You should add a poll.
Anyway, my opinion is that hollywood should avoid immediate reboots at all cost. I really don't want this to become a habbit, maybe a decade after the previous movie, but not 2 years later. I don't want to see the same damn origin over and over again.
On Superman specifically, I really don't want to start this debate on whether it was good or not so please lets not argue on that basis again. I feel that Returns was good could use some improvements and was not that bad to require a reboot. You can so easily just revamp it and stay in the same continuity. Down play the kid, its so simple to do and could enhance the overall character. And I can honestly say, as a fan of movies, comic books, and film makking, that no matter how much you didn't like about Returns it's not beyond recovery.
So change the director, change the cast (though I think Routh is perfect), change the style/feel, but don't change the universe. That's just unnecessary and leads us into a very, VERY bad place in film making. Believe me.
I said this once and I'll say it again,
Revamp > Reboot.
And that's all I'm going to say.
SR was one of the worst comic flicks ever. Overlord is correct in his assessment of the mistakes that were made in that movie. The reboot movie doe not need to rehash supermans origin. It could be done in a quick recap during the opening credits (while ignoring SR). Then give him a good villian to fight. I actually think Parasite and Metallo would work well. They could also reboot Lex. Develop him as a character and establish him as a major player.
Superman shouldn't be this hard to do a great movie of.
Yeah, except TIH did overthrow the original origin with a new one. I'm saying you could do that without running over the previous one.So, kinda like what Incredible Hulk did to Hulk?
By not having him involved in the plot, maybe in just a scene or twoAlright, can the mods please add a poll.
How can downplay the kid, its important element from SR and is a milestone around the franchise.
I didn't read the link because I didn't quite feel like it but I think their problem is that they are looking at this from an ongoing comic book point of view. How many movies do you think their going to make in this universe? 3, 4? And that's not including the idea of a World's Finest or a Justice League movie. It really is not impossible to go on with this, or just have him in the background.Mark Waid said it best: I so wanted that movie to work,” said Mark Waid, “but every choice they made in that movie was wrong. If you’re making the movie in a vacuum, and there will be no other Superman movies ever again, go ahead and give him a son. But otherwise, that’s a staggeringly awful idea. What are you going to do next? Either the kid has to be a part of his life, or get superpowers, which no one wants to see. I want to go to them and say, ‘What were you thinking?’
Morrison, Waid and Meltzer all think the series has huge problems at this point:
I think the plot in SR was a pretty smart idea for actual global domination that combines All versions of Lex throughout the decades of interruptions, but lets not debate about that again.Also what about movie Lex, he is a waste, how is he supposed to become an ingenius corporate villain after his insanely stupid scheme in SR? Guys like Metallo and Parasite can't hold a movie by themselves, they are supposed to be Lex's henchmen and this Lex is not smart enough to create them.
You're right, but that says more about Superman's rogue galleries than this film. As I pointed out you can still build Lex up during the second film, and I'd rather see a JL movie than Superman 3Sure they can just use brainiac in the next film, but then what, you have blown your entire creative wad in one story, Superman can't just fight alien invansions from there on out and going to Toyman after that would be a real downgrade.
Just about every problem can be turned to a positive. In fact I think the ideas I've just come up with at the top of my head proves that you can do it. As I said it's not beyond saving and you could really make something great with what we have now.Look I don't like that it seems everyone is in a rush to reboot every movie super hero franchise, but its hard to ignore the problems SR has left with the franchise.
I guess I'm going to say a little moreYeah, except TIH did overthrow the original origin with a new one. I'm saying you could do that without running over the previous one.
By not having him involved in the plot, maybe in just a scene or two.
I didn't read the link because I didn't quite feel like it but I think their problem is that they are looking at this from an ongoing comic book point of view. How many movies do you think their going to make in this universe? 3, 4? And that's not including the idea of a World's Finest or a Justice League movie. It really is not impossible to go on with this, or just have him in the background.
Here I'll come up with something at the top of my head. Richard gets his dream job in Europe or something which causes a riff in their relationship. Now Lois is alone with a kid and Clark helps out which brings them closer together. Basically it would just be three scenes totaling 5 minutes in a 2 hour films where the kid is either secen or just mentioned. One scene where Lois' dilemma is explained, one scene where Clark baby sits (I want to see that cause it's potential for hilarity), and one that has Lois and Clark talking. All other scenes related to their sub plot would not even have to mention the kid. There, in just a few minutes of thought I found a way to continue the universe with a kid in a way that would bring character developments that actually push the characters forward into new territories instead of just redoing what we've already seen..
Here's the biggest problem with a lot of superhero writers is that they think that every character has to be involved in the villain conflict. The girlfriend doesn't have to be in danger every time, The best friend doesn't have to help the hero during a battle. The the co worker (who you have the hots for)'s kid can be just that and still help the plot.
I think the plot in SR was a pretty smart idea for actual global domination that combines All versions of Lex throughout the decades of interruptions, but lets not debate about that again..
In the sequel I would like to have Lex in a small role about his rise to greater power. Remember he was at the fortress and asked Jor-el to tell him everything, starting with crystals. It's not too much of a stretch to think he didn't pick up any other advance science that he could patent and eventually take over a company. In fact a great last shot would be lex saying he's renaming the company he took over to Lex Corp and maybe mention cadmus...
