DC Animated Movie Universe - Timeline (continued)

iammattie

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I went through James Tucker's Twitter feed to make notes for another video now that Apokolips War is almost here. Figured I'd share relevant findings here in case they prove helpful.



Keeping the fact that the date in Hush didn't line up with any of the other dates, and James Tucker suggested nin a DM with me that none of those dates actually mean anything, I decided to piece things together just based off of his comments. Right now it's looking like:

  • Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox
  • 1 Year Before JLW - Wonder Woman: Bloodlines [Intro begins]
  • Damian Age 10/11 - Son of Batman
  • Justice League: War
  • Damian Age 10.5-11 - Justice League: Throne of Atlantis/Nightwing and Robin
  • Damian Age 12 - Batman vs Robin
  • Damian Age 13 - Batman: Bad Blood
  • Damian Age 14 - Justice League vs. Teen Titans
  • Damian Age 15 - Teen Titans: The Judas Contract
  • The Death of Superman
  • Reign of the Supermen
  • Batman:Hush
  • 4 Years after JLW - Wonder Woman Bloodlines
    • Given that only 4 years have passed since War, Damian would be 15

TBD:
  • Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay (2018)
    • After Batman Bad Blood as Blockbuster dies here
  • Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay (Comic)
    • Giganta is marked deceased on DCAMU Wiki. I forget if this happened in Bloodlines, but if so this comic must come first. After skimming the comic, it seems like it doesn't occur there.
  • Justice League Dark (2017)
    • After SSH2P Comic due to Jason Blood continuity
  • Constantine City of Demons
  • TTGvTT

Given that he's indicated only 4 years have passed from JL War to Bloodlines, that would also seem to indicate that Judas Contract would then be the same year as that film given Damian's age. This means it's possible that the TBD films, as well as the films from Death to Hush could take place in the year gap between Titans films. Going through the films again right now to refresh myself as I'm sure there's some narowing down that can be done. I imagine that JLD:AW may at the very least help pin down the SS->JLD continuity thread.
 

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This was probably already posted, but I'm too lazy to go back and sift through 11 pages. I just re-watched Judas Contract and spotted a newspaper. It's hard to read, but I believe it firmly places the film in 2016.
View attachment 207

Edit: Another thing. Throne Of Atlantis has to occur at least a few weeks after War due to Steve Trevor's facial hair.
1. Yep, it was.
2. Nice. Considering the placement of everything, I think that what I have works, being ambiguous. At least, say, 16 days.
 
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iammattie

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Just finished Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay in my re-watch marathon. They say Waller was given 6 months to live. Current timeline placement has 3-4 years between that film and Hush. Given that Tucker said H2P was initially conceived to be between Death and Reign, I suggest setting it and JL Dark shortly before Death. They can't be between due to Superman being in Dark, and can't be after due to the costume change in Reign. We get a 6 month gap between those two films, and it makes much more sense for her diagnosis to be off by days/weeks/months than by 3-4 years.
 

Dallas Kinard

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Just finished Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay in my re-watch marathon. They say Waller was given 6 months to live. Current timeline placement has 3-4 years between that film and Hush. Given that Tucker said H2P was initially conceived to be between Death and Reign, I suggest setting it and JL Dark shortly before Death. They can't be between due to Superman being in Dark, and can't be after due to the costume change in Reign. We get a 6 month gap between those two films, and it makes much more sense for her diagnosis to be off by days/weeks/months than by 3-4 years.
Good catch.
 

iammattie

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Watched Apokolips War last night
There's a 2 year gap between the intro and the main section of the film. Amanda Waller is said to have died during that
So I imagine the start is as close as possible to the Reign/Hush/Bloodlines section of the timeline with the rest of the film taking place 2 years later.
 

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I went through James Tucker's Twitter feed to make notes for another video now that Apokolips War is almost here. Figured I'd share relevant findings here in case they prove helpful.



