Gotham (Discussion/spoilers)

[the watcher]

Well it wasn't bad. It didn't live up to my expectations. But still wasn't bad. When the killer had the gun pointed at Bruce. I half expected him to say, "Ever dance with devil in the pale moonlight, kid?" But nothing...

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Gotham TV Series news

I actually really liked the Pilot.

First off, the production team and set builders nailed the look of Gotham City perfectly, far better than Nolan did in his film trilogy. Dark, gothic, and gritty, it's living up to the show's namesake in that regard.

The characters were all quite well done. Gordon and Bullock are true to their comic counterparts, though Gordon being the straight shooter and honest cop also comes off as the most one-dimensional as a result. Bullock has a lot of potential, and looking forward to seeing how he's portrayed as the show continues. The kid playing Bruce did a great job. And I liked how they approached Alfred in the show. Much like the Earth One graphic novel, Alfred is portrayed as a hard-ass. This is a logical interpretation, in terms of instilling in Bruce those same tough-as-nails, hard outlook that'll be so necessary to him later on. At the same time Bruce definitely pushes back, and that battle of wills between young Bruce and Alfred should make for some interesting scenes and arcs as the show plays out.

The villains are a tad over the top, but that's to be expected from a Batman show (even if this doesn't necessarily qualify since there is no Batman, and won't be for a long while yet). Fish Mooney is a capable and cold-blooded crime boss. I was impressed with how well Jada Pinkett-Smith pulled the role off. I also liked Robin Lord Taylor's portrayal as Oswald Cobblepot, a sadistic and ambitious, but unimposing member of Mooney's outfit, whose ambition overshadows his cunning and leads to setting him up as an outcast of the organization. Carmine Falcone is also introduced in a scene and it works. That one scene helps establish a more layered and interesting Falcone than the comics ever did for the character (at least what I've read with him in it).

The plot overall worked well. Granted, there was some failings in terms of exposition, but I can forgive that since overall the episode worked well.

The episode was quite good, and is laying the groundwork for a series with a lot of potential. I had very little interest in the show from the trailers I'd seen, but I can honestly say after giving the Pilot a try, I'll be back for more, so it certainly did its job in that regard.

I'd give it a 4/5. Not perfect, but it has a lot going for it, and any faults to be found are easily forgiven compared to its successes.

 

[wyokid]

Re: Gotham TV Series news

I haven't watched it yet but it has an average rating of 7.5/10 out of 57 reviews (95% approval rating) on RT. I'll probably watch it tonight before Agents of SHIELD.

 

[DIrishB]

I haven't watched it yet but it has an average rating of 7.5/10 out of 57 reviews (95% approval rating) on RT. I'll probably watch it tonight before Agents of SHIELD.

Like I said, I liked it, so you'll probably completely hate it.

 

[E]

Re: Gotham TV Series news

Just read a review that said it was a little silly but fun. I dunno...I don't tend to think of Batman as "fun"..."fun" better describes Spider-Man or something like that.

 

[Ice]

It was very Year One-ish. A lot of what was done in Year One was done in the show.

The pilot was interesting. It wasn't bad; some parts could've handled the pacing a little better. I'll keep watching.

 

[DIrishB]

Just read a review that said it was a little silly but fun. I dunno...I don't tend to think of Batman as "fun"..."fun" better describes Spider-Man or something like that.

That's a horrible review, then. "Fun" isn't the word I would use for it. "Competent", "interesting", "promising" are all much better adjectives for it.

I'd recommend it. The Pilot alone was decent, as I said, and it has me interested to see where the show will go with the characters and story, so it fit the purpose of a Pilot episode perfectly.

It was very Year One-ish. A lot of what was done in Year One was done in the show.

Exactly.

The pilot was interesting. It wasn't bad; some parts could've handled the pacing a little better. I'll keep watching.

I didn't really have much problem with pacing. If anything they tried to cram too much into the Pilot, so perhaps in the regard of being over-stuffed.

Like I said, I think the biggest problem was exposition through dialogue regarding some things, like the argument Bullock had with Essen (which Gordon watches from outside the office and the audience isn't really privy to what's being said), then Bullock comes out and explains he's stuck with Gordon as a partner because Gordon was a war hero and his father was a former DA. I mean, I guess it helped establish the forced interaction between Gordon and Bullock, but it could just as easily, and probably been more tactfully handled, by letting the audience hear the dialogue clearly and have Bullock bring that up later on in the Pilot or in a following episode.

