Metroid General

Zeek

Well-Known Member
Because I love me some Metroid, and always love talking about it.

I'm playing Prime 2 through at the moment, on Hypermode Difficulty, and it's sort of amazing how difficult this game can get without feeling like it's outright unfair about it. I've played it a few times before, but it's been a while since I've tackled it on a harder setting. Good times.

But one other reason I wanted to make this thread was to address wyokid's claims of Metroid: Other M being awesome. I know there are apolo- er, fans out there, and I'm really curious as to why. I find precisely nothing about that game awesome. It was a mediocre game - and awful Metroid game - with a story that character assassinated the protagonist of the series while being both derivative (of Metroid Fusion) and poorly told.

I mean, yes, it's in third person, and if one REALLY hated the Prime games then that might be considered a victory, but surely Metroid means more to fans than a visual perspective.
 
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wyokid

Well-Known Member
My only complaint about Metroid: Other M is the whole "Samus can't use her equipment without a man telling her she can even if it means her coming close to death" thing, but that kind of thing has always been in Metroid only the sexism wasn't there. The gameplay is awesome, the graphics are awesome, and the story is awesome. Not as awesome as the Metroid Prime Trilogy, but what really is?
 

Zeek

Well-Known Member
The gameplay is probably Other M's strongest point, but that's not saying much. Yes, the action looks neat and is occasionally rather viscerally satisfying; now give me actual exploration. Give me a sense of discovery, of achievement. Give me a world that expands radially as I undergo that discovery. Make me long for items clearly out of reach. THAT is Metroid, and I got none of that out of Other M's decidedly linear gameplay experience. Even if you don't judge it as a Metroid game, though, it's still kinda dull; linearity aside, the first-person missile and pixel hunt stuff, the health recharging, and the walking sections really make it a drag to play. And, of course, there's the authorization gimmick. It's not inherently sexist - it's how it's presented in the story that makes it so - but it is inherently ridiculous, especially when Samus deactivates completely passive defensive abilities (like her suits) and items used only for traversal (like the grappling beam).

The graphics are awesome? They look worse than any of the Prime games, the first of which came out 8 years before Other M (which is an eternity in tech time) on an inferior console, though I will admit that part of that's the art direction. And precisely nothing about the story is awesome. It's riddled with plot holes, contrivances, inexplicable melodrama, and a healthy dose of sexism. It's delivered in tedious exposition using a grating monotone that empties Samus of any sympathetic qualities she could have had. Meanwhile, these cutscenes are long and unskippable, so you couldn't even ignore the bad story for the gameplay (like you could in, say, Prime 3). If you want a good dissection of the story, check out this (it's 18 pages long, but the last page sums it all up nicely).

I mean, cool that you liked it, and all, I just get the sense that we may have played completely different games.
 
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Lithium

Well-Known Member
Metroid Prime currently sits at #4 on my favorite games of all time list. The prime series in general (even the DS one) are all some of my most favorite games. I really liked Zero Mission as well. I havent completed Super Metroid yet (I know, I know...) but maybe someday I will.
 

Zeek

Well-Known Member
Metroid Prime IS my favourite game of all time, and I even consider it a more impressive achievement in 2-to-3-D transition than Ocarina of Time. Super Metroid is excellent too, but the sheer immersion provided by Prime gives it the edge. Generally, though, Other M is the only game in the series I actively dislike; it's got a really strong pedigree, and I really hope it can continue with that.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Yes, Other M was disappointing in large part due to the ridiculous approach they took to characterizing Samus and altering her extremely strong female character into a lame pastiche of the stereotypical anime girl. Ugh. The gameplay was fun, except there were some frustrating approaches taken with the Wii-mote...having to turn the controller sideways was a pain in the butt.

The Prime series were all pretty fantastic. Simply put.

Super Metroid is still my all time favorite, though that's probably due to the nostalgia factor (I played that game incessantly throughout middle school), and the ending where Samus gets all suped up by the Baby Metroid and cleans house. But overall that game is fantastic, and still holds up well.

I prefer the remake of the original Metroid (Zero Mission) since it's controls are more responsive and patterned after Super,
 

Zeek

Well-Known Member
The Prime series were all pretty fantastic. Simply put.

I agree with you now, but it wasn't so long ago that I had a general policy of HATING Prime 3. I still feel like it's the weakest in the Prime series, thanks to a bit of a lame story and some underdeveloped gameplay mechanics (everything with the ship), but after finally playing it a second time last year I found myself really enjoying it (past its decidedly un-Metroid opening level). I loved the steampunk Chozo sky city in particular.

Retro making another game in the series would be, like, THE biggest gaming announcement in years for me.

I prefer the remake of the original Metroid (Zero Mission) since it's controls are more responsive and patterned after Super,

Yeah, Zero Mission is great. I know it gets some flak around the internet for being "too easy" (thanks to the Chozo statue map mechanics), but it has such crisp pacing and is so gorgeous to look at that it's hard to care. It was my go-to game for car trips and plane flights in high school, since it could be beaten in about 3 hours. It's really a shame that Super was never released on a portable system, though.

