Improve an Ult. Spider-Man story arc…

BAMF!

Well-Known Member
…Without changing the end result. Any introductions, deaths, resurrections, powering or de-powering of a character plus any important information they gain in the story, (i.e. learning Spider-man is Peter Parker,) would still have to happen.

So, you can try to tell a better Clone Saga, but MJGoblin, Doc Magnetopus and Gwenage would all have to be in there :p Or try to improve Carnage, but Gwen still has to die.

I hope I made the rules are clear enough. Oh, also, you can’t kill off any characters that live through the arc, so saying “MJ dies” or "Bendis dies" is not an option :p

P.S. Is this in the right thread? I wasn't sure where else it would go :?
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
…Without changing the end result. Any introductions, deaths, resurrections, powering or de-powering of a character plus any important information they gain in the story, (i.e. learning Spider-man is Peter Parker,) would still have to happen.

So, you can try to tell a better Clone Saga, but MJGoblin, Doc Magnetopus and Gwenage would all have to be in there :p Or try to improve Carnage, but Gwen still has to die.

I hope I made the rules are clear enough. Oh, also, you can’t kill off any characters that live through the arc, so saying “MJ dies” or "Bendis dies" is not an option :p

P.S. Is this in the right thread? I wasn't sure where else it would go :?

It's a new thread - that's fine. Good idea.

Biggest thing? Don't make Green Goblin into Hulk. Make him crazy with a goofy mask like the OLD 616 Goblin. Hulk Goblin is stupid.
 

SSJmole

Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
Obvious I would go here first but Venom - needs webbing and to talk like "We are venom" ok i'll allow grown in a lab it's more realistic but when you remove his spider-man powers then you DO NOT ultimize him.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the ultimate universe was to keep the heart of the what the characters were but do them in a whole new way. Venom = evil spider-man so he needs spider-mans powers.

carnage should of been a second venom suit that bonded with Cletus Kasady

Secret Six - too long to explain :lol:

besides that everything so far (up to end of silver sable) has been perfect
 

TwilightEL

Well-Known Member
Obvious I would go here first but Venom - needs webbing and to talk like "We are venom" ok i'll allow grown in a lab it's more realistic but when you remove his spider-man powers then you DO NOT ultimize him.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the ultimate universe was to keep the heart of the what the characters were but do them in a whole new way. Venom = evil spider-man so he needs spider-mans powers.

Ultimate Venom does have webs and Spider-Man powers.
 

SSJmole

Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
Ultimate Venom does have webs and Spider-Man powers.

only at the end of the game

I was referring to the arc when his powers are tentacles that whips and he only climbs walls by digging into them not actually spider-man style.
 
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DGspider-fan

Well-Known Member
I like 616 Venom but my opinion is the Ultimate Venom is a much better character.

I don't think it's nessesary for him to have the same exact powers as Spidey. Not having the same powers adds to the biological aspect of the suit, and makes it more interesting than an alien that adapts and copies powers.

If you look at Ultimate Venom as the anti-spiderman then I can see how you might have a problem with the ultimazation.



I would change the Silver Sable arc to make more sense continuity wise with the video game.

I would rather not have the Gwen clone be a Carnage monster either.
 
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Ultimate Quicksilver

Well-Known Member
I like 616 Venom but my opinion is the Ultimate Venom is a much better character.

I don't think it's nessesary for him to have the same exact powers as Spidey. Not having the same powers adds to the biological aspect of the suit, and makes it more interesting than an alien that adapts and copies powers.

If you look at Ultimate Venom as the anti-spiderman then I can see how you might have a problem with the ultimazation.



I would change the Silver Sable arc to make more sense continuity wise with the video game.

I would rather not have the Gwen clone be a Carnage monster either.

I love Ultimate Venom for the exact same reason, It kinda like emulates the powers that it knows from previous hosts... It would be make a nice story if Venom would get another hosts and another powers.
 

