Which is always easier.

 

[Craig]

I thought the Lighthouse was in Lake Ontario, Canada?

Damn, got me. River's End is in NY, but I never realized it was on Lake Ontario (always thought it was closer to NYC, I guess from Noah saying "an Asgardian in the city".) So from that still, the sun either would come up on the right or straight in front of the camera. So the "pacing purposes" theory might still hold up.

 

[DE23111]

Damn, got me. River's End is in NY, but I never realized it was on Lake Ontario. So from that still, the sun either would come up on the right or straight in front of the camera. So the "pacing purposes" theory might still hold up.

I know nothing of sunrises and sunsets or basic navigation so this is all going right over my head. But I did some digging and the light house that they shoot those scenes at is actually located in Maine, but I'm not sure if they would manipulate it or whatever to convey what they are trying to convey.

 

[Craig]

I know nothing of sunrises and sunsets or basic navigation so this is all going right over my head. But I did some digging and the light house that they shoot those scenes at is actually located in Maine, but I'm not sure if they would manipulate it or whatever to convey what they are trying to convey.

If it's filmed in Maine, that supports my initial findings of the sun actually setting. But I think your pacing/editing idea is the best way to look at it, since it would be a fairly short trip for Coulson to get there. Or just pretend it was fully light out lol.

 

[DE23111]

If it's filmed in Maine, that supports my initial findings of the sun actually setting. But I think your pacing/editing idea is the best way to look at it, since it would be a fairly short trip for Coulson to get there. Or just pretend it was fully light out lol.

Either way, we will probably know next week when the show

Spoiler

rips our hearts out again.

 

[crafty100]

Spoiler

I'm not sure if there is a good chance no one will fade out, but I agree it's possible. If Thanos' snap kills half of the universe randomly, it's possible that it either affects half of the cast of AoS, all of them, none of them, or a few of them.

Spoiler

It's not about whether they would fade due to it being a 50/50 chance. But if the movie super heroes reverse time so it was as if Thanos never clicked his fingers and no one faded, then no one in the shows would disappear. The only people that would be aware it happened and remember are those involved in reversing time, assuming they resolve it that way.

 

[Lebnyx]

Spoiler

It's not about whether they would fade due to it being a 50/50 chance. But if the movie super heroes reverse time so it was as if Thanos never clicked his fingers and no one faded, then no one in the shows would disappear. The only people that would be aware it happened and remember are those involved in reversing time, assuming they resolve it that way.

Sure, but it depends on whether season 6 is made and takes place post-snap, and how they resolve it in Avengers 4. If season 6 does happen and members of the cast die, then season 6 would continue on from there, and if time is reversed in Avengers 4 so that no one ends up dying, I'd assume the same would apply to AoS.

 

[DE23111]

Spoiler

It's not about whether they would fade due to it being a 50/50 chance. But if the movie super heroes reverse time so it was as if Thanos never clicked his fingers and no one faded, then no one in the shows would disappear. The only people that would be aware it happened and remember are those involved in reversing time, assuming they resolve it that way.

I REEEEEEEEALLLY don't think they are going to run the risk of spoiling Avengers 4 by having nobody fade.Especially since Jed has officiallycomeout and said that the two events are happening simultaneously.

 

[crafty100]

Sure, but it depends on whether season 6 is made and takes place post-snap, and how they resolve it in Avengers 4. If season 6 does happen and members of the cast die, then season 6 would continue on from there, and if time is reversed in Avengers 4 so that no one ends up dying, I'd assume the same would apply to AoS.

Spoiler

But if time is reversed the cast of Shield would not be aware it happened, therefore we would not see it unfold, it would be as if it never happened. Would be a waste of potentially the last season having the same arc twice with a different amount of characters if they did decide to show it.

I REEEEEEEEALLLY don't think they are going to run the risk of spoiling Avengers 4 by having nobody fade.Especially since Jed has officiallycomeout and said that the two events are happening simultaneously.

Spoiler

Same response, if time is reversed in some way, it wouldn't have an effect on the show

 

[DIrishB]

Watching the episode I noticed

Spoiler

When Talbot visits the hospital the time is 23:34 or something like that, I know the hour is right, but I'm not sure about the minute value. But when Talbot visits his son, it is daylight out, but more than likely very early morning given that is his first seen stop after the hospital, so if we rounded that to a good six or seven AM taking into account that sunrise you mentioned, that still gives the finale (Which I'm sure will pick up immediately after this episode) about three or four hours to do the deed.