How do you guys feel about the whole first-person aspect of the Prime games? I love them, obviously (they do wonders for immersion and the atmosphere that the series is known for), but I think a good 3D Metroid game could use third-person. Batman: Arkham Asylum and, to a lesser extent, the new Tomb Raider are both great Metroidvania-style games in the more traditional perspective. Is there a particular one you guys would prefer to see the next Metroid game in?
 

Lithium

Well-Known Member
How do you guys feel about the whole first-person aspect of the Prime games? I love them, obviously (they do wonders for immersion and the atmosphere that the series is known for), but I think a good 3D Metroid game could use third-person. Batman: Arkham Asylum and, to a lesser extent, the new Tomb Raider are both great Metroidvania-style games in the more traditional perspective. Is there a particular one you guys would prefer to see the next Metroid game in?

I think it would be hard to pull off a 3rd person metro is while still giving the player the level of immersion of an fps.

I think my favorite thing about the prime series though (especially the first two) was the music. The haunting title screen music of prime 1 will stick with me forever.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
I agree with you now, but it wasn't so long ago that I had a general policy of HATING Prime 3. I still feel like it's the weakest in the Prime series, thanks to a bit of a lame story and some underdeveloped gameplay mechanics (everything with the ship), but after finally playing it a second time last year I found myself really enjoying it (past its decidedly un-Metroid opening level). I loved the steampunk Chozo sky city in particular. Retro making another game in the series would be, like, THE biggest gaming announcement in years for me.

You summed up my feelings perfectly. Did you ever play Metroid Prime - Hunters for the original DS? It was an interesting experiment, but much like Other M suffered from some terrible approaches to the controls. Sorry, but a stylus just doesn't work for Metroid, even if everything else is done right...which it wasn't. There was an aspect of interesting and motivating discovery that the game lacked, which the Prime games and most of the 2D games all had. Course it's been close to ten years since I last played through it so my memory is admittedly rusty.

Yeah, Zero Mission is great. I know it gets some flak around the internet for being "too easy" (thanks to the Chozo statue map mechanics), but it has such crisp pacing and is so gorgeous to look at that it's hard to care. It was my go-to game for car trips and plane flights in high school, since it could be beaten in about 3 hours. It's really a shame that Super was never released on a portable system, though. How do you guys feel about the whole first-person aspect of the Prime games? I love them, obviously (they do wonders for immersion and the atmosphere that the series is known for), but I think a good 3D Metroid game could use third-person. Batman: Arkham Asylum and, to a lesser extent, the new Tomb Raider are both great Metroidvania-style games in the more traditional perspective. Is there a particular one you guys would prefer to see the next Metroid game in?

And yeah, I still enjoy Zero Mission. After Super Metroid and the first Prime game, it's probably my third favorite. Fusion was also quite decent.

As for comparing the first person Prime approach to the 2D side scroller approach of the rest, I personally prefer the 2D side scroller approach. While it's certainly more basic and less immersive, there's an inherent aspect of nostalgia that's retained by taking that approach. Course I've been playing Metroid since the first one on NES, so perhaps I'm just an old dog when it comes to the series.

That said, I'd expect a new Metroid to hopefully take a third person approach, since the first person approach has been done in the Prime series, and the third person will allow more precise and better movement and control. As good as one can be with the Prime controls, I have no doubt they'd be even better with a third person view which allows you to view your Samus' movement and gauge landing from jumps and boss fights better. It'd also better allow the environments to be displayed, and Samus' interaction with those environments. While the Prime games did an amazing job in that regard for FPS, I do believe a third person approach will increase that. It will also make avoiding enemies swarming at you (radar or not) a bit more approachable, while allowing the difficulty level to be increased without the game feeling like its too difficult for beginners.

But yeah, a 2.5D approach would be great too, long as the story is worth it and Samus isn't turned into a clichéd one dimensional Japanese hentai rip off like Other M.

Though I think the best overall approach for the current gen Nintendo Wii U is definitely third person, a la Batman Arkham or the new Tomb Raider, as you mentioned.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
I was so proud of myself when I beat Metroid 2 for the original Game Boy...
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
I was so proud of myself when I beat Metroid 2 for the original Game Boy...

Yes! Got that game for my old Game Boy for Christmas when I was like 10. Spent months exploring the map (which by those days' standards was quite huge), and finally beat it. That was a momentous occasion in my young video gaming life. It's also what made me a Metroid fan for life. While I'd played the original on NES quite a bit, I was never a huge fan of the original (another reason I love Zero Mission so much), but after beating Metroid II (and finding everything in it to 100% completion) and stumbling across a brand new, $10 copy of Super Metroid at a computer show and delving into that, there was no looking back.

