Mask Squinting 2: The Legend Continues

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Victor Von Doom

Fist of teh Internets.
This is too good a topic to not continue....


From another thread:

.....and just when they do.......you change it even more!

And you wonder why you never make it past the first round of the Greatest Member.
Listen, I never made it because I was TOO great. That contest is beneath me - I'll leave it to you commoners.
If that's what you tell yourself at night....then ok. Sounds like someone's just mad because the rest of the world doesn't share the same beliefs of mask-squinting as him.......
There is no logic in mask squinting!

ALL OF YOUR THINKINGS ARE FLAWED.
You really should open up the Mask Squinting thread in Museum.
Believe me, if I thought there would be actual discussion I would love to. But everything as just going around in circles and the discussion was too off-topic near the end. And no one would offer a counterpoint to my points, they just kept talking about how it was cute and how much they liked it. :roll:

Comic book readers are dumb.
You have a point.

I think this post best summed up the argument:

plungingforward said:
The Mask squint (and the thought balloon) is an artistic technique. A stylistic choice. A tool. Any tool can be abused, or used as a crutch. Some folks will like certain techniques, others won't.
This is a preference argument in disguise, and as right as certain people might think their preferences are, Logic CAN'T dictate preference.
Might as well try and logically argue a vanilla ice-cream lover (those commie bastards!) into prefering chocolate. Sure it is fun, but it is never going to accomplish anything.
His logic is flawed there, too. The ice cream analogy is a poor comparison.

The discussion was specifically about logic. I didn't ask anyone to qualify their preference using logic, I asked people to qualify the logic.

WHY DOESN'T ANYONE SEEM TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS?




Mask squinting.

Please to be explaining the logic?




This is 95% serious discussion.



I get that it's an artistic preference and its usage is up to the creative team....I, myself, find it appropriate at times and understand the logic in using it from one standpoint. But logically, E is correct. There is no reason for mask squinting.





Your rebuttal?
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
I don't mind it, mainly because it's always difficult to display an emotion through a static image like a mask. Adding the squint adds a dynamic to the art. The acceptableness of this is inversely proportional to the realism employed in the art. If the art is cartoony and already takes liberties with reality it's actually preferred to fit the artistic style. But in something like a MAX series that is meant for a very mature audience and take reality deadly serious it not appropriate. It's all about where it fits in this spectrum of artistic styles can it be something that heightens the are or destroys it.

And I liken the logical reason for mask squinting to logical reason to have a sound track to a film. Where is any of the music coming from? It's illogical to have any music playing when there isn't a source in the film. But the soundtrack adds level of emotions that can't be expressed through the footage itself. Just because it's illogical to use doesn't mean it can't be used to elevate the media itself.
 
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Bass

Nexus of the World
Random is absolutely correct. E, however, despite his amusing nature, is much like a penguin.

 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
It's logical when Venom does it.
Exactly. But we're talking (mostly) about Spider-Man. Or anyone who wears a mask - hence the "mask squinting". I don't think technically Venom wears a mask.

I don't mind it, mainly because it's always difficult to display an emotion through a static image like a mask.
NOT THE ISSUE.

Random is absolutely correct. E, however, despite his amusing nature, is much like a penguin.

While that is hilarious and would have been great in the Museum'd thread, it doesn't even come close to be applicable in this discussion.
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Honestly, I think comics could do with more of things like mask squinting. Comics don't need to be realistic. They should be bright and colorful and heavily stylized. Mask squinting is one of those unique little graphic touches that only works in comics and effectively works in comics.
 

SSJmole

Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
Maybe it's an extension of Spider-man's spider powers. Not joking. He sticks to wallls with suit on. We are talking about a stickiness in his skin he can activate. Maybe it makes his tight mask stick to his face some so when he makes a o_O face the mask been stuck to him makes a o_O face also.
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Maybe it's an extension of Spider-man's spider powers. Not joking. He sticks to wallls with suit on. We are talking about a stickiness in his skin he can activate. Maybe it makes his tight mask stick to his face some so when he makes a o_O face the mask been stuck to him makes a o_O face also.
.........

 

Jaggyd

The member formerly known as skotti-chan
.........



I love Welcome to Tranquility so hard.


Let's add something to the mask squinting mix. How do characters like Colossus move? Or some of Iron Man's earlier armors? Metal doesn't move like that. It's just illogical. It's like characters like Superman/Sentry/Shazam/etc being able to fly faster, or someone like Bruce Wayne literally being awake 24/7. Illogical i tells you!
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
I love Welcome to Tranquility so hard.
Wasn't it just the cat's pajamas?

skotti-chan said:
Let's add something to the mask squinting mix. How do characters like Colossus move? Or some of Iron Man's earlier armors? Metal doesn't move like that. It's just illogical. It's like characters like Superman/Sentry/Shazam/etc being able to fly faster, or someone like Bruce Wayne literally being awake 24/7. Illogical i tells you!
Exactly. In the grand hierarchy of suspension of belief, mask squinting ranks relatively low.