BAMF!

Well-Known Member
I would rather not have the Gwen clone be a Carnage monster either.

Well of course, we all would. But what I'm asking in this thread is how would you have her still be a Carnage monster, and yet make a good story out of it?

Yes, it's impossible, but that's why I asked :p
 

Bass

Nexus of the World
Don't tempt me BAMF!

Understand, I would use this thread from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.
 

TwilightEL

Well-Known Member
Don't tempt me BAMF!

Understand, I would use this thread from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine.

I was so excited when I saw Bass had posted in the thread, but all I got was this copout. I would curse your name, except I'm pretty sure that doing so would result in my instantaneous death.

I'll post something about Clone Saga later.
 

Ninja4peace

Well-Known Member
For clone saga someone suggested having kaine and doc ock scheming together, I love that idea maybe if ock had a chip implanted in kaine to control him or spy on the others....and something went wrong..

Also something needs to be done with the long drawn out spiel from "Richard Parker" either make it true or cut it completely DON'T put it in issue 100.
 

BAMF!

Well-Known Member
My brain just exploded.

That's the benefit of not having one!

if you mean clones can they be called :

  • Sporty clone
  • Ginger Clone
  • Scary clone
  • Posh clone
  • Baby clone


please?

ROTFL :lol:

Bass replied to my thread, I feel so loved :D

Okay, I've been trying to figure out how to redo my two least favorite storylines: Carnage and Clone Saga. This is what I've got so far, just rough ideas really:

Carnage
Introductions: Carnage, Ben Reilly
Deaths: Gwen Stacy, Carnage
Resurrections: None
Powering: None
De-powering: None
Information Gained: Blood Sample gained by Ben Reilly

Okay, well, I've said this before; I don't know 616 Spider-Man all that well, so I'm just kinda guessing with this. Venom probably should have been in this arc, and Carnage should have been bonded to Cletus Kasady. I also didn't like Carnage's origin so much, but I'm not sure how I'd change that.

The only way I could think to make Gwen's death better is if it established an archenemy for Spider-man, like Goblin killing her in 616. So, maybe if Venom were to do it, (since Carnage has to die at the end of the arc,) but I don't know why or if Venom's the kind of person to do that.

And Ben Reilly... I wonder why they made him a lab-assistant, since it was obvious Bendis knew he was going to be doing the Clone Saga at the time. Well, I've never read any issues with Ben Reilly, (just a couple with Peter disguised as Ben,) so I guess I'd leave this how it is.

Clone Saga
Introductions: Scorpion, Spider-Woman, Tarantula, Richard Parker, Kaine, Spider-Slayers
Deaths: Tarantula, Richard Parker, Kaine
Resurrections: Gwen Stacy
Powering: Gwen Stacy (Carnage), MJ (Injected with Oz), Doc Ock (Magneto powers)
De-powering: MJ
Information Gained: A way to counteract Oz

Well, I'd definitely delve more into what pushed the Government to try and make a second Superteam, and why they needed Doc Ock’s help. All the clones should have gotten as much character growth as Jessica did, (who was the only part of Clone Saga which was actually good.)

I hate killing off all the clones in the end, but if you're going to do it, make it seem less convenient.

I think I’d make Richard Parker just a rapidly growing clone that warns Spider-Man that something’s up before he dies.

Kaine is another person I don't know from 616, but I heard he's more evil there. I could definitely see Doc Ock and him scheming, and this way MJGoblin could be much more dramatic and scary. Maybe he's experimenting with her and the Oz, using her as a lab rat, rather then some deluded guy trying to give her powers.

She'd become a Goblin briefly, before being cured. The Oz cure wouldn't apply to Spider-man though, because of the roundabout way he got his powers.

