Realization about superhero comics

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After having experienced the best that the genre has to offer, i have come to the conclusion that i love a select few superhero comics, not the genre as a whole.
My favorites are usually using superheroes to say something thematically and explore ideas. Like watchmen, astro city or allstar superman.
They make things more interesting by putting the heroes in a tangible historical context free from continuity fat, like dc: the new frontier, watchmen or Marvels.
Often it's more about the big ideas/high concept/cosmic mythology like Jack Kirby on fantastic four and new gods or Grant Morrisons dc work.
Or the crime noir take of a prime Frank Miller.

Some type of justification/take that is innovative is required. A new run on a character just to keep the title ongoing seems creatively bankrupt to me.

Even with longer runs that I like (Kirby/Lee fantastic four, Frank Miller daredevil, Alan Moore swamp thing, Morrison jla and animal man, Walter simonson thor etc) there is a structure/vision from beginning to end.
Anything that is the indefinitely ongoing continuity soap opera of most superhero comics im not going to like.
Also, the heights of my favorites are rarely going to be replicated within the corporate landscape of modern marvel/dc.
That's why im mostly done with superhero comics and will occasionally check in to see if there is a new immortal hulk type of exception

 

[ComicsOdysseyPodcast]

A new run on a character just to keep the title ongoing seems creatively bankrupt to me.

Even with longer runs that I like (Kirby/Lee fantastic four, Frank Miller daredevil, Alan Moore swamp thing, Morrison jla and animal man, Walter simonson thor etc) there is a structure/vision from beginning to end.
Anything that is the indefinitely ongoing continuity soap opera of most superhero comics im not going to like.

This is one of the tricky things with serials especially the cape books. It's meant to be a disposable product. There origin is in newspaper strips and it was supposed to be something you read to pass time on a Sunday and then you moved on.

As they moved into their own books, they were meant to entertain kids. When the market started shifting in the 80s there developed a tension between the literary aspirations of the creators/readers and the commercial demands of the market. Marvel aimed for older kids as a readership and they aged into college kids. The IP had to be sustained to keep the money coming in but the creators and the readers wanted more substance.

We saw what the genre could be but the market put pressure on what the genre had to be. The direct market caused the market to shrink even further due to limited distribution and the product became targeted more and more towards the demographic that was steeped in the genre and less aiming at grabbing new readers.

We see how Manga dominates the field now and part of that success is wider distribution, clear numbering (Volume 1, 2, 3, 4 ect) and stories that end. It appeals to a wider demo while the big 2's demo narrowed to those "super readers" who were heavily invested in the overall lore.

Someone wrote a whole dissertation on this subject: https://scholarscompass.vcu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1316&context=etd

 

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This is one of the tricky things with serials especially the cape books. It's meant to be a disposable product. There origin is in newspaper strips and it was supposed to be something you read to pass time on a Sunday and then you moved on.

As they moved into their own books, they were meant to entertain kids. When the market started shifting in the 80s there developed a tension between the literary aspirations of the creators/readers and the commercial demands of the market. Marvel aimed for older kids as a readership and they aged into college kids. The IP had to be sustained to keep the money coming in but the creators and the readers wanted more substance.

We saw what the genre could be but the market put pressure on what the genre had to be. The direct market caused the market to shrink even further due to limited distribution and the product became targeted more and more towards the demographic that was steeped in the genre and less aiming at grabbing new readers.

We see how Manga dominates the field now and part of that success is wider distribution, clear numbering (Volume 1, 2, 3, 4 ect) and stories that end. It appeals to a wider demo while the big 2's demo narrowed to those "super readers" who were heavily invested in the overall lore.

Someone wrote a whole dissertation on this subject: https://scholarscompass.vcu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1316&context=etd

The unrealized potential is key. Dc: the new frontier almost didn't happen because of editorial. Probably several cases we don't hear about where a masterpiece just got shut down.

 

[stphylcccs]

Anything that is the indefinitely ongoing continuity soap opera of most superhero comics im not going to like.

I completely understand this, endless filler is not a good thing to do from a narrative perspective. Though I feel with franchise that have thousands of characters and numerous ongoing comic runs, the filler is needed. If a character was completely ignored for years, then brought back people would wonder what they were doing. Sure, you can say what they were doing, but the specific demographic (as @ComicsOdysseyPodcast mentioned) usually wants to know exactly what people are doing all the time: sometimes life is just filler.

I understand if that turns you off - it's astounding Marvel/DC even do that much filler when in any other scenario it would be a terrible selling point - I just feel it's the best way you could keep characters relevant without having them become essentially a cameo character.

Of course, this is just my take on why they do it, obviously larger comic entries eg Immortal Hulk are better than the ultimately useless in-between comics, I just enjoy both of them

 

[ComicsOdysseyPodcast]

The unrealized potential is key. Dc: the new frontier almost didn't happen because of editorial. Probably several cases we don't hear about where a masterpiece just got shut down.

What's interesting is that these characters are going to start entering the public domain. We're going to a lot of independent creators do their own stories with these characters.

Mark Millar said he pitched a big Superman story to DC but they turned him away. Why? Beats me, he's the King Midas of comics! So he said he's just going to wait till Supes hits public domain and he'll do his story then. He even said he's going to do a Supes movie!

We're about to enter a really interesting era of comics if you love those old characters.

There are also some people doing bootleg comics featuring those characters.

 

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What's interesting is that these characters are going to start entering the public domain. We're going to a lot of independent creators do their own stories with these characters.

Mark Millar said he pitched a big Superman story to DC but they turned him away. Why? Beats me, he's the King Midas of comics! So he said he's just going to wait till Supes hits public domain and he'll do his story then. He even said he's going to do a Supes movie!

We're about to enter a really interesting era of comics if you love those old characters.

There are also some people doing bootleg comics featuring those characters.

I could see the marvel/dc characters ending up like the public domain archetypes of Sherlock Holmes or Dracula in the far future when their most important villains, supporting cast etc are in public domain.