But I don't think it's an issue of real world logic even. It's a wholly stylistic issue. "How do they squint through the mask" isn't even a question that crosses my mind. It's just a means of conveying expression from the artist to the reader.
 

Jaggyd

The member formerly known as skotti-chan
In all seriousness, question to everyone (and more importantly E), what's your opinion of special effects for powers that wouldn't have them. Like the halos psi-talents (Charles, Emma, Jean, Xian, Betsy, et all) get when using their powers?
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
In all seriousness, question to everyone (and more importantly E), what's your opinion of special effects for powers that wouldn't have them. Like the halos psi-talents (Charles, Emma, Jean, Xian, Betsy, et all) get when using their powers?
or Amadeus Cho's floating HUDs?
 
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E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
In all seriousness, question to everyone (and more importantly E), what's your opinion of special effects for powers that wouldn't have them. Like the halos psi-talents (Charles, Emma, Jean, Xian, Betsy, et all) get when using their powers?
I said this in the last thread, but there is a huge difference between mask squinting, which fundamentally changes the character in the context of the story they are in and not just for the reader, and things like halos, or whoosh lines, or other similar artist tools that aren't seen by the characters in the story. I don't have a problem with those.

As far as how Colossus moves - is it not explained as being organic steel? Obviously there is no such thing as organic steel in real life, but it's fine in the context of the story, because that's what it is. This is another thing I said in the first thread: the physics of mask squinting are not the same as the physics of a guy who can jump 50 feet in the air or stick to walls. Those are part of his powers; it's explained by the science of the book. You have to accept it or you can't read the book. BUT - that science does not address how he can make the eyepieces of his mask squint. It's a plain cloth covering over his face. There is nothing special about it, and nothing about it that that allows it to move like that.
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
As far as how Colossus moves - is it not explained as being organic steel? Obviously there is no such thing as organic steel in real life, but it's fine in the context of the story, because that's what it is. This is another thing I said in the first thread: the physics of mask squinting are not the same as the physics of a guy who can jump 50 feet in the air or stick to walls. Those are part of his powers; it's explained by the science of the book. You have to accept it or you can't read the book. BUT - that science does not address how he can make the eyepieces of his mask squint. It's a plain cloth covering over his face. There is nothing special about it, and nothing about it that that allows it to move like that.
Why does it have to make sense in the physics of the story? We're talking a naturally visual medium. Why can't we just recognize it as a stylistic gesture?
 

J. Agamemnon

Well-Known Member
Why does it have to make sense in the physics of the story? We're talking a naturally visual medium. Why can't we just recognize it as a stylistic gesture?
Because there's nothing in the story that says that ****ers' mask can squint!

Personally, I think it's a sign of writer laziness; writing half-hearted dialogue that can't really express the emotions necessary to convey the intended message.
 

Bass

Nexus of the World
I said this in the last thread, but there is a huge difference between mask squinting, which fundamentally changes the character in the context of the story they are in and not just for the reader, and things like halos, or whoosh lines, or other similar artist tools that aren't seen by the characters in the story. I don't have a problem with those.

As far as how Colossus moves - is it not explained as being organic steel? Obviously there is no such thing as organic steel in real life, but it's fine in the context of the story, because that's what it is. This is another thing I said in the first thread: the physics of mask squinting are not the same as the physics of a guy who can jump 50 feet in the air or stick to walls. Those are part of his powers; it's explained by the science of the book. You have to accept it or you can't read the book. BUT - that science does not address how he can make the eyepieces of his mask squint. It's a plain cloth covering over his face. There is nothing special about it, and nothing about it that that allows it to move like that.
This isn't logical.

If a halo, or whoosh-line, is an artistic tool to represent something but isn't physically happening within the reality of the book, why then is mask-squinting not a similar tool? Why is it that if there's a big blue sonar energy field smacking someone in the face, it's considered to be there to show us it looks like sonar, but in 'reality', it's invisible? Why is it that a sound effect is also invisible to the characters in the story and visible only to us? Why is it that mask-squinting, however, is a totally visible, occurring phenomena that the characters can see, and not a stylistic gesture only the audience can see?

Is it because it's the character themselves that is the symbol and not a floating, external icon? If so, then why aren't 'blurred' images equally silly, since of course, the character isn't physically blurred, yet the gesture is the character's body not an external icon?

And this is particularly bizarre in relation to Spider-Man, since he's always had the "split-face" with one half Peter Parker and the other half Spider-Man.

The mask is squinting as much as the psychic blast is pink.
 
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