I hate(d) TRN. I think when I orginally did this deadpool 2 was still a TRN and I gave it a reality number that by accidently corresponded to actual content. Since there are proper reality numbers now I will put this on my to revise list.
Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 3)
- Thread starter Starvel
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I like this explanation but Marvel goes back and forth on confirmation of AoS is ever set on 616 especially considering that (I believe) AoS is not on the Disney+ Timeline (which is trash but semi-official) and the timeline book. So by that standards its hard for me just to dump all of AoS and its related content into the strict order. I can definitely revise the universe numbering on the non strict orders.
Pro Bot
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That's okay, no worries. It reminds me of this post that placed the Netflix shows in Earth-1045, which is... transgender Daredevil, lol.
1. Marvel doesn't go back and fourth on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. confirmation.
2. Agent Carter isn't on the Disney+ timeline. Cloak & Dagger and Runaways aren't on the timeline (though the latter isn't available anymore). They only added the Netflix shows on the timeline because people were confused about whether they were the same versions, which Marvel, by statement, thought was "inferred". It was a business strategy to increase interest in Echo too, let's be honest.
3. The timeline book doesn't include Netflix either, but you know that they're canon.
4. The official Marvel website (not a wiki, but an actual Marvel-ran site) even lists Nick Fury's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. appearances as part of his biography.
You include Runaways as part of the main timeline but not Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. despite the fact that the Darkhold in Runaways is a direct continuation of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. since it was sent to the Dark Dimension which is where Morgan was located in Runaways.
MCU -> Netflix -> Cloak & Dagger (-> Hestrom) -> Runaways -> Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (-> Inhumans) -> Agent Carter -> MCU
Every show has connections, even small ones in the case of Helstrom (although the Sokovia Accords are referenced in that series off-screen).
gerosuprastyles
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Let me clarify something, when I wrote this, first and without realizing it I did it in "report" and not in "reply", I don't know how reports work on this site, it was an accident
Please don't take my response here as argumentative! I am more interested in being accurate than correct...
1. When AoS was created it was meant to be 100% canon (obviously). This quote from Feige in the timeline book "On the Multiverse note, we recognize that there are stories - movies and series - that are canonical to Marvel but were created by different storytellers during different periods of Marvel's history. The timeline presented in this book is specific to the MCU's Sacred Timeline through Phase 4. But, as we move forward and dive deeper into the Multiverse Saga, you never know when timelines may just crash or converge.." really has me thinking that they are trying their best to make it non main 616/199999. I personally would love it to be 100% canon and think the explanation you linked there would be a very valid way to making that happen.
2. Agent Carter is on the Disney+ Timeline, just not in the United States/North America. I believe I have some screenshots of this although thats not official confirmation. The fact that Disney lists all the Team Thor shorts under One Shots but not in the official Disney+ Timeline would lead me to suspect that they are purposely filtering out this non 'sacred timeline' content.
3. Fair. My only reasoning would be that Marvel did not consider it canon until a couple weeks before echo released (hence why they cut a large amount of the DD scenes from Echo) and at that point the book had already been published, but still fair.
4. It is my understanding that although thats an official marvel website that marvel has been lazy recently. They have been pulling tons of content from the wiki. I have a dude Im in a group with on discord who helps with the wiki and has identified stuff like Nick Furys alias being Son of a Bitch and the fact that in Ms Marvel the DoDC had a list of powers that Ms. Marvel had and it was copied from the wiki. I have this quote but cant find the source (so take it with a grain of salt) "The VFX artists of Secret Invasion used the Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki for the content seen in Fury's file which was featured in the episode Promises. The file included the aliases of "100% Red-Blooded Earth Man" from Captain Marvel, "One-Eyed Man" from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episode The Things We Bury, "Son of a Bitch" from Avengers: Age of Ultron, and "The Most Dangerous Man" from Spider-Man: Far From Home. It also used part of the relationships section of Nick Fury's article."