Keeping the fact that the date in Hush didn't line up with any of the other dates, and James Tucker suggested nin a DM with me that none of those dates actually mean anything, I decided to piece things together just based off of his comments. Right now it's looking like:

  • Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox
  • 1 Year Before JLW - Wonder Woman: Bloodlines [Intro begins]
  • Damian Age 10/11 - Son of Batman
  • Justice League: War
  • Damian Age 10.5-11 - Justice League: Throne of Atlantis/Nightwing and Robin
  • Damian Age 12 - Batman vs Robin
  • Damian Age 13 - Batman: Bad Blood
  • Damian Age 14 - Justice League vs. Teen Titans
  • Damian Age 15 - Teen Titans: The Judas Contract
  • The Death of Superman
  • Reign of the Supermen
  • Batman:Hush
  • 4 Years after JLW - Wonder Woman Bloodlines
    • Given that only 4 years have passed since War, Damian would be 15

TBD:
  • Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay (2018)
    • After Batman Bad Blood as Blockbuster dies here
  • Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay (Comic)
    • Giganta is marked deceased on DCAMU Wiki. I forget if this happened in Bloodlines, but if so this comic must come first. After skimming the comic, it seems like it doesn't occur there.
  • Justice League Dark (2017)
    • After SSH2P Comic due to Jason Blood continuity
  • Constantine City of Demons
  • TTGvTT

Given that he's indicated only 4 years have passed from JL War to Bloodlines, that would also seem to indicate that Judas Contract would then be the same year as that film given Damian's age. This means it's possible that the TBD films, as well as the films from Death to Hush could take place in the year gap between Titans films. Going through the films again right now to refresh myself as I'm sure there's some narowing down that can be done. I imagine that JLD:AW may at the very least help pin down the SS->JLD continuity thread.
Don't they say something similar about the DCAU? How Batman is always X old and Batman Beyond/The Zeta Project is always 50 years from now, completely ignoring the in-universe dates? Aren't most timelines like that? Personally, I like to meld the interpretations together, basing it on in-universe dates while changing things that definitely don't work.
 

Dallas Kinard

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Don't they say something similar about the DCAU? How Batman is always X old and Batman Beyond/The Zeta Project is always 50 years from now, completely ignoring the in-universe dates? Aren't most timelines like that? Personally, I like to meld the interpretations together, basing it on in-universe dates while changing things that definitely don't work.
I've been saying this for years, but people don't listen. The producers are telling a story. The writers don't think about this timeline stuff like we fans do, so they never really give clear, solid answers to timeline questions. It's always been this way. Young Justice is a rare, and I mean very rare, exception to this.
 

iammattie

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Don't they say something similar about the DCAU? How Batman is always X old and Batman Beyond/The Zeta Project is always 50 years from now, completely ignoring the in-universe dates? Aren't most timelines like that? Personally, I like to meld the interpretations together, basing it on in-universe dates while changing things that definitely don't work.
I definitely agree to an extent, trying to figure out a way to do that here. Going back over my notes it seems some of the Tucker tweets aren't even consistent with Damian's reported age in the films (specifically that Batman v Robin states he's 10 and Batman: Bad Blood states Talia has only known Batman for 12 years, so Damian certainly can't be 13. Currently what I'm looking at is more based on the time since Justice League War, while trying to maintain the 4 years passage of time to Wonder Woman Bloodlines. Theoretically that could be up to 5 years, but due to WW's statement that Julia was a second mother the proposed year between the intro and War makes a lot of sense to me. Right now this has left me with:



  • Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox
  • 3 Years BJLW - TT: Judas Contract (Intro)
  • 1 Year BJLW - WW: Bloodlines (Intro)
  • Son of Batman
  • (November?) 0.0 Years AJLW - JL: War
  • (November?) 0.0 Years AJLW - JL: Throne of Atlantis/Nightwing and Robin
    • About a week after JL: War
  • 0.25 Years AJLW - Batman v Robin
    • About 3 months after Throne of Atlantis
    • Damian is 10
  • B: Bad Blood
    • Damian is between 10 to 11 and 3 months
  • 1.0 Years AJLW - JL v TT
    • Doesn't mesh too well with Damian's age, but Tucker's tweet suggesting Beast Boy is 12 suggests younger members are accepted (despite the fact that doesn't work for Beast Boy as he's a member in the 5 years ago flashback)
  • 2.0 Years AJLW - TT: Judas Contract
    • 1 Year after JL v TT post credits
  • 3.5 Years AJLW - SS: Hell to Pay
  • 3.5 Years AJLW - SS: Hell to Pay comic
  • 3.5 Years AJLW - JL Dark
  • 3.5 Years AJLW - Death of Superman
    • Damian's Dog from Judas Contract is matured, typically takes 18 months
  • 4.0 Years AJLW - Reign of the Supermen
    • 6 months after Death of superman
  • 4.0 Years AJLW - B: Hush
  • 4.0 Years AJLW - WW: Bloodlines
  • 4.0 Years AJLW - JLD: Apokolips War (Intro)
    • Roughly 6 months after Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay.
  • 6.0 Years AJLW - JLD: Apokolips War
    • 2 years after films intro
This approach leaves me a bit unsure about the placement of Constantine City of Demons though. If we take that Hell to Pay up to the Apokolips War intro is within 6 months (give or take)then placing City of Demons after Death of Superman takes some weight away from
The Zatanna/Constantine relaionship
in Apokolips War. Though, I don't imagine that's helped much from going by printed dates either since currently, that would put it shortly before Batman Hush (assuming Nov 2016 was supposed to be 2018) and thus pretty close to Apokolips War
Once again, because Waller's death
.