Doc Ock would have his arms back, and just have a device that allows him to manipulate magnetic fields, like the one they had in Magnetic North. It has no reason for being there, but what can I do? :p

Gwenage, hmmm... Um, make her the real Gwen, not a clone. I guess we could say that Carnage survived his death in "Carnage", (and Cassidy didn’t,) and then bonded to Gwen and brought her back to life... Somehow (yeah, that's pretty bad, but hey, look at what I'm working with!) Maybe they wouldn't know how to separate her from the symbiont without killing her, so Fury catches her to try and figure it out, as a favor to Peter.

That's it. It's not terribly better, but it's somewhat of an improvement, I think.
 
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TwilightEL

Well-Known Member
For clone saga someone suggested having kaine and doc ock scheming together, I love that idea maybe if ock had a chip implanted in kaine to control him or spy on the others....and something went wrong..

Also something needs to be done with the long drawn out spiel from "Richard Parker" either make it true or cut it completely DON'T put it in issue 100.

Everyone? I'm afraid to announce that Ninja4peace has won the thread. I realize no one else has tried to submit an improved arc, and he didn't either, and it isn't a contest, but that's just the way Grindhouse references work. He wins.

Huh? Oh, right, improving arcs.

TWILIGHTEL’S CLONE SAGA, PART 1 OF 2

First, I’ll list what I think must be accomplished, according to the rules.

Demogoblin. *gags*
Tarantula shows up and dies.
Kaine shows up and dies.
Doc Ock is behind it all and survives. Also, because BAMF is evil, “IT WAS THE METAL! ALL ALONG, IT WAS THE METAL!”
Spider-Woman, Jessica Drew, must show up.
Ben Reilly’s role is the same.
Gwarnage.
Scorpion.
Madame Webb.
May finds out about Peter.
MJ and Peter get back together.
Old Peter shows up and dies. I’m not having him think he’s Peter’s dad. It’s stupid.
Spider Slayers show up.
FF find out Peter’s secret identity.
Scorpion and Gwen in SHIELD custody.

Wow, that’s a lot. Wish I didn’t have to kill so many clones, poor Kaine is just destined to be an awesome villain. I want to spend more time on the clones and not the stupid teenage drama. I know it’s sort of fudging the rules, but I’m going to suggest a couple of loose ends which could be left out, but I think would improve it.

Cassandra Webb is walking (rolling? Wasn’t she in a wheelchair?) along a hallway past cell doors with a guy in a suit. There is no ID badge or whatever visible on the man that would let you know who he’s working with, but it’s not a plot point. They’re talking about a recruitment program that SHIELD set up for ex-baddies. Mention of the Tinkerer and possibly Miles Warren, though by the rules I can’t do anything with him. They’re talking vaguely about how her talents might “come in handy” and stuff like that. They reach a cell with a shadowed figure in it. The guy asks her if she thinks she can do anything with him. She smiles and says yes, but in a really creepy way.

Cut to a few months later. Madame Webb and Doc Ock walk out of a lab in plain sight of some guards, who Webb has lobotomized with her powers. They’ll never recover. Think if Purple Man were a chick with ambition. Webb is a psychologist and her powers involve memory and the mind, but can and usually do cause massive brain damage (on her victim) when she uses them. She’s called in her last favor with a friend in SHIELD and some other people so that it’ll be years before the bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo is untangled and people realize they’re missing. The two go to the bunker seen in the Hobgoblin arc. This is why Webb teamed up with Ock, to get somewhere invisible to SHIELD where she could hide. Ock looks at some samples he’s found there. In the first arc, Ock took two blood samples under Osborn’s direction. One of them was immediately after the accident when Peter’s cells were dissolving. Another was from when he’d finished mutating and had all his powers.

Ock uses the good blood and the crappy blood to make clones, one from each sample. The crappy cells make Kaine and the good cells make Scorpion. Both are brain dead and Ock has them set up in regenerative pod things that Osborn made in case he ever got sick or injured, so their muscles won’t atrophy while he’s studying them. Ock wants to attach the spare arms we saw in Hobgoblin to himself, but he doesn’t know how to reproduce the accident. He decides to experiment on Scorpion’s spine.

