Hell, Satan and the Devil - DC Live-Action Multiverse

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
4,381
This thread is used to try and explain and hopefully reconcile inconsistencies in the DC Live-Action Multiverse canon.

Hell and Heaven are confirmed multiversal due to Lucifer giving John a card that takes him to Oliver Queen (who lived and died on Earth-1) in Purgatory. The Spectre, who is a human chosen to be God's vengeance, appears, and it is a different Jim Corrigan than the one from Earth-1 (noted by John Constantine) thus showing that God and Lucifer are beyond the multiverse. Additionally, we've been shown that the New Gods, such as Darkseid, are multiversal. In Smallville Season 11, Darkseid is shown to be a single entity in the entire multiverse. In Zack Snyder's Justice League, it is implied that Darkseid travels throughout the multiverse. It doesn't make sense for New Gods to be on a higher tier than the literal creator of the universe. As for the rest, they've confirmed everything we've seen and everything we will see are all part of a unified multiverse. This creates a few inconsistencies to be explained. Here are some theories to explain how everything could fit together.

To start with, John Constantine of Earth-1/Prime helped split Mazikeen into two halves, one for Hell (The Sandman) and one for the Earthly plane (Lucifer). Lucifer owed him for that in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

To explain the different versions of the Devil existing, there are two possibilities.

The Triumvirate Theory
This theory is more comic-accurate. It began when God created the being who would become known as the First of the Fallen. The First, after being banished to Hell, came across two demons who he believed to be fallen angels. They formed a Triumvirate to rule Hell, and were given the ruling titles of Satan (The First), Belial and Beelzebub respectively.

Eventually God created Samael, who later rebelled against him and was banished from Heaven and made to rule Hell. Samael forcefully took the throne of Hell from Satan and the Triumvirate and changed his name to Lucifer Morningstar. As the new leader of Hell, he ruled all aspects of it, and took on the titles of Satan, Belial and Beelzebub.

He also created avatars of himself in order to serve different functions in Hell. He created a more 'human' and rebellious version of himself (Tom Ellis), who rules the lowly demons in the Labyrinth, the Seventh Province. He also created another being that is more malicious and calculated (Gwendoline Christie), who rules the high-ranking demons in Pandemonia, the First Province.

Satan was given the name Lucifer Rofocale and was made into Hell's prime minister (Satan's last name in the Constantine novelization is most likely a reference to Lucifuge Rofocale, the prime minister of Hell as assigned by Lucifer). Satan went down to Earth-[Constantine Movie] to collect John's soul, the only soul he would collect himself.

When Lucifer decided to retire to Earth-666 in 2011, the Triumvirate of Hell returned to power. The titles of Beelzebub and Belial were restored to the original demons, who confronted John Constantine (Earth-1) alongside Satan in 2019. John appeared on Earth-666 later that year to fulfill on his earlier deal, and was given a card that allowed him and his allies to go to Purgatory, the Ninth Province of Hell.

In 2020, Lucifer returned to Hell and decided to try using therapy to help souls in Hell eventually go to Heaven. One year later, Morpheus came to Hell in order to get his helm back, and came across Lucifer's more malevolent self.

The Coin Theory
Lucifer's Pentecostal Coin shows that, like how the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are different persons that are all the same God, Beelzebub, the Serpent, the Dragon, Lucifer and Satan are different persons that are all the same Devil.
s-l1600.jpg

When Samael fell to the abyss that became Hell, he divided his power into multiple beings to serve different functions. One being more 'human' and rebellious (Tom Ellis), another being more malicious and calculated (Gwendoline Christie) and other entities that served to govern Hell's demon population. This includes Beelzebub, Belial and Satan.

Satan ("The First of the Fallen") would be another aspect of Samael in this case, unlike the comics where he was his own entity apart from Lucifer entirely.
the-avatars-of-lucifer-morningstar-not-exactly-bound-to-a-v0-tp0t6icj69j91.jpg

The Tom Ellis Lucifer seems to be less powerful. It almost seems like his power is perportional to whoever he is fighting at any given moment. This is possibly a subconscious decision so that he can experience a more human existence, since he is bound to Angelic self-actualization. At his true power, he is second only to God according to Morpheus.

His comic book counterpart was able to travel between multiverse iterations after the events of Flashpoint. This is likely why Lucifer was so calm when the Anti-Monitor was destroying the multiverse. He quite literally can exist in a void of nothing, and Heaven and Hell are beyond the Anti-Monitor's reach.

Hell looks different between different movies and TV series. This is because Hell is fluid and ever changing, as well as having nine different provinces.