Another point to be made is that the current assumption of the League's fiscal year ending in October for placement of Death/Reign doesn't hold well for Waller only having roughly 6 months to live. Even if we move SS to the same October, the fact that she's still alive in Batman Hush suggests she's made it over a year if we hold the November date, and then another who knows how long before
passing away during the events of Apokolips War.

EDIT: Digging deeper into it, I'm starting to get the impression that City of Demons has been retconned to a JL Dark PRequel as Butch Lukic suggested.
Given that John and Zatanna are together at the start of Apokolips War, and that was teased at the end of JL Dark, as well as the short window of time between the 2 due to Waller's condition.
 
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I definitely agree to an extent, trying to figure out a way to do that here. Going back over my notes it seems some of the Tucker tweets aren't even consistent with Damian's reported age in the films (specifically that Batman v Robin states he's 10 and Batman: Bad Blood states Talia has only known Batman for 12 years, so Damian certainly can't be 13. Currently what I'm looking at is more based on the time since Justice League War, while trying to maintain the 4 years passage of time to Wonder Woman Bloodlines. Theoretically that could be up to 5 years, but due to WW's statement that Julia was a second mother the proposed year between the intro and War makes a lot of sense to me. Right now this has left me with:



  • Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox
  • 3 Years BJLW - TT: Judas Contract (Intro)
  • 1 Year BJLW - WW: Bloodlines (Intro)
  • Son of Batman
  • (November?) 0.0 Years AJLW - JL: War
  • (November?) 0.0 Years AJLW - JL: Throne of Atlantis/Nightwing and Robin
    • About a week after JL: War
  • 0.25 Years AJLW - Batman v Robin
    • About 3 months after Throne of Atlantis
    • Damian is 10
  • B: Bad Blood
    • Damian is between 10 to 11 and 3 months
  • 1.0 Years AJLW - JL v TT
    • Doesn't mesh too well with Damian's age, but Tucker's tweet suggesting Beast Boy is 12 suggests younger members are accepted (despite the fact that doesn't work for Beast Boy as he's a member in the 5 years ago flashback)
  • 2.0 Years AJLW - TT: Judas Contract
    • 1 Year after JL v TT post credits
  • 3.5 Years AJLW - SS: Hell to Pay
  • 3.5 Years AJLW - SS: Hell to Pay comic
  • 3.5 Years AJLW - JL Dark
  • 3.5 Years AJLW - Death of Superman
    • Damian's Dog from Judas Contract is matured, typically takes 18 months
  • 4.0 Years AJLW - Reign of the Supermen
    • 6 months after Death of superman
  • 4.0 Years AJLW - B: Hush
  • 4.0 Years AJLW - WW: Bloodlines
  • 4.0 Years AJLW - JLD: Apokolips War (Intro)
    • Roughly 6 months after Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay.
  • 6.0 Years AJLW - JLD: Apokolips War
    • 2 years after films intro
This approach leaves me a bit unsure about the placement of Constantine City of Demons though. If we take that Hell to Pay up to the Apokolips War intro is within 6 months (give or take)then placing City of Demons after Death of Superman takes some weight away from
The Zatanna/Constantine relaionship
in Apokolips War. Though, I don't imagine that's helped much from going by printed dates either since currently, that would put it shortly before Batman Hush (assuming Nov 2016 was supposed to be 2018) and thus pretty close to Apokolips War
Once again, because Waller's death
.

Another point to be made is that the current assumption of the League's fiscal year ending in October for placement of Death/Reign doesn't hold well for Waller only having roughly 6 months to live. Even if we move SS to the same October, the fact that she's still alive in Batman Hush suggests she's made it over a year if we hold the November date, and then another who knows how long before
passing away during the events of Apokolips War.