5. Finally I do include both Agents of Shield (at least at first) as part of the main timeline on my Multiversal page but neither are included in my Strict MCU page as I am awaiting confirmation. I am aware that there are references to the Netflix shows in Cloak & Dagger and technically speaking by canonizing the Netflix shows you can argue that that includes AoS, Slingshot, Runaways, C & D, Agent Carter, Inhumans etc are all canon too. Its also reasonable to say that we are watching different earths but the characters on each earth are doing similar things/have similar interactions (but I personally hate that). I have always used the shows jump back as a way to classify all this non confirmed canon stuff into its own universe but I understand why that isnt the best.
In terms of Helstrom, its such an inconsequential show to the MCU but the director did say "We are not tied to the MCU. We are our own separate thing," Zbyszewski told FanBoyFactor. "There are Easter eggs in the show for sure, but they're more towards that Helstrom universe, and that Ghost Rider universe." which is probably the most confusing statement ever if they are not tied to the mcu but have easter eggs to the mcu. Makes it reasonable to me to place it either in the MCU or in a similar timeline (especially considering its set during the snap and there is no evidence of that).
hahah gonna get me banned on day 1, jkjk lmao
Pro Bot
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That quote is referring to different movies and shows not part of the MCU, like X-Men and so on. Not once does it refer to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and it equally applies to the Netflix shows, which, funny enough, refer back to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. with Cybertech, Carl Creel, and Micro, as well as Cloak & Dagger that connects to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. through Roxxon and Runaways -> Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. once again.
Yes, but not in all regions. Only in specific regions has that been applied. In the US and UK, it isn't part of it. Well, why? And if we're going based off of other countries, I recall a Disney+ Latin promotional video that places Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. in the MCU, featuring the Peggy Carter flashbacks in Season 2.
Their statements about it heavily imply that they seemingly only realised it was problematic for fans recently, as strange as that is, and that it was ALWAYS canon, they just couldn't connect to it previously due to schedules and story plans.
I'm not talking about a wiki or them copying anything from the wiki in a movie. I'm talking about Marvel.com themselves adding completely new text that isn't copied from anywhere referring to events from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
The thing is, every single show has been confirmed canon before. The only reason why people think that they aren't is mainly due to huge clickbait and misinformation rather than anything based on fact. When the Netflix shows were "confirmed" canon, my reaction was that I have seen it serveral times before, even by Fiege as recently as 2020.
Even before that statement, when the Adventure into Fear brand was announced, they intentionally made it clear that it wasn't connected to it while being set in the same universe. Quite obviously, when they're saying it's tied to a "Helstrom universe" and a "Ghost Rider universe", they mean that it isn't tied to other stories. If you take it literally like so many have before, they're calling Helstrom and Ghost Rider different universes. When they state that it isn't tied to the canon, they're not saying it isn't canon, they're saying it isn't connected to the canon (as in, narratives and stories) of the MCU.
ThoughtTie24110
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How did these two connect?
Pro Bot
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The Roxxon logo in Helstrom is taken directly from Cloak & Dagger.
Im not sure how to reply like you did with all the responses broken up.
While I agree with you that that quote is primarily focused on non MCU content it also does not reference any specific content like x-men so I dont think we can really go off of our own assumptions on what that quote is referencing. Also again, What If as a great example, just because it referenced something in a show/movie doesn't mean that event didnt happen to a majority of universes exactly how we saw it happen in a tv show, meaning a piece of content could technically be referencing an event that we only saw on a parallel earth (but again I agree that's never how it was intended).
Agent Carter being on some timelines but not others is fully on Marvel. I am aware there is an issue with placing both the one shot and the tv show but I would say its just another blip on Marvels part.
Can you link what they are adding text wise from AoS? Are you referencing the John Garrett sentence? I remember that creating a stir in the marvel force around Secret Invasion. My point was that marvel making things canon from the wiki by using it in shows is as reliable as a random employee from marvel adding a sentence about a singular season of AoS. They can either be taken exactly how they are stated - AoS would be canon but also Ms. Marvel would have powers & items in the MCU that she does not. Or they can both be taken with a grain of salt.
