Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D

Fuzzy Birds

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This is something that has always irked me, but has anyone here noticed the quite different portayals of S.H.I.E.L.D in USM and Ultimates, or in other words, Bendis and Millar?

Take a look at S.H.I.E.L.D in USM, and even in Ultimate Six, and we see a lot of things that are nowhere to be found in the Ultimates. For a start, black suited MIB-esque agents like Woo and Sharon Carter, and in the second GG arc and the recent Hobgoblin arc we see all these high tech flying suits piloted by S.H.I.E.L.D agents branding all manner of laser guns. In fact, in the Hobgoblin arc, they're refferred to as the Hulkbuster unit, something which isn't even mentioned in the Ultimates. How come we don't see these soldiers in action during the Chitauri invasion, or fighting against Thor or something?

I for one don't like the way S.H.I.E.L.D is portrayed in USM. It's far too cheesy with all it's laser guns and shady agents, and seems far too close to 616 S.H.I.E.L.D for my liking.

For me, the definitive version of S.H.I.E.L.D is and always will be from The Ultimates series, from Millars writings.

What do you guys think of this?
 

DIrishB

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Fuzzy Birds said:
This is something that has always irked me, but has anyone here noticed the quite different portayals of S.H.I.E.L.D in USM and Ultimates, or in other words, Bendis and Millar?

Definitly, just an example of different writers offering (somewhat) different viewpoints.

Take a look at S.H.I.E.L.D in USM, and even in Ultimate Six, and we see a lot of things that are nowhere to be found in the Ultimates. For a start, black suited MIB-esque agents like Woo and Sharon Carter, and in the second GG arc and the recent Hobgoblin arc we see all these high tech flying suits piloted by S.H.I.E.L.D agents branding all manner of laser guns. In fact, in the Hobgoblin arc, they're refferred to as the Hulkbuster unit, something which isn't even mentioned in the Ultimates. How come we don't see these soldiers in action during the Chitauri invasion, or fighting against Thor or something?

Good question. I figure we didn't see the Hulkbusters in the Ultimates at all because they probably weren't formed or created until after the first arc, so no showing up during the Chitauri invasion. And I don't know if they'd be much good against a guy (or God) who can control the weather/lightning and probably just zap you with a bolt and shut down your suit. So Fury sent in the super-soldier team who'd be more effective.

Or you could just look at it as two different writers paying little attention to what the other's doing. Least there weren't any continuity screw-ups.

I for one don't like the way S.H.I.E.L.D is portrayed in USM. It's far too cheesy with all it's laser guns and shady agents, and seems far too close to 616 S.H.I.E.L.D for my liking.

I agree, but its something of a nice balance with the way they've been portrayed both in the Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men.

For me, the definitive version of S.H.I.E.L.D is and always will be from The Ultimates series, from Millars writings.

What do you guys think of this?

I agree on all points, just think, like I said, its an example of different writers working with the same material, just putting their own spin on it. Bendis definitly seems to be more hokey in his writing, and Millar a bit more realistic and cynical in his style, so I guess you could look at it like that. I don't necessarly think one negates the other though.
 

Guijllons

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Fuzzy Birds said:
This is something that has always irked me, but has anyone here noticed the quite different portayals of S.H.I.E.L.D in USM and Ultimates, or in other words, Bendis and Millar?

Take a look at S.H.I.E.L.D in USM, and even in Ultimate Six, and we see a lot of things that are nowhere to be found in the Ultimates. For a start, black suited MIB-esque agents like Woo and Sharon Carter, and in the second GG arc and the recent Hobgoblin arc we see all these high tech flying suits piloted by S.H.I.E.L.D agents branding all manner of laser guns. In fact, in the Hobgoblin arc, they're refferred to as the Hulkbuster unit, something which isn't even mentioned in the Ultimates. How come we don't see these soldiers in action during the Chitauri invasion, or fighting against Thor or something?
While I'm loathe to defend Bendis, I do see his reasoning. The Ultimates deals with the team, not necessarily SHIELD, agents carter and Woo are street level operatives, this is Spiderman's domain in the Ulimate Universe, it makes sense that they would appear there and not in the more high profile international events of the main title.

The Rocketmen were part of a new team, the Annual takes place inbetween The Ultimates 2 #6 and #7 (from what I understand), and Fury remarks that Tony gave him the early Iron-man designs to work from, this implies that they are indeed newer constructs. Furthermore, given the sensitivity of having a new team, as explored in the annual, using the Rocketmen to take down. This buggers up continuity a lot if the hulkbuster units were part of this reserve team, but it may be a reasonable assumption, and it may just work out.. ask Dirish :)


I for one don't like the way S.H.I.E.L.D is portrayed in USM. It's far too cheesy with all it's laser guns and shady agents, and seems far too close to 616 S.H.I.E.L.D for my liking.

For me, the definitive version of S.H.I.E.L.D is and always will be from The Ultimates series, from Millars writings.

What do you guys think of this?

I like Agents Carter and Woo, they don't belong in the Ultimates and they should have a place in the UU, and I believe it's perfectly acceptable that such street level agents do exist, I have no problem with them. However, Bendis has not done a very good job in 'keeping it real', it all does feel a little bit more child orientated as a series and his portrayal of these agents has been more towards a child's expectations of how they would be realised.

In short, USM is a far less mature book than the Ultimates and Bendis really needs to grow up.
 

