I Finally Did It (horrific news, Ultimate U fans)

[TheManWithoutFear]

i liked jurassic park 3, certainly better than 2 which was the worst. if your use of the jurassic park films to the ultimates vols 1-3, it should should indicate that the first was really good for its time, 2 was trying to be like the first one and emulate it's success, and the 3rd was just a bit diff but alot darker and violent.

all in all if 3 is as good as 1 and 2 then i think most of us will be happy

(im sure i had a point there are maybe the initial post was a bit pointless )

I should slap you for that. 3 was better than 2? 3 sucked. Visually it was amazing but the plot was horrible. The Lost World was ok, nowhere near one but the 2nd book was better than the first book in my opinion.

 

[Jackie Estacado]

steady on treacle, it's only a post

lost world was wank. the book was better i agree but the overall story was set around dinosaur attack set pieces (in much the same way M:I-2 was set around stunts).

but anyway, this is an Ultimates thread so 'stay on topic' :wink:

 

[Seldes Katne]

I'm still reading all of the Ultimate titles, but I've stopped buying Ultimates2 in singles. I'm fed up with the delays. Better one deadline for the trade than a dozen missed ones for the singles.

 

[Bass]

I dropped USM. I usually buy my issues in 'bulk' (i.e. a whole arc at a time, but in single issues) so, this time, when I turned up at the store and saw the 'Silver Sable' arc and the first part of 'Deadpool' there I just said "no. i'm dropping these".
I'll probably be back for 'Clone Saga'. Maybe even for Morbius. But no sooner.

I also dropped UXM before reading Kirkman's first issue. Sorry, Robert, but I just can't afford it.

I doubt I'll get Ultimates 3 (except for Huston's annual) because this series is developing into the 'Jurassic Park 3' of sequels! :lol:

And UFF will probably go buh-bye with the end of Millar and Land's run. Wow. It's so sad. So very, very sad.

On the plus side, I ordered 'The Flash: Fastest Man Alive'; '52'; 'Batman' and I'm planning on adding 'Blue Beetle'; 'Justice League of America'; 'Superman'; 'Action Comics' and 'Detective Comics' to that list.
I'll miss you Ultimate Universe. I really will.

To be honest, I'm with you on this.

I'm probably going to drop most of the Ultimate line soon. I won't be picking up "Frightful" in UF4, I don't know if Ben Oliver's art is good enough to pick up UXM, so that's a 'maybe', The Ultimates I'm going to finish though. Same for Extinction and Hulk vs Wolverine, which I'm both enjoying. Once they're done - I don't see what Ultimate titles I'll be reading. Ultimates 3 maybe, if Mad's art is as good as I remember it being, and maybe UF4 if the new creative team is any good. We'll see.

 

[Nas-T!]

To be honest, I'm with you on this.

I'm probably going to drop most of the Ultimate line soon. I won't be picking up "Frightful" in UF4, I don't know if Ben Oliver's art is good enough to pick up UXM, so that's a 'maybe', The Ultimates I'm going to finish though. Same for Extinction and Hulk vs Wolverine, which I'm both enjoying. Once they're done - I don't see what Ultimate titles I'll be reading. Ultimates 3 maybe, if Mad's art is as good as I remember it being, and maybe UF4 if the new creative team is any good. We'll see.

I'm still gonna finish The Ultimates 2 (it's just too awesome to pass up!) and Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine AND Extinction...but after that I'm unclear. I'm also finishing up UFF with "Frightful", just to get a "good" ending to the UFF, which is the only Ultimate ongoing title I have from #1.
I decided that the best time to drop something you wanna stop reading is BEFORE it gets good. So I'll avoid UF4 simply because I think I'm going to enjoy Carey & Ferry's first arc (at the very least) and don't want to be drawn in when I want out.
Same goes for U3...though I might just pick it up. I mean, it IS Loeb. I'm just worried about them new costumes and stuff. I keep seeing horrible visions of Mad's Scarlet Witch redesign and I want to cry...wah!:cry:

Anyway, USM sorta has me on-and-off. I don't buy any other 616 Spider-Man titles anymore (sob-stupidJMSruinedmyfavoritecharacterinliteratureever-sob) so USM will be the book I pick up every other arc (when it sounds worth my while) to check it out.
That means that I might pick up "Morbius" and, unless something HUGE changes, I'll definitely be there for "Clone Saga"...but after that, who knows? Bendis just really, really, REALLY bores me nowadays. With Millar soon to join him on the "bore list"...unless Millarworld 2 is as good as Millarworld 1...then i'm still a Millar fan.