I agree every show started canon, I am thinking about what Marvel doesn't recognize as canon anymore. But I see what you mean that its true they technically haven't come out and said hey yeah so Runaways isnt canon anymore.
In terms of the Darkhold between agents of shield and runaways the producers "did not even consider" the agents of shield darkhold when using it in WandaVision. - Just some more of Marvel not recognizing its own 'canon' content.
I agree on Helstrom, it was intended to be a corner of the MCU but the director decided to word it weirdly.
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-agents-of-shield-mcu-canon-question - According to the Making of the Marvel Cinematic Universe the authors officially stated AC is canon and AOS is not. They also officially stated that it was not the authors interpretation but the 'history of marvel'. This link also includes a quote from Joss saying it was always a separate thing. Then later the author went back to twitter to state how the book doesn't make a "binary proclamation of any kind on shows". My point is that clearly there are conflicting opinions from up top. Why include agents of shield in the Nick Fury webpage but not the timeline. Why officially state (again) that netflix is canon but not comment on the other shows. Why list one AoS appearance but not others? etc
I think I have a tendency now with marvel to assume older content is multiversal until current confirmation and new content is MCU while you classify all content (within reason here) as canon until confirmed otherwise. I certainly will still update my universe numbers to match the time travel better and group all those other freeform/hulu shows back with it but I am likely not going to add any of them to my Strict MCU page until some more recent confirmation (like I did a couple months ago with the Netflix shows)
Pro Bot
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That's the problem. It's inference, not facts or statements. The default is that it is canon, and it is up to someone to prove that it isn't rather than the other way around. You state that the book suggests MCU TV shows aren't canon when that specifically contradicts Netflix being canon, which I'm sure you don't think is considered separate but it isn't included in the timeline book. Why are you assuming that the logic applies to Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. but not Netflix? It is inconsistent to apply that logic to Marvel TV so it should be discounted. The more consistent interpretation is that Marvel Studios is only covering their content and that comment refers to the Spider-Man films, X-Men, and other non-MCU media.
There's no issue, really. Howard Stark went on the run after his vault was raided, so S.H.I.E.L.D. was put on hold.
It is indeed the John Garrett sentence. There's a huge difference between the website and background props, because the website is expected to be read.
Once again, it's all theories and heresy that comes from nothing. You can't just say that Marvel thinks something when that hasn't been stated.
That's true, but they also stated that they assumed that it was the same book. There are numerous copies of the Darkhold either way, so it was never going to be problematic.
That's the authors making more misinterpretations of statements. Joss Whedon saying that Coulson is dead in the movies is more of a statement that the movie side is separate from a story-telling point of view. Coulson can never tell the Avengers that he's alive because it takes away from his sacrifice leading to their original team-up. Whether Marvel Studios liked the fact that they had Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. made or not, it was still considered canonical. Hell, Agent Carter even directly connects to the Hydra brainwashing in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and The Winter Soldier with Doctor Faustus in Agent Carter and the Faustus Method in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., with it even using the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Hydra theme in Agent Carter S1. There's also the Zero Matter/Darkforce connections. Agent Carter and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. are a package deal. The author doesn't speak for Marvel Studios.
selfishmisery
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JudgeDreddpool
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I'm sorry, what Earth and Daredevil!?
Zeitschiene
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R u Daredevil @JudgeDreddpool ?
JudgeDreddpool
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WHY THE FUCK WOULD I BE?! Just because I'm transgender doesn't make me automatically Daredevil, plus I ain't bloody blind!
Megatron
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??????
Megatron
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But Even then. Daredevil Isn't transgender.
JudgeDreddpool
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Also, I just looked up the whole Daredevil thing, and apparently, it's just a mere joke from a crappy Millennial Visions comic. No art or anything, just a simple comment like "oh, there was that time that Daredevil had a sex change and pre-orders were wild". That's it. A joke at the expense of transgender people like myself.
I just... I'm done. I need a minute.
Pro Bot
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Some clowns placed the Netflix shows in a random Earth that corresponds to... that, and had Earth-616 as the MCU with Earth-199999 as something else. Cringe.