 

[wyokid]

REALLY don't like that Bruce didn't like what I'm assuming to be Zorro. That's supposed to be the one of guiding forces of Batman and to mock it like that really puts a bad taste in my mouth, Catwoman being at the unnecessarily bloody death of the Wayne's is WAY too convenient. Gotham feels way too much like New York rather than Gotham, the lighting really hurts my eyes due to them using way too many filters, Cory Michael Smith seems to be channeling the late great Frank Gorshin (which is just fantastic), Robin Lord Taylor...I really need to see more to get a good reading but he is creepy and kind of flamboyant, the henchmen are awesome, could have REALLY gone without Montoya being ex-lovers with Gordon's fiancee (incredibly trite and is just a really dumb way for James to have beef), Jada Pinkett-Smith was easily the worst part of this and I hope she dies soon so Cobblepot can take over, and James was easily the highlight of the show (with mostly everyone else coming out as caricatures but it is the first episode so they should hopefully get as much development as Gordon). I dug the heck out of this and was surprised at how fun it was. Shaky start, but it has a lot of potential. 7/10

 

[DIrishB]

REALLY don't like that Bruce didn't like what I'm assuming to be Zorro. That's supposed to be the one of guiding forces of Batman and to mock it like that really puts a bad taste in my mouth,

I don't think it was Zorro, I'll have to watch it again but I thought they mentioned singing and dancing. Maybe a musical?

Catwoman being at the unnecessarily bloody death of the Wayne's is WAY too convenient.

Unnecessarily bloody? Um, let's not make it seem like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They got shot. People tend to bleed when that happens. The scene didn't offer an excessive or gratuitous amount of blood for gunshots to the chest. If anything they scaled it back compared to reality due to it airing on network television at prime time.

And Selina being there is convenient. Yeah, I agree with that. But you're just nitpicking. I mean, when you really think about it, the entire set up of the mythos involving the Waynes being murdered in a seedy alley is WAY too convenient. They're rich as heck, why are they going to shows or movies in a bad part of town (the alley they're killed in is called Crime Alley for chrissakes!)?

Sometimes you have to suspend disbelief for these things, but you refuse to do that in regards to certain things, while fully accepting others. It's odd.

Gotham feels way too much like New York rather than Gotham, the lighting really hurts my eyes due to them using way too many filters,

That...looked really nothing like New York. Maybe New York of the 1970's if it had been combined with modern day Detroit and a bunch of gothic statuary from medieval Germany. And I don't know what nonsense you're talking about in terms of filters or hurting your eyes. This is exactly the reason I pick at your posts.

The set design/production team did a perfect job. The sets truly evoke Gotham better than any live action Batman production ever has. And you're complaining about light filters? Are you serious?

Cory Michael Smith seems to be channeling the late great Frank Gorshin (which is just fantastic), Robin Lord Taylor...I really need to see more to get a good reading but he is creepy and kind of flamboyant, the henchmen are awesome, could have REALLY gone without Montoya being ex-lovers with Gordon's fiancee (incredibly trite and is just a really dumb way for James to have beef), Jada Pinkett-Smith was easily the worst part of this and I hope she dies soon so Cobblepot can take over,

Smith was actually pretty good. She did a good job of playing the ruthless gangster.

I do agree with the Montoya/Barbara thing. It came off as forced. At the very least if they're going to include that it would've been better served with a slow reveal throughout the first several episodes. Though it did tie directly into the plot and setting up the confrontation with Gordon and Montoya (and by extension Allen).

and James was easily the highlight of the show (with mostly everyone else coming out as caricatures but it is the first episode so they should hopefully get as much development as Gordon).

While I liked Gordon, he was set up as the least interesting of the main characters, and easily the best example of a caricature--the uncompromising, incorruptible do-gooder. Bullock seems like he'll be far more interesting, especially in terms of the effect Gordon will have on him in terms of a redemption arc.

But as you said, it's only the first episode so I'm sure all the characters will be explored and expanded upon.

I dug the heck out of this and was surprised at how fun it was. Shaky start, but it has a lot of potential. 7/10

 

[wyokid]

I don't think it was Zorro, I'll have to watch it again but I thought they mentioned singing and dancing. Maybe a musical?

I could have sworn Martha called it a movie. I could be wrong though. It had no effect on my score.

Unnecessarily bloody? Um, let's not make it seem like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They got shot. People tend to bleed when that happens. The scene didn't offer an excessive or gratuitous amount of blood for gunshots to the chest. If anything they scaled it back compared to reality due to it airing on network television at prime time.

It was the bloodiest version to date. I'm a subtlety guy, show less to tell more. It had no effect on my score.

And Selina being there is convenient. Yeah, I agree with that. But you're just nitpicking. I mean, when you really think about it, the entire set up of the mythos involving the Waynes being murdered in a seedy alley is WAY too convenient. They're rich as heck, why are they going to shows or movies in a bad part of town (the alley they're killed in is called Crime Alley for chrissakes!)?
Sometimes you have to suspend disbelief for these things, but you refuse to do that in regards to certain things, while fully accepting others. It's odd.

