Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 2)

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iammattie said:
No clue where you get that conclusion from. We see a literal physical interpretation of the time stream and once the stone is replaced in it, the branched timeline disappears.
Click to expand...
Restoring the timeline doesn't mean the branched timeline literally disappears, it just means it's been repaired to the point that it has all of its infinity stones. Returning the mind stone to 2012 doesn't change the fact that Loki escaped with the Tesseract, which will definitely have repercussions down the line. Returning the power stone to 2014 doesn't stop Thanos from coming to the future and Nebula dying. Returning the stones to the past clearly does not erase alternate timelines.
 
I'm going to tell this to everyone who believed the tv shows were non-canon.

Avengers: Endgame featured Edwin Jarvis from Agent Carter, therefore it is 100% canon. Not just the character, but the same actor. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. features a design of Howard Stark's from Agent Carter. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. features a reference to the events of Daredevil, specifically a gang war, on a tv. It also features a Judas Bullet from Luke Cage, believe it or not. Micro from The Punisher helps out Coulsons S.H.I.E.L.D. in Season 2. Inhumans references the Terragen in the water supply from the end of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 2. Runaways features a background character from the pilot of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. Cloak & Dagger references both the movies and the netflix shows, and O'Reilly was friends with Misty Night. She also knew Ben Urich, as evidenced on season 2.
 
Pro Bot said:
I'm going to tell this to everyone who believed the tv shows were non-canon.

Avengers: Endgame featured Edwin Jarvis from Agent Carter, therefore it is 100% canon. Not just the character, but the same actor. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. features a design of Howard Stark's from Agent Carter. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. features a reference to the events of Daredevil, specifically a gang war, on a tv. It also features a Judas Bullet from Luke Cage, believe it or not. Micro from The Punisher helps out Coulsons S.H.I.E.L.D. in Season 2. Inhumans references the Terragen in the water supply from the end of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 2. Runaways features a background character from the pilot of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. Cloak & Dagger references both the movies and the netflix shows, and O'Reilly was friends with Misty Night. She also knew Ben Urich, as evidenced on season 2.
Click to expand...
What character from the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. pilot is in Runaways?
 
joshjodalton said:
Restoring the timeline doesn't mean the branched timeline literally disappears, it just means it's been repaired to the point that it has all of its infinity stones. Returning the mind stone to 2012 doesn't change the fact that Loki escaped with the Tesseract, which will definitely have repercussions down the line. Returning the power stone to 2014 doesn't stop Thanos from coming to the future and Nebula dying. Returning the stones to the past clearly does not erase alternate timelines.
Click to expand...

Once again, we see the branches literally be erased once the stones are returned, so I believe your interpretation is flawed. I'll concede that things are sticky with the Space Stone and Power Stone, but from what I understand, the split timeline where Thanos, Gamora, and Nebula go to the future is essentially cut off once the stone is returned. Those events happened and then they didn't. The space stone is a bit stickier, but we also dont know specifically what happened when Cap returned the stones. The fact of the matter is that if it were all alternate timelines, then cap aging would set him to be in an alternate timeline and not back in the original one.
 
iammattie said:
Once again, we see the branches literally be erased once the stones are returned, so I believe your interpretation is flawed. I'll concede that things are sticky with the Space Stone and Power Stone, but from what I understand, the split timeline where Thanos, Gamora, and Nebula go to the future is essentially cut off once the stone is returned. Those events happened and then they didn't. The space stone is a bit stickier, but we also dont know specifically what happened when Cap returned the stones. The fact of the matter is that if it were all alternate timelines, then cap aging would set him to be in an alternate timeline and not back in the original one.
Click to expand...

Completely agree, she shows that once you go back and replace the stones, branched timelines no longer exist. Of course the plot hole is that not only would he have to replace the stones, he would have to stop all interactions made. Replacing the sceptre doesn't stop Cap from fighting Cap for example.

If old man cap was from an alternate timeline he couldn't return to theirs, the device Stark made navigates them back to their quantum machine in a set time and place. He couldn't make another and jump to a different timeline, that makes no sense.
So he had to have gone back and been with Peggy in the same timeline. Just assume she kept it a secret which I imagine she was good at and when she says 'Steve, you came back' during the Winter Soldier, it may have been she believed he came back in time yet again as a younger Cap. She also had dementia.
He clearly ages as well as Rocket who would be a very old raccoon.
 