Yup, was just about to mention that. I'm still watching episode, but at the 17:15 mark the security camera footage shows it as 23:24:06:19, so 11:24 PM, which corresponds to the fact no outdoor shots are utilized in the episode so far until that point (just interiors on the space ship, bus, Lighthouse, and hospital so far), so that checks out and works. I'll see if there's anything of note later in the episode.

And your reasoning is sound. Hopefully it all ends up working out without a hitch.

I totally agree the movie works better as just one day. Just throwing up no-prizes.

But like Hitchcock said, movies are just like life but without the boring parts. Maybe Cap left the stove on in Lebanon, Tony/Peter/Strange had a sleepover on the Q-ship, the Guardians combed over Knowhere looking for clues and Rocket made a wrong turn in Shi'ar Space and added a day to Thor's quest.

We also have no idea how long Thanos was unconscious after acquiring the Soul Stone. Which would just mean everyone waited around a long time ready to spring the ambush on Titan.

No doubt, but remember Occam's razor ("In a case of two competing explanations for an occurrence, the simpler one is usually better and the more likely. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is.").

Agreed. We'll see next Friday!

Yeah, like I said I think Jed basically indirectly admitted they fudged up the timeline some in that quote confirming it occurs over a 24 hour period. I just think they screwed up the day/night cycle/time of day in regards to that ending dusk shot you mentioned and the time zone factor in relation to the apparent time of day in Wakanda. Thats likely just an unfortunate side effect of aligning the TV show with the film's events, which is hard to pin down since the film is still in editing process and having final touches put on it at the time these episodes were likely written/filmed (probably 3 months back or so, maybe sooner, not sure of the production schedule but the specifics aren't important anyway). That disconnect between the films and TV side is largely inevitable and necessary due to the fact the films change during production, right up to late production, reshoots, and edits, which can sometimes drastically alter a film (Ron Howard reshooting 70% of Solo is a good example), or even in a minor way in terms of how it affects the finished product. The number of days that pass in IW could've been altered from 2 to around 1 in editing process, if perhaps it was originally intended as 2 in original script (perhaps Russos wanted to tighten the timeline up to instill a more apparent sense of urgency?). And the AoS writers may have been going off the shooting script, and not been informed of the change in the editing process. The number of moving parts on all the different productions going on at any one time in the MCU is massive at this point, so mistakes and disconnect and lack of perfect symmetry is to be expected.

Its kind of why I hope Marvel Studios hires a team similar to Lucasfilm's Story Group who keep continuity all in check, but also all the various working parts to ensure plot synergy and merchandising/advertising aspects. And don't forget, the MCU is significantly larger than the rebooted SW universe, so there's more ground to cover and keep track of. Who can monitor all the various productions and ensure they all fit into the puzzle correctly.

We'll see if we can't come up with a workable solution, and if not then we can perhaps chalk it up to timeline shenanigans of the Time Stone... though that would mean the Titan battle when Thanos finally obtains it would have to occur beforehand... which I don't think works either.

Spoiler

Is it safe to say there is a good chance no one will fade out in AoS? Given that it's highly probable that time will be revered to bring people back, it will be as if it never happened at all, thus not having an effect on any show. Don't see this notion get acknowledged any where online

Its entirely possible, and something I've seen mentioned in a few places, namely due to the rumors/evidence to support the idea of time travel in A4 from shooting leaks seemingly replicating events of Avengers, time travel approach/alternate or "corrected" timeline is a very real possibility. We'll just have to wait and see next year when it comes out.

That said, I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't tie into events of Infinity War's ending in some way. Especially as release date wise, the show clearly aligning with and paralleling IW has laid groundwork that the events of the film will have direct impact on the show. To NOT address that in the season finale (or series finale depending on if it gets a Season 6) would create a weird and unnecessary disconnect for the audience, and also kind of indirectly spoil how they'd resolve these events in A4.

So, odds are some folks are gonna disappear. All we can do is wait.

I thought the Lighthouse was in Lake Ontario, Canada?

It's actually Lake Ontario, New York. So, right on the border with Canada, but its in US, least according to the MCU wiki. The underground structure of the Lighthouse is built under the lake itself, but the lighthouse/entrance itself (and probably entirety of the underground base) is on US side of the border.