Madame Webb is rebuilding her power base in New York City (the lab is somewhere in rural New York state) and she meets Ben Reilly, who’s been blacklisted (who wants to hire someone who’s been in trouble with SHIELD?) and is looking desperately for work. She finds out about Carnage by scanning his mind. The next day, she yells “Honey, I’m home!” and walks (rolls?) into the bunker with Ben and his Carnage sample. Ock experiments with it and exposes the clones to it. They wake up with motor functions and language skills and start to recall Peter’s memories up until the night he was fighting Gladiator and got the cut Carnage was cloned from.

Ock is barely able to contain his evil glee. He keeps using Scorpion for experiments on his spinal cord (very painful experiments). Scorpion’s memories aren’t very good because of the pain. Eventually, Scorpion gets his tail and kickass suit, but it’s not good enough for Ock because Scorpion’s attached to the suit. He turns to Kaine, who has been sitting abandoned in a cell all this time with memories filtering back. Ock talks to him for a bit and decides to name him Cain (I hate that stupid 90s excess ‘k’ spelling fad) because Ock will use him to destroy Peter. However, Ock has cracked the secret of cloning and can’t help but experiment some more. The first thing he does is make Jessica, because he wanted to see if he could and because she’d have a miserable existence—always fun! (Even evil memory-wipers involved in organized crime have some mercy, so let’s assume Webb gave her a hand with feminine hygiene.) Webb sees the potential in this, because they’ve got a little super-soldier factory set up. She decides to have him make more clones whose minds she can wipe and then sell. Ock makes Tarantula (he gets a name) and Not!Richard (by accident) and Carnage II (sort of by accident). Carnage II busts the hell out and the clones come with him before their memories are wiped, except for Scorpion. Webb and Ock take Scorpion with them, sedated, into New York City, so he can beat up the other clones, who got there by hitchhiking on trucks or just running. Scorpion’s mind is further tampered with, but it doesn’t take and he escapes.

It’s revealed that the Carnage which munched Gwen survived the smokestack, but is weak and dying. Carnage II finds it and the two merge, producing Gwarnage. What? Shut up! It’s not any worse than Bendis’ version.

The clones mostly do the things they were doing in the original Ultimate Clone Saga. Scorpion smashes up the mall, Cain makes a beeline for Mary Jane, Tarantula looks for Cain, and Jessica looks for Peter. (The Jessica identity was, as in the original, set up for her by Webb but she escaped before it was retconned into her memory.) Richard does different things.

Unlike in the original UCS, they work at cross-purposes. Scorpion is so crazy he can’t think, so he doesn’t really want anything. Webb played off of Peter’s fear for MJ’s safety and brainwashed Cain into wanting to inject her with OZ and forgetting about the spider. Tarantula has just been created and thus is slightly spastic with the six arms. Webb and Ock didn’t talk to/taunt him as much as they did the other clones, and he still secretly thinks he might not be a clone or might be able to look normal somehow. Richard (Ock named him that as a joke after seeing how much he looked like Peter’s dad) has realized that he’s dying and is panicking over this. He’s torn between wanting to help people and wanting to look for a way to delay his death, or at least have some fun before he degenerates to pieces. Jessica is resigned to what she is and that’s why she’s the one who worries the most about the others.

I’m bored with writing this and I want feedback, so I’ll go ahead and post part 1 now. I’ll finish it later.
 
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The Overlord

Well-Known Member
I think a great to improve a lot of the story arcs is to give the villains actual motives and make them 3 dimensional characters, instead of making them generic evil throw away characters. Seriously almost every USM villain has about as much depth as a Silver age marvel villain.
 
Having the older version of Peter (his so-call father) falling off the building, instead of just dying. With Sue saying "oh, crap."
 
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