Avengers - Infinity War Chapter 19: "Aftermath" (2:11:11 - 2:14:16)
Avengers - Endgame: Prelude #3 (pg. 21)
Avengers - Endgame: The Pirate Angel, The Talking Tree, and Captain Rabbit (Epilogue: Wakanda)
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Ant-Man and the Wasp Chapter 18: "End Credits" (1:49:00 - 1:51:01)
Avengers - Infinity War Chapter 20: "End Credits" (2:27:33 - 2:29:06)
Captain Marvel - Prelude #1, "The Peacekeepers" (pg. 17-20)
Avengers - Infinity War Chapter 19: "Aftermath" (2:14:17 - 2:17:30)
Avengers - Endgame: Prelude #3 (pg. 21)
Ant-Man and the Wasp Chapter 18: "End Credits" (1:57:29 - 1:57:53)
Captain Marvel Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**

????
Avengers - Infinity War: The Cosmic Quest - Volume Two: Aftermath (Prologue, Chapters 1-10, Epilogue)
The Punisher 2x13: "The Whirlwind" (0:52:58 - 0:55:22)

2019
????
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x01: "Missing Pieces"** (May 10, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x02: "Window of Opportunity"** (May 17, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x03: "Fear and Loathing on the Planet of Kitson"** (May 24, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x04: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x05: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x06: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x07: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x08: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x09: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x10: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x11: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x12: "????"** (????, 2019)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 6x13: "????"** (????, 2019)

2023
July
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Avengers - Endgame Chapter ?**
Spider-Man - Far From Home** (July 2, 2019)

Everyone agree?

Also, how did I miss https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Howard_the_Duck in Avengers: Endgame? He's my favourite character!
 
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iammattie said:
Once again, we see the branches literally be erased once the stones are returned, so I believe your interpretation is flawed. I'll concede that things are sticky with the Space Stone and Power Stone, but from what I understand, the split timeline where Thanos, Gamora, and Nebula go to the future is essentially cut off once the stone is returned. Those events happened and then they didn't. The space stone is a bit stickier, but we also dont know specifically what happened when Cap returned the stones. The fact of the matter is that if it were all alternate timelines, then cap aging would set him to be in an alternate timeline and not back in the original one.
Click to expand...
Another problem arises then, because if Steve changed the timeline so that 2014 Thanos never came to the future, then that means Tony never died and the timeline gets all screwed up again. I agree that Cap lived his whole life in an alternate timeline and then came back to the main timeline after Peggy's death. That's the only way any of the logic of time travel presented in the movie remains consistent. It also de-complicates the timeline.
 
joshjodalton said:
Another problem arises then, because if Steve changed the timeline so that 2014 Thanos never came to the future, then that means Tony never died and the timeline gets all screwed up again. I agree that Cap lived his whole life in an alternate timeline and then came back to the main timeline after Peggy's death. That's the only way any of the logic of time travel presented in the movie remains consistent. It also de-complicates the timeline.
Click to expand...
Again, my timeline theory is without flaws, as long as you believe The Terminator Kyle Reece thing wasn't a paradox. Different time travel, same loop, just infinitely stranger. I don't like Cap teleporting off screen. Seems unreasonable. I'm all for including Steve/Peggy in the canon Earth-199999 timeline. I'm Just not for off-screen explanations when other options are available.
 
Pro Bot said:
Again, my timeline theory is without flaws, as long as you believe The Terminator Kyle Reece thing wasn't a paradox. Different time travel, same loop infinitely.
Click to expand...
Your theory negates the established rules of time travel in this universe.
 
joshjodalton said:
Another problem arises then, because if Steve changed the timeline so that 2014 Thanos never came to the future, then that means Tony never died and the timeline gets all screwed up again. I agree that Cap lived his whole life in an alternate timeline and then came back to the main timeline after Peggy's death. That's the only way any of the logic of time travel presented in the movie remains consistent. It also de-complicates the timeline.
Click to expand...