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Guijllons said:
The Ultimates deals with the team, not necessarily SHIELD, agents carter and Woo are street level operatives, this is Spiderman's domain in the Ulimate Universe, it makes sense that they would appear there and not in the more high profile international events of the main title.

Agreed. And I don't have a problem with it at all. Actually I think Bendis writes SHIELD characters really well.
 

Seldes Katne

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S.H.I.E.L.D. seems to have several internal divisions or specialty areas or whatever you want to call them. Carter and Woo seem to specialize in mutant cases, notably cases in which people deliberately change their own DNA. I haven't read anything of the Ultimate Galactus series beyond the Ultimate Nightmare trade, but it sounds as though Carol Danvers might specialize in extraterrestrials and related matters. There may well be a division that specializes in high-tech conventional terrorism threats, another that keeps tabs on bio weapons and research, and so on.

Since Spider-man has dealt mostly with mutants and self-altering science researchers, it makes sense to me that he would see more of Carter and Woo than of anyone else. Also, the Ultimates were meant to be S.H.I.E.L.D.'s "big guns", so to speak. They're sent in to handle the superhuman threats, which still leaves plenty for the average field agent to do.
 

Fuzzy Birds

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I suppose you all make sense, I never really gave much thought to SHIELD being bigger, with all these different divisions.

Oh and Guij, I wasn't talking about the Rocketmen, I was referring to the flying suits used in USM.
 

Tomar

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Guijllons said:
it all does feel a little bit more child orientated as a series and his portrayal of these agents has been more towards a child's expectations of how they would be realised.

In short, USM is a far less mature book than the Ultimates and Bendis really needs to grow up.

Firstly USM is Meant to be less mature, its meant to appeal to a wider range of ages than the ultimates thats the way its written the way it is, Marvel put constraints on Bendis to write for all ages and so he has to show shield in a certain way.
Secondly the Hulk Busters had lasers because the scene with Harry was already dark enough withouth them pumping 20 rounds into a 15 year old kid, there no way the censors would have let that comic away with a T+ rating if theyd done that
Thirdly "Bendis really needs to grow up" ???? Just because USM isnt as dark, gritty or realistic as ultimates dont complain the writer needs to grow up, if you want a dark tale of Goverment agencies read his "Fire" graphic novel read alias for that matter or powers there all excellent.
 

Guijllons

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Fuzzy Birds said:
Oh and Guij, I wasn't talking about the Rocketmen, I was referring to the flying suits used in USM.
I know, I was making a supposition that they were based off the same early plans as the rocketmen. Thus placing them after the Skrull invasion and sensitive to the media and government watchdogs. Whether that applies or not is a different matter.
 

Guijllons

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Tomar said:
Firstly USM is Meant to be less mature, its meant to appeal to a wider range of ages than the ultimates thats the way its written the way it is, Marvel put constraints on Bendis to write for all ages and so he has to show shield in a certain way.
For a wider audience, not less mature, it's absolutely possible to write a realistic and engaging story for all ages.
Thirdly "Bendis really needs to grow up" ???? Just because USM isnt as dark, gritty or realistic as ultimates dont complain the writer needs to grow up, if you want a dark tale of Goverment agencies read his "Fire" graphic novel read alias for that matter or powers there all excellent.
And just because something is adult, and by that, not juvenile, it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be gritty. All the big sci-fi horror films have had R ratings, this doesn't stop them from being movies for kids. One does not equate to the other.
I find Bendis' writing a little naive and kiddy at times, his treatment of some aspects of SHIELD are clearly indicative of that. You don't need to dress a secret agent up in a black suit and glasses for them to be a secret agent. He has a tendency for thematic overkill and cliche.
 

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I like the USM veiw of SHEILD better. like the ultimates in issue 70, they were just there to do thir job, and didnt want to be bothered by civilias. they kind of like to keep to themselves in USM, not so much as in The Ultimates. I also like how USM shows kind of the dark side of SHEILD, a veiw which is also present in New Avengers.
 

Tomar

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I find the tone of USM fits the charatcter, Peter is 15 and the tone suits the way he sees the world, through the eyes of a 15 year old. USM also seems to me more of a superhero comic thats why i like the view of shield in it, is it cliche? yeah i suppose it is but that isnt necessarily a bad thing, i like the black tie and secretive shield, its a good counter to the honesty of spidey, its kinda like shield are in a costume as much as peter with the black ties and matrix style clothes but while peter is the one with the mask and he is the one the public fear, its these guys in "normal" clothes that truly have something to hide. I dont think i would get as much a sense of thsi if they where just wearing normal clothes.
 

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Guijllons said:
You don't need to dress a secret agent up in a black suit and glasses for them to be a secret agent. He has a tendency for thematic overkill and cliche.

That could be Bagley though, not Bendis deciding that. In fact, I'd almost bet it is.
 

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I find this to be an interesting topic to talk about. On one side, you've got SHIELD portrated almost as a villain, the inner-workings seem a little corrupted, and then you've got these evil deeds again, only justified... In a way. I really like where each writer is taking SHIELD, Bendis with the villainy, Millar with the politically corrupt reality of an organization. It plays together well, despite the inconsistancies of how the 'joe' employees look like. If you think about it, the two sides play off of one another well. One is of course from Spider-Man's perspective... A teenager who is genetically altered having decisions made for him... Hmm... Obviously things won't sit well. Then, we've got Nick Fury actually doing his job in the Ultimates with more devestating things. :) That's my two cents.
 

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