I have no problem suspending my disbelief, but convenience is lazy storytelling and makes the world feel smaller. The Amazing Spider-Man and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 suffer from this hard.

That...looked really nothing like New York. Maybe New York of the 1970's if it had been combined with modern day Detroit and a bunch of gothic statuary from medieval Germany. And I don't know what nonsense you're talking about in terms of filters or hurting your eyes. This is exactly the reason I pick at your posts.

The set design/production team did a perfect job. The sets truly evoke Gotham better than any live action Batman production ever has. And you're complaining about light filters? Are you serious?

It felt like New York (read: generic big city). Gotham should feel like it belong in the past but with modern tech, not New York. Gothic, rundown, and old, but oddly modern. The best live-action adaptation that nailed Gotham would be the Tim Burton films with the best overall being Batman: The Animated Series. The sets were great and well made, they just didn't feel like Gotham to me and in a show called Gotham I feel as though that is important.

And yes, computer generated filters bother my eyes as opposed to natural lighting. It had no effect on my score.

Smith was actually pretty good. She did a good job of playing the ruthless gangster.

I couldn't buy her character and the fact that it was stunt-casting doesn't help. I haven't seen her in much, but if this is truly how good of an actor she is then I haven't missed anything at all.

While I liked Gordon, he was set up as the least interesting of the main characters, and easily the best example of a caricature--the uncompromising, incorruptible do-gooder. Bullock seems like he'll be far more interesting, especially in terms of the effect Gordon will have on him in terms of a redemption arc.

But as you said, it's only the first episode so I'm sure all the characters will be explored and expanded upon.

Gordon felt like Gordon through and through and in a world without Batman that's needed. He never felt one-note, he never compromised, he was fleshed out, and he's, hopefully, going to have a 'stache by the end of the season because **** DC's obsession with origin stories.

 

[DIrishB]

I'm sure he'll sport a mustache eventually. It'd be cool if Season 2 jumped ahead 2-3 years, to show the effect Gordon's presence has on the department and city at large, especially since I'm sure they'll end the season with some major shake-up in terms of the underworld element (likely Mooney being killed).

 

[wyokid]

I'm sure he'll sport a mustache eventually. It'd be cool if Season 2 jumped ahead 2-3 years, to show the effect Gordon's presence has on the department and city at large, especially since I'm sure they'll end the season with some major shake-up in terms of the underworld element (likely Mooney being killed).

I was thinking they might do that. They could even have it go up-to-date eventually and have it be an actual Gotham Central show.

 

[DIrishB]

I was thinking they might do that. They could even have it go up-to-date eventually and have it be an actual Gotham Central show.

I doubt that'll happen, since they won't be able to use Batman.

It really depends on how long the show lasts and how good ratings are for it throughout its run. If it lasts, say, 3-4 seasons, have a 2-3 year gap between each season. That'll allow Bruce's character to age enough to get to the point where he leaves Gotham on his trek around the world and his training. The finale should hopefully have him return to Gotham, maybe with an epilogue scene of the bat crashing through the window of his father's study (a la Year One) to inspire him to take up the costume.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

I liked it. It was enjoyable, better than other drivel to watch at the time.

Prediction! Fish Mooney is killed by the penguin, cause, wait for it, PENGUINS EAT FISH!

I'm so smart.

 

[DIrishB]

I liked it. It was enjoyable, better than other drivel to watch at the time. Prediction! Fish Mooney is killed by the penguin, cause, wait for it, PENGUINS EAT FISH! I'm so smart.

 

[wyokid]

bat crashing through the window of his father's study (a la Year One) to inspire him to take up the costume.

I think you mean a la Detective Comics #27 I want to see that in live action so badly. That and Robin.

 

[DIrishB]

I think you mean a la Detective Comics #27 I want to see that in live action so badly. That and Robin.

Batman's origins or inspirations weren't touched on at all in Detective Comics #27. I do know that Batman punched the villain into a vat of acid, so if you're a big proponent of Batman's "no killing" policy, I wouldn't lean on his first appearance as being "definitive".

So, no, I meant Year One.

 

[wyokid]

Batman's origins or inspirations weren't touched on at all in Detective Comics #27. I do know that Batman punched the villain into a vat of acid, so if you're a big proponent of Batman's "no killing" policy, I wouldn't lean on his first appearance as being "definitive".

So, no, I meant Year One.

I meant #33. I don't know why I thought it was in the first appearance.

 

[DIrishB]

I meant #33. I don't know why I thought it was in the first appearance.

Year One did it better.

 

[Friday]

So I watched it today and there were two things that I didn't like.

I didn't like The Penguin killing the man for his sandwich. It seemed a little too early in what I assume is going to be a main character for him to go full murderous sociopath on us.

I also didn't like Alfred. He felt too hard ass to me.

Otherwise it was good.