That's really not an issue. It's a self-fulfilling time loop. He goes back, fixes it so that everything plays out as it initially did, which in turn causes it to happen again and be un-done ad infinitum. Something tells me that paradox is specifically why the line of the Mobius strip was inserted into the dialogue about time travel. It curves and loops back in on itself. There's no way cap would have been able to come back to the main timeline from an alternate timeline. that doesn't make sense with anything we actually see in the film. We specifically see that he doesn't come back through the machine. He aged to this point. If it had been lived out in an alternate timeline he wouldn't have the ability to be there.
 
joshjodalton said:
Exactly. Nothing is a loop because traveling back in time only creates new timelines and never affects the regular timeline.
Click to expand...
my theory is that there is no regular timeline. The universe they are in was created by an identical universe in an ever-lasting loop. It's not the regular timeline, but it seems like it.
 
iammattie said:
That's really not an issue. It's a self-fulfilling time loop. He goes back, fixes it so that everything plays out as it initially did, which in turn causes it to happen again and be un-done ad infinitum. Something tells me that paradox is specifically why the line of the Mobius strip was inserted into the dialogue about time travel. It curves and loops back in on itself. There's no way cap would have been able to come back to the main timeline from an alternate timeline. that doesn't make sense with anything we actually see in the film. We specifically see that he doesn't come back through the machine. He aged to this point. If it had been lived out in an alternate timeline he wouldn't have the ability to be there.
Click to expand...
All of the Avengers are able to return to the normal timeline after taking the stones from alternate timelines, which shows that it can be done. Notice that no one notices old man Steve on the bench until after young Steve disappears, showing that he just appeared there.
 
joshjodalton said:
Exactly. Nothing is a loop because traveling back in time only creates new timelines and never affects the regular timeline.
Click to expand...
Not true, it's all a loop, by going back a replacing the stones everything plays out exactly the same. Thanos gets the stones, snaps, the team go back in time, bring everyone back and the undo it all over again infinitely. New timelines are erased. Banner and the Ancient one made this very clear
 
joshjodalton said:
All of the Avengers are able to return to the normal timeline after taking the stones from alternate timelines, which shows that it can be done. Notice that no one notices old man Steve on the bench until after young Steve disappears, showing that he just appeared there.
Click to expand...
He couldn't have just appeared there. That's not how the time machine worked.
 
joshjodalton said:
All of the Avengers are able to return to the normal timeline after taking the stones from alternate timelines, which shows that it can be done. Notice that no one notices old man Steve on the bench until after young Steve disappears, showing that he just appeared there.
Click to expand...

Those aren't alternate timelines.

joshjodalton said:
Your theory negates the established rules of time travel in this universe.
Click to expand...
 
crafty100 said:
Not true, it's all a loop, by going back a replacing the stones everything plays out exactly the same. Thanos gets the stones, snaps, the team go back in time, bring everyone back and the undo it all over again infinitely. New timelines are erased. Banner and the Ancient one made this very clear
Click to expand...
Banner and the Ancient One made it clear that her timeline is different from his timeline.
 
iammattie said:
Those aren't alternate timelines.
Click to expand...
Even if you're right about the returning of the stones somehow erasing alternate timelines, they hadn't returned the stones yet, so the alternate timelines existed. Therefore they returned to the main timeline from the alternate timelines.
 
joshjodalton said:
Even if you're right about the returning of the stones somehow erasing alternate timelines, they hadn't returned the stones yet, so the alternate timelines existed. Therefore they returned to the main timeline from the alternate timelines.
Click to expand...

Once again, self-fulfilling loop. The stones are always returned because they were always returned.
 
My Theory
Steve at the end is not the same Steve who left to deliver the stones. He's an alternative universe Steve created by another Steve who went back to deliver the stones. It's a loop of infinite Captain America's asses. This way the time travel machine isn't contradicted, and my understanding of the timeline stays intact.

In my opinion, the other scenes are alternative timelines/universes as well, but i do like the theory that when you put back the stones, it's the same timeline.
 
iammattie said:
IF the stone was removed from it, and IF it was not returned. I don't understand why you keep leaving this out.
Click to expand...
Because that's not what she says. She makes it clear that their timelines are different, and her timeline would be doomed if he didn't return the stone, but would not affect his timeline. Failure to return the stones would not affect Bruce's timeline at all, but would doom the Ancient One's timeline.
 

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