Hells Provinces (1).png
Pandemonia: First Province, Dominion High Caste
The Odium: Second Province, industrial/manufacturing
The Gull: Third Province, mercantile/commerce
Praetori: Fourth Province, administrative/governance
Internecia: Fifth Province, military/enforcement
Ament: Sixth Province, cultural/propaganda
Labyrinth: Seventh Province, judicial/detainment
Err: Eight Province, theological/suppression
Purgatory: Ninth Province, secondary damnation
HellSandman1.png

Gabriel, after betraying God, had her wings removed and was trapped as a mortal in the Constantine movie universe. She likely redeemed herself of her sins and grew her wings back as self-actualization.
 
Last edited:
Ok, and Darkseid and the New Gods are suposed to work the same way? Are Smallville Darkseid and Zack Snyder Darkseid suposed to be the same being?
 
Yes. Smallville Season 11 states that there is only one Darkseid. In Zack Snyder's Justice League, it is implied that Darkseid travels the multiverse.
It could be very interesting if they do something with that but I am afraid it is only a matter of time the writters create an inconsistency with that.
 
Last edited:
Considering we basically never see the real Darkseid, I don't think that will be an issue.
 
So in the comics is the same way around? The real Darkseid is never revealed?
 
OK, after reading the wiki I think I understand. There is like a Original Darkseid that is like an idea that takes form and the diferent Darkseids are like drones or something? I think the fact that the real one never appears mades pointless the fact that there is a real one, it seems to be as if it was a bigger scope version of every time someone defeats Doctor Doom and turns out to be a Doombot. "Bwahahahahaha, you defeated Darkseid, but he is the encarnation of evil and evil never dies, so there is still a Darkseid Prime or whatever in the multiverse that would make more Darkseid-Avatars and terrorize other worlds Bwahahahahaha"
 
OK, after reading the wiki I think I understand. There is like a Original Darkseid that is like an idea that takes form and the diferent Darkseids are like drones or something? I think the fact that the real one never appears mades pointless the fact that there is a real one, it seems to be as if it was a bigger scope version of every time someone defeats Doctor Doom and turns out to be a Doombot. "Bwahahahahaha, you defeated Darkseid, but he is the encarnation of evil and evil never dies, so there is still a Darkseid Prime or whatever in the multiverse that would make more Darkseid-Avatars and terrorize other worlds Bwahahahahaha"
And he canonically in the comics survived the original crisis on infinite earths, so still remains Canon that he can fight toe-to-toe with pre-crisis supes.
 
Don't forget Lucifer's angelic lore of 'self-actualization' as how they choose to manifest themselves in the physical world.

Here's an updated version of Hell also:
Hells Provinces.png
 
I was actually watching The Sandman and was considering that that might be more likely the first province.
 
I was actually watching The Sandman and was considering that that might be more likely the first province.
And I'm more inclined to believe that 1.) The live-action version of The First of the Fallen (Beau Daniels/Peter Stormare) is actually split off from Samael/Lucifer himself; potentially as all the evil removed from him into it's own 'devil'. He literally has a coin that has "Satan" and "Beelzebub" as if they're extensions of himself.
2.) "Rofocale" and "Morningstar" are titles. Lucifer left Hell in 2011, thus handing the official title of "Morningstar" to the other aspect of Lucifer (Gwendoline Christie/Beau Daniels/Peter Stormare); who was previously under the title of "Rofocale". Tom's Lucifer still adopted "Morningstar" as a name on the mortal plane probably because it sounds fancy for nightclub owner.
3.) One rules over the souls and lowly demons (Tom Ellis), the other commands the high tier demons and currently holds the power of Hell (Gwendoline Christie).
I think this theory of mine fits with Tom Ellis' Lucifer and the complete opposite contrast to Gwendoline's, while not making the hierarchy of Hell too complicated. Tom's is very much unwilling to accept responsibility and would, by choice or not, manifest another aspect that embodies full evil is to blame for the sin of mankind.
 
What are our thoughts on "God" during The Sandman then? Amenadiel isn't the creator but he is God. Although, the Presence is still in the multiverse. He's just isolated in the Void (Goddess' universe).
s-l1600.jpg
This coin? Possibly. Using the "God" side, we can work out the meaning. Since the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three different persons yet are all the same "God", then that means:

IN GOD WE TRUST
One God and One Only
Exists in three Persons
Equal and Eternal
Distinct yet acting in unity
Constituting the one true God of the Holy Bible

IN GOD WE DAMNED
One Devil and One Only
Exists in Five Persons
Equal and Eternal
Distinct yet acting in unity
Constituting the one true Devil of the Unholy Bible

Samuel's five selves?
Beelzebub (Bill Croft) Beelzebub
Satan (Peter Stormare/Beau Daniels) Lucifer Rofocale
Serpent (Gwendoline Christie) Lucifer Morningstar
Dragon (Mel Tuck) Belial
Lucifer (Tom Ellis) Lucifer Morningstar

I think there's a level of interchangeability to who is the "Lucifer" side of Samuel.