EDIT: Digging deeper into it, I'm starting to get the impression that City of Demons has been retconned to a JL Dark PRequel as Butch Lukic suggested.
Given that John and Zatanna are together at the start of Apokolips War, and that was teased at the end of JL Dark, as well as the short window of time between the 2 due to Waller's condition.
Did they say for sure that Waller died during the gap? No way it could be during Batman: Hush's jump if she didn't appear in that part?

On John/Zatanna:
Well, based on the flash forward in Batman: Hush, at least 2 months for that relationship to blossom. That's at the absolute lowest, and that's not including their past of romance. I don't think it's too much of a problem, its Waller that's the problem.

The movie definitely sets up a possible new continuity. I'm not going to speculate too much, but that would definitely be included because Barry would presumably remember it and it would be within this canon.
 
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iammattie

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Did they say for sure that Waller died during the gap? No way it could be during Batman: Hush's jump if she didn't appear in that part?
"She died. Cancer. ... A week after that, my puddin' died thanks to new Batman." - Harley Quinn. Technically she could have died up to a week before the gap, so long as new Batman's very first move would have been killing Joker, but it's such an incredibly short amount of time that I don't think it would make much of a difference.
 

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"She died. Cancer. ... A week after that, my puddin' died thanks to new Batman." - Harley Quinn. Technically she could have died up to a week before the gap, so long as new Batman's very first move would have been killing Joker, but it's such an incredibly short amount of time that I don't think it would make much of a difference.
Ah, so it's still a year and a couple months. Well, I guess she was incredibly lucky. If it "could" happen even if unlikely, I'm going to assume it did in this case. We've shortened it at least.
 

iammattie

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Jay Oliva suggests that the ending of Flashpoint actually takes place in the new timeline via Twitter

Yes because just like the comics, the flashpoint events created the new 52 timeline. The tip off is the outfits both flash and Batman are wearing at the end of the movie. It has all of the New 52 piping and details as opposed to their pre flashpoint outfits in the museum scene.
No clue where that would fit into things due to the costumes though. I guess Batman's is close enough to his Pre-Hush suit, but I don't think there's a match for Barry.
 

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Jay Oliva suggests that the ending of Flashpoint actually takes place in the new timeline via Twitter



No clue where that would fit into things due to the costumes though. I guess Batman's is close enough to his Pre-Hush suit, but I don't think there's a match for Barry.
I'd say it would fit in neatly between Titans films.
 

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Yep, that's why I don't rely on the creators to answer these types of questions. I think they deliberately leave it up to the fans when it comes to continuity, canon and all things related to those subjects. Clearly the DCAU has nothing to do with Flashpoint!
Still, though, I like the idea that they're the same timeline. It feels less confusing. I do think that having them separate removes the issue of costumes. I'm keeping it where it is.

The DC Animated Universe is just incompatible. I guess Barry could exist, and Hal Jordan was confirmed to exist, but even if it were compatible, it just doesn't connect.
 

Dallas Kinard

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Still, though, I like the idea that they're the same timeline.

The DC Animated Universe is just incompatible. I guess Barry could exist, and Hal Jordan was confirmed to exist, but even if it were compatible, it just doesn't connect.
I always assumed that the scene in the cave was just the original timeline, but a few years later since the costumes were different. And then the New 52 timeline branched off of that. Isn't that how Avengers: Endgame explains parallel timelines?
 

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I always assumed that the scene in the cave was just the original timeline, but a few years later since the costumes were different. And then the New 52 timeline branched off of that. Isn't that how Avengers: Endgame explains parallel timelines?
In Endgame, either you believe that it requires the removal of an Infinity Stone to create a new timeline or simply going back in time. In Endgame, they don't have to stop themselves from changing time to return to their original timeline, they just go.

Let's hypothesise.

Timeline 1: Barry creates Flashpoint, erasing Timeline 1?

Flashpoint: Barry creates Timeline 1 again years in the future and Timeline 2

I still get hung up on how Flashpoint could create 2 timelines. Assuming going back in time doesn't erase the previous timeline, why did he have to let his mother die to return to it?

Barry does remember the Flashpoint in AW, so at least everything up until the final scene is a part of that particular Barry's timeline.

So now, is there one or two of Barry Allen?

Edit: just in case, I've asked if they meant that the movie is in the DC Animated Universe only in spirit.
 
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