It was a long 8 years between 1994 and 2002, when finally we got Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion. A perfect blend of an all new, FPS 3D approach and alternatively the classic 2D side scroller in two different new titles. A perfect offering of classic nostalgia and groundbreaking newness.

Then we got Zero Mission the next year, Prime - Hunters and Prime 2 the year after, and finally Prime 3...and then Other M. :/

Still, really looking forward to a new Metroid.

Never understood why Nintendo has neglected that franchise as much as they have. An 8 year drought and no Metroid for the N64 was a shame, and so far none for the a Wii U is an outright travesty.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
I never played a lot of Metroid games, but I played the Prime trilogy and loved it. I heard mostly bad reviews on Other M, but I wouldn't mind playing it one day myself.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
I never played a lot of Metroid games, but I played the Prime trilogy and loved it. I heard mostly bad reviews on Other M, but I wouldn't mind playing it one day myself.

Other M just had bad characterization and a poorly thought out control scheme...but it's still a decent game. It's just the worst Metroid.

But if you want to start at the beginning, check out Metroid - Zero Mission (remake of the original Metroid with better controls, graphics and expanded story).

The timeline goes like this:

Metroid - Zero Mission
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime - Hunters
Metroid Prime 2 - Echoes
Metroid Prime 3 - Corruption
Metroid II - Return of Samus
Super Metroid
Metroid - Other M
Metroid Fusion

It's a phenomenal series overall. Highly addictive gameplay, and if you're a fan of Zelda or Castlevania these will be right up your alley. Literally, they're all amazing games (except Other M, which is ok, but disappointing compared to the other fantastic games).
 

Zeek

Well-Known Member
I was so proud of myself when I beat Metroid 2 for the original Game Boy...

I never did. I think I got stuck right near the end, in this big black pit. I seem to recall needing to use a visor to see properly? This was like 10 years ago though. The game is on the 3DS e-shop, maybe I'll give it another go soon.

Thinking about that, though, it's kind of cool how many cues the first Prime took from Metroid II, considering it was so over-shadowed by Super at the time. Visors and the Spider-ball add so much to Prime. Especially the latter; my recent trek across Aether has really made me appreciate how well they designed the Spider-ball puzzles in that game. Even if it did lead to one of the most infuriating bosses in the series' history.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
NINTENDO RENEWS TRADEMARK FOR METROID PRIME


Nintendo has registered and renewed the trademark for the brilliant Metroid Prime series. The status date for the trademark was renewed and registered on August 13th, 2013. It’s common practise for companies to renew their trademarks, but it would come as a welcome surprise to many if Retro Studios were planning to develop another game in the Metroid Prime series for the latest Nintendo home console, Wii U.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
NINTENDO RENEWS TRADEMARK FOR METROID PRIME


Nintendo has registered and renewed the trademark for the brilliant Metroid Prime series. The status date for the trademark was renewed and registered on August 13th, 2013. It’s common practise for companies to renew their trademarks, but it would come as a welcome surprise to many if Retro Studios were planning to develop another game in the Metroid Prime series for the latest Nintendo home console, Wii U.

I'm hoping this means something is in the pipe. I'm sure there is, I doubt Nintendo would be THAT obtuse and not have heard the outcry from fans over the past few months of no news regarding a new Metroid title coming to the Wii U. Just like Zelda Windwaker for Wii U, a new Metroid for the system would be a great way to move plenty of new Wii U consoles.

And its been rumored that Retro were going to do another Prime game after finishing their most recent Donkey Kong game, so I'm hopeful.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
SAKAMOTO TALKS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF METROID

Yoshio Sakamoto, the director behind Super Metroid and Metroid: Other M, doesn’t sound like he’s returning to the series anytime soon. Sakamoto says that he wants to create entertainment that’s completely different and that genuinely brings new emotions. Sakamoto is currently the director of Tomodachi Life.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
SAKAMOTO TALKS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF METROID Yoshio Sakamoto, the director behind Super Metroid and Metroid: Other M, doesn’t sound like he’s returning to the series anytime soon. Sakamoto says that he wants to create entertainment that’s completely different and that genuinely brings new emotions. Sakamoto is currently the director of Tomodachi Life.

Damn it! Seriously, what the hell, Nintendo? My all-time favorite game series and it seems I'll be waiting as long as I did between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime (8 years... 8 freakin' years!) for a new Metroid. I'm wondering if they're not just going to ignore the Wii U in terms of a Metroid game (much like N64 didn't get one). There've been rumors that Retro, the studio who made the Prime games, may be working on a new Metroid, but it's only rumors, and even if it's true, it'll likely be at least 2-3 years before it's released as they would've only started working on it late into the development cycle (or completely after) their last game (Donkey Kong SomethingorOther) was released a few month ago. So a 2016/2017 release is the earliest we'll see a new Metroid (unless they're working on a new 2D/2.5D game for 3DS, but I doubt it).

Give me more Samus, Nintendo!
 

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