So, Lucifer is literally the opposite side of God in that case, with even more personas. It's much different than the comics but I suppose it makes everything less complicated.

I imagine that, whatever it really is, "Lucifer Rofocale"is the "Prime Minister" of Hell while Morningstar is the "ruler".
 
Last edited:
Random sidetone: The Doom Patrol were knocked out by the air of Hades as soon as they reached the River Styx's shore in "Dead Patrol".

Constantine also in his NBC show used contained air from that dimension to knock out "Manny" in its penultimate episode. Interesting and extremely niche consistency...
 
Last edited:
I know I'm digging this old thread back up, but I figure that leaving Hell is what made Samael "separate" or split off into other personalities - Morningstar (prime personality), Rofocale (his darkest and worst impulses embedded in the heart of Hell), Rofocale corrupted Lilith and made her a succubus and mother of demons. So on and so forth.

There's always a part of him that will remain there representing his duty (Rofocale) and Hell itself has and will try to draw him back into the unholy ether. But after 6 seasons, having earned his hope for humanity and a sense of pride, he returns to Hell as God dictates "Hell no longer needs a warden."

Beyond that, the specifics are left vague in Lucifer's finale besides some notion about redeeming the damn souls. Except that's Luci's endgame.
Before he can do that, he has to rejoin with his darker half and "play the long con game" with the ever-impatient Demon Lords; including Mazikeen's other half.



To my reading, there are vague implications of this Lucifer not "being up to task" after Dream humiliated them. Their facial expressions definitely read as 'conflicting', like lack of confidence or two different aspects of the same person fighting for their own ambitions. Adding to that, Azrael essentially makes a very subtle threat to them about their reluctance in the same scene that I interpreted as "If you won't do what we insist upon, well, we don't need you, do we?"

Whether or not that moment has said nuance, well, this ending is unique solely to the show and not the comics. I expect no vacation time after this in the Netflix Sandman adaption. These guys are a serious threat and need to be taken care of for good; before any soul can be redeemed out of Hell.

@Pro Bot
 
Last edited:
I know I'm digging this old thread back up, but I figure that leaving Hell is what made Samael "separate" or split off into other personalities - Morningstar (prime personality), Rofocale (his darkest and worst impulses embedded in the heart of Hell), Rofocale corrupted Lilith and made her a succubus and mother of demons. So on and so forth.

There's always a part of him that will remain there representing his duty (Rofocale) and Hell itself has and will try to draw him back into the unholy ether. But after 6 seasons, having earned his hope for humanity and a sense of pride, he returns to Hell as God dictates "Hell no longer needs a warden."

Beyond that, the specifics are left vague in Lucifer's finale besides some notion about redeeming the damn souls. Except that's Luci's endgame.
Before he can do that, he has to rejoin with his darker half and "play the long con game" with the ever-impatient Demon Lords; including Mazikeen's other half.



To my reading, there are vague implications of this Lucifer not "being up to task" after Dream humiliated them. Their facial expressions definitely read as 'conflicting', like lack of confidence or two different aspects of the same person fighting for their own ambitions. Adding to that, Azrael essentially makes a very subtle threat to them about their reluctance in the same scene that I interpreted as "If you won't do what we insist upon, well, we don't need you, do we?"

Whether or not that moment has said nuance, well, this ending is unique solely to the show and not the comics. I expect no vacation time after this in the Netflix Sandman adaption. These guys are a serious threat and need to be taken care of for good; before any soul can be redeemed out of Hell.

@Pro Bot

I assume Neron possessing Amenadiel, who was guarding the gates of Hell between 2011 and 2016, thus becoming "Manny" was the start of that Rising Darkness.
1705314646031.png
After manipulating the Brujeria and Zed's father's cult, unsuccessfully, and Zed dying as a result of Hell opening up in her brain (my guess considering how the Hellblazer comics turned out with Zed...) that resulted in Neron being removed from Amenadiel thanks to John Constantine's intervention. John somehow ended up in Hell during that event trying to stop the Hell portal explosion within Zed. He stops the demons from breaching through but as a result of Zed's death, John's team never forgives him for his failure once again to keep a loved one alive and they go their separate ways. That's the story gap between his show and his Arrow s4 episode + Legends of Tomorrow IMO.

1705315139736.png
 
Last edited:
Yeah, that makes sense. There's also a line in Legends where John says that the darkness is rising. Neron's plan was pretty much the same as the Rising Darkness so naturally it's an easy connection to make.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top