 

[Bass]

I decided that the best time to drop something you wanna stop reading is BEFORE it gets good.

I drop a title when I realise that once I read an issue, I get pissed off and chuck it onto my shelf of rubbish. If I don't like an issue, I flick through it and see if I can really be bothered to pay for it. Very quickly, I stop picking up the title to even have a flick through.

So, basically, UXM and UF4 are completely on a "look at the issue in the store, properly, before paying for it" as opposed to "if it's in my box, pick it up and read it at home" policy of purchasing.

Same goes for U3...though I might just pick it up. I mean, it IS Loeb. I'm just worried about them new costumes and stuff. I keep seeing horrible visions of Mad's Scarlet Witch redesign and I want to cry...wah!:cry:

Odd. I'm crying over what Loeb will do to the title, but really excited to see Joe Mad's art - especially Captain America and Hulk.

That means that I might pick up "Morbius" and, unless something HUGE changes, I'll definitely be there for "Clone Saga"...but after that, who knows? Bendis just really, really, REALLY bores me nowadays. With Millar soon to join him on the "bore list"...unless Millarworld 2 is as good as Millarworld 1...then i'm still a Millar fan.

I've given up on Bendis, and frankly, Millar as well. I thought his first Millarworld was atrocious... but see, Millar, Bendis, and JMS have all done works I'm immensely fond of. But they also seem to have completely lost whatever it is that made them so good in the first place. Millar's best works were his Superman stories, Authority, and The Ultimates. But everything else is mediocre to terrible because Millar's fascination with celebrity and politics ends up making his works as shallow as those societal institutions - which is a terrible irony. Bendis had some real good stories on USM for the first 20 or so issues, and Daredevil was brilliant up until around #60. Jinx was good, and so was Alias for a while. But Bendis' inability to write endings means that while his runs start well, he's incapable of finishing them effectively, and after a certain point, he tanks what he's writing. JMS has done Babylon 5 (a HUGE feat) as well as Crusade, his initial stuff on ASM was great, and so is Supreme Power - but JMS' desire for honesty as well as his stubborness seems to have him not only repeating ideas he's had before, but to also explain them to a point of banality, or worse, to take an idea he has and unrelentingly pursue it to the point of madness. Shame, as these guys can write much better than what they're doing now.

 

[Nas-T!]

I drop a title when I realise that once I read an issue, I get pissed off and chuck it onto my shelf of rubbish. If I don't like an issue, I flick through it and see if I can really be bothered to pay for it. Very quickly, I stop picking up the title to even have a flick through.

Huh?:lol:
No, I get you. Just kidding. I have read issues of comics that made me pissed off, and have decided that, I don't know the whole story yet, so I pick up the rest of an arc (unless it's REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY bad, then I don't). I did it with "Sins Past". I was ticked off with it by #512 (especially, but was ready to let go by then), but decided that it wasn't fair of me to comment on it until I knew the whole story.
Once I had the whole story and was sure it was all BS...buh-bye went ASM. I am attending a local comic-con here in SA in a week's time. I plan to carry a box-load of JMS ASM issues and try to swap them. Seeing as how his issues are in demand (especially the first ones) I should be able to swap them for some good stuff...hopefully some recent DC stuff or perhaps something else that's good.
Any recommendations?

So, basically, UXM and UF4 are completely on a "look at the issue in the store, properly, before paying for it" as opposed to "if it's in my box, pick it up and read it at home" policy of purchasing.

I've never tried that before. Mainly because I think it would take too much time. Anyway, I'll just avoid picking up any more UXM (Vaughan's last arc was really a great place to end seeing as how it all went down) and stuff.

Odd. I'm crying over what Loeb will do to the title, but really excited to see Joe Mad's art - especially Captain America and Hulk.

Well, you see, I'm also pissed about the angle Loeb is pursuing (i.e. the superhero-y angle), but I like Loeb's work (in theory anyway; I've never read Superman/Batman or much of his recent stuff) and it's not so much HOW Mad redesigned Wanda's costume, as much as it is that he had to at all! Which, I suppose, is more Loeb's fault than Mad's.
I liked my Ultimates as a government-sanctioned team of a-holes who wore what were essentially jump-suits! It's like that bit of a person's mind that just knows that "Constantine" would've been better if they got a blond-haired Brit to wear a saggy brown trenchcoat in London, instead of black-haired Keanu in a slick black leather coat...and he didn't even say "whoa"! :cry:

I've given up on Bendis,

I did that ages ago. It just took me a little longer to follow through with it. I dropped New Avengers with #7 (nothing was going to make me interested in The Sentry or the so-called Avengers) and anything else that had Bendis' name on it followed...except USM, which, like i said before, was my only chance to view the ongoing adventures of my favorite literary character, Spider-Man.
Unfortunately for Bendis, he writes like crap, so now USM is gone too. I didn't even read "Silver Sable"!

and frankly, Millar as well.

He's become part of the machine now to the point where it's sickening. He's just another one of "Joe's Boys" like Bendis and Loeb and JMS and everyone else. I mean, Millar is writing "Civil War"...which we all know is based on a foundation of crap even though they won't admit it.
Millar used to be there for the entertainment. But now I've seen all his ticks and I'm tired of "Jeezus!" and "Holy Jeez!" and "moron" and "you little snot" and all that stuff. It's boring to death and it's gotten to the point where you can identify who's writing the comics even if you didn't read the credits! And, hey...you said it better than I did further on in your message:

"Millar's fascination with celebrity and politics ends up making his works as shallow as those societal institutions - which is a terrible irony"

Excellently put, Bass.

I thought his first Millarworld was atrocious...

Well, I think that, as good comics go, Millarworld was ludicrous. But as for entertainment value? Well, I love Millarworld! Except for "The Unfunnies", but that was because it was Millar without restraint. If you here what he's said in interviews (like the older one at fanboy radio) you know that he can get worse than he's gotten and has often had his collaborators tell him to "tone it down" a bit.

but see, Millar, Bendis, and JMS have all done works I'm immensely fond of. But they also seem to have completely lost whatever it is that made them so good in the first place.

I agree.

Millar's best works were his Superman stories, Authority, and The Ultimates. But everything else is mediocre to terrible because Millar's fascination with celebrity and politics ends up making his works as shallow as those societal institutions - which is a terrible irony.

I'll admit that I didn't read any Millar work before UXM because I didn't know he existed. For that matter, i didn't read many comics back then at all, so it's not so much anyone's fault there as it is just a lack of industry-related knowledge.
But I can see what you mean.

Bendis had some real good stories on USM for the first 20 or so issues, and Daredevil was brilliant up until around #60. Jinx was good, and so was Alias for a while. But Bendis' inability to write endings means that while his runs start well, he's incapable of finishing them effectively, and after a certain point, he tanks what he's writing.

I used to love Bendis' work, but its not just his inability to end stories, it's the fact that he doesn't understand good story structure. He forgets that just because HE knows how his stories are going to develop, it doesn't mean that the ride will be as gleeful for us as it is for him!
Case in point, the 616 and Ultimate "conspiracies". So far neither story is going anywhere and it's barely clear what parts of which stories even make up part of the 'conspiracy', yet he's been flogging the same poor, old, dead horse for at least five years in two alternate universes now!
But because HE knows what he wants to get to, and he enjoys writing in whatever goes with that ending, he feels its working. If his sales dropped then maybe his big inflated head would drop with it...in the meantime, it's pretty much "Bendis No More!" for me.

JMS has done Babylon 5 (a HUGE feat) as well as Crusade, his initial stuff on ASM was great, and so is Supreme Power - but JMS' desire for honesty as well as his stubborness seems to have him not only repeating ideas he's had before, but to also explain them to a point of banality, or worse, to take an idea he has and unrelentingly pursue it to the point of madness.

JMS is a damn good storyteller, but he is so into the repetition of story elements its not even funny. Particularly when certain story elements don't work. I didn't watch "Babylon 5" or read anything he did before ASM#30 (vol.2), and I wanted to pick up "Supreme Power" in trade, but when "Sins Past" came out I vowed never to read another JMS comic until JMS left "Amazing Spider-Man" and the spider-books as a whole.
So far everything he's touched at Marvel has been about retelling origins. He made Spider-Man part of a "wheel of fate"; he redid Dr. Strange's origin...and THEN he went so far with the FF's origin as to make Reed Richards the equivalent of GOD!!?!?!?!!!!?
What's worse is his stubbornness. I wouldn't mind if he did all this then said "hey, you guys didn't like it, that's okay. to each their own. some people liked it. lots of people bought it, and as long as that goes on i'll be here."
But instead he totally believes he's done NOTHING! Not "nothing wrong" but NOTHING! He says that he's examined the origins from a new perspective without changing anything!?!
How is having a Spider-God tell Spider-Man he was "chosen" NOT changing anything!? How is making Reed Richards the guy who planned the universe NOT changing anything!?

*takes deep breath*

JMS rant ended.

Shame, as these guys can write much better than what they're doing now.

Agreed.

*sighs*

 

[Bass]

Any recommendations?

Loads. Get anything from the ABC line. Grant Morrison's JLA or X-Men. The Earth X trilogy. Kingdom Come. V for Vendetta. 100 Bullets. Y the Last Man. Global Frequency.

but I like Loeb's work (in theory anyway; I've never read Superman/Batman or much of his recent stuff)

What stuff of his have you read? The best things I've read by him were The Long Halloween and its sequel, Dark Victory, and they were both 'okay'.

Unfortunately for Bendis, he writes like crap, so now USM is gone too. I didn't even read "Silver Sable"!

The last issue of USM I bought was the last issue of "Hobgoblin".

Millar used to be there for the entertainment. But now I've seen all his ticks and I'm tired of "Jeezus!" and "Holy Jeez!" and "moron" and "you little snot" and all that stuff. It's boring to death and it's gotten to the point where you can identify who's writing the comics even if you didn't read the credits!

Yes. At best, this is his 'style', at worst this is because he's writing the first thing that comes to his head.

Alan Moore wrote that someone's style is just a nice way of saying they're cliches. Bryan Hitch even said that a style is just an individual's errors.

And Ernest Hemmingway once said, "The first draft of anything is ****".

I'll admit that I didn't read any Millar work before UXM because I didn't know he existed. For that matter, i didn't read many comics back then at all, so it's not so much anyone's fault there as it is just a lack of industry-related knowledge.

Millar's Superman: Red Son, his twelve issues on The Authority, and his dozen or so issues on Superman Adventures are all brilliant.

I used to love Bendis' work, but its not just his inability to end stories, it's the fact that he doesn't understand good story structure. He forgets that just because HE knows how his stories are going to develop, it doesn't mean that the ride will be as gleeful for us as it is for him!
Case in point, the 616 and Ultimate "conspiracies". So far neither story is going anywhere and it's barely clear what parts of which stories even make up part of the 'conspiracy', yet he's been flogging the same poor, old, dead horse for at least five years in two alternate universes now!
But because HE knows what he wants to get to, and he enjoys writing in whatever goes with that ending, he feels its working. If his sales dropped then maybe his big inflated head would drop with it...in the meantime, it's pretty much "Bendis No More!" for me.

Tell me about it. Thing is, the reason this guy's story structure is so bad and how he doesn't resolve stories is precisely because he can't write endings. He spends most of his time telling stories in which characters talk at each other but never resolve anything, then when he does resolve something, he copies the soap opera and resolves the story uncerimoniously and creates new sub-plots in the ending that create new unresolved stories to hide the fact he can't conclusively end a story. It's a perpetual cycle of wussing out.

JMS is a damn good storyteller, but he is so into the repetition of story elements its not even funny. Particularly when certain story elements don't work. I didn't watch "Babylon 5" or read anything he did before ASM#30 (vol.2), and I wanted to pick up "Supreme Power" in trade, but when "Sins Past" came out I vowed never to read another JMS comic until JMS left "Amazing Spider-Man" and the spider-books as a whole.

There are tons of dialogue ticks as well, as well as philosophical statements that JMS just repeats ad infinitum. Babylon 5 however, is really, really good. I really enjoy it.

What's worse is his stubbornness. I wouldn't mind if he did all this then said "hey, you guys didn't like it, that's okay. to each their own. some people liked it. lots of people bought it, and as long as that goes on i'll be here."
But instead he totally believes he's done NOTHING! Not "nothing wrong" but NOTHING! He says that he's examined the origins from a new perspective without changing anything!?!
How is having a Spider-God tell Spider-Man he was "chosen" NOT changing anything!? How is making Reed Richards the guy who planned the universe NOT changing anything!?

Exactly. It's just nonsense. Look at this "Bullet Point" story he wants to do where he's changing the origin of the Marvel Universe for an non-canon story. He takes a simple and enjoyable premise of killing the scientist responsible for the super soldier serum before Rogers becomes Cap, and thus tells the story of the Marvel universe without Cap. But for some reason, he decides the scientist was being chauffered by a young Ben Parker. WTF? Why not just also have the Starks and Richards there too and have them gunned down? The whole point of the story - to illustrate the domino effect of a single bullet - is completely undercut because he's stacking the cards of his house to hide the fact it's paper-thin. Shame.