You're right, but that says more about Superman's rogue galleries than this film. As I pointed out you can still build Lex up during the second film, and I'd rather see a JL movie than Superman 3
Just about every problem can be turned to a positive. In fact I think the ideas I've just come up with at the top of my head proves that you can do it. As I said it's not beyond saving and you could really make something great with what we have now.
Whether you liked the movie or not its really not that bad to warrant a reboot.
That's a major plot point! That was the whole point of that movie and now you are just going to bury it? They made superman a father and then they are going to barely touch on it? That's very not good plot wise.
Well it really wouldn't be a U turn for Richard, we can definitely see him feeling disconnected so its not hard to imagine that things can just fall apart between them. I've seen it happen beforeSo richard goes through character U turn to do this, jeeze at least give him a heroic death, that would be more inkeeping with what they saw on screen before.
What about the fact that Lois should know what Supermna is the father (unless she's a total moron, which isn't a strech from what I remember from SR), is that not supposed to addressed (thus reminding us that Superman is a dead beat dad)
And how many movies has he made? Plus I just read their ideas and they are not that great, plus I find it funny right under that article it saysI think Morrison knows more about Superman then you and I, so I don't think you can come up with ideas that are better then his.
Honestly, I'm so unimpressed with All Star Superman and what I've read of Meltzer's writing, that I wouldn't want to see their stuff. As for Waid, he's usually pretty horrible, too, in my opinion -- though I enjoyed the first half of Birthright -- so I'd pass on him, as well.
As I said, turn him into that corporate version. You don't need a reboot to get that. Just do a revampYeah, well a lot of superman fans I spoke with think that version of Lex sucks, if they had gone corporate Lex everyone would have liked him vs. this version of Lex that is only liked by minority, which one would be better?
That undermines Lex completely, he is supposed to be naturally intelligent, here he is some doofus who got lucky and found some tech he couldn't even have put to good use.
Lack of evidence, all he has is circumstance evidence, even though Superman is a powerful witness he could argue that Superman is upset at him getting acquitted, besides he'd be more under the radar during his riseAlso how would Lex get off from the scheme in SR, Kitty would testify against him, so would Lois and the kid and considering Lex is already known as a criminal how would he wiggle out of that one?
Who said we wouldn't see them in a JL or WF movie?So what we can never seen corporate Lex, Metallo, Parasite, Biazzaro, etc at all. Just Brainiac and that's it? What a waste!
Well we'll have to disagree there. I saw my ideas as a way of expanding the character and moving forward with what was established into new and original territory rather than just retreading on the same things we've seen beforeI don't think your ideas are very good at all, so you haven't turned these lemons into lemonade.
I do know many fans, not just superman fans but general fans who would agree with me.I know quite a few of Superman fans who would agree.
Actually it was suppose to get Clark Kent into the picture setting up a romance between those two and getting Clark to have the potential of becoming more of a father figure
And as I said this would not be a major plot, just a subplot to a larger story.
Well it really wouldn't be a U turn for Richard, we can definitely see him feeling disconnected so its not hard to imagine that things can just fall apart between them. I've seen it happen before.
And it's not a stretch to think that Superman lets (give custody) richard and Lois to raise the kid, until current upset in the relationship, and Lois would think that it would be dangerous if the world knew they'd be a target as well as thinking that he's too busy saving the world everyday.
Plus Clark coming into the picture would negate the deead beat dad image.
And how many movies has he made? Plus I just read their ideas and they are not that great, plus I find it funny right under that article it says.
As I said, turn him into that corporate version. You don't need a reboot to get that. Just do a revamp.
He is an extremely intelligent guy working with what he has at his disposal. He is surrounded by Lesser thugs because he had to repay his dept from prison, he has to rely on people like Kitty cause he has no one he can trust, he finds a source of technology that gives himthe means to take over the the entire world, by destroying it and "saving" everyone but showing how to live on the new land mass..
Lack of evidence, all he has is circumstance evidence, even though Superman is a powerful witness he could argue that Superman is upset at him getting acquitted, besides he'd be more under the radar during his rise..
Who said we wouldn't see them in a JL or WF movie?
Well we'll have to disagree there. I saw my ideas as a way of expanding the character and moving forward with what was established into new and original territory rather than just retreading on the same things we've seen before..
I do know many fans, not just superman fans but general fans who would agree with me.
The thing is its not beyond recovery and its just lazy and redundant to default to a reboot.
And I'm done talking about this cause you seem very determined on hating rather than even trying to see the possibilities.
Restart. Restart that ***** right the **** up. Get Singer out. Superman's got one of the best origins around, sure it's a tad overused and you'd probably think they shouldn't focus on it because everyone knows it right?
Well, not really. There's always new kids who will like to hear the story for the first time. There's also the opportunity to go back and turn the Kents into actual characters and not this....well I call them Aunt Mays since they're just old *** people who cannot die and only show up to spout wisdom or plot points.
Superman 1 is a good movie. But it does have flaws. I think the largest is the second half of the movie, it's campy and predictable and...just not good. Lex is a bumbling moron with a stupid plan which is reversed literally by turning back time by flying really fast...only the time turning seems to be haphazard since he didn't go back 10 minutes to punch Lex in the balls and stop his plan, he just did it to save Lois and then the earthquake in general is somehow ended that way.
So. Restart it. Get a good retelling. Work on who Clark is, because I read that link provided up there and Waid doesn't get it. Clark Kent is who the character is. Clark was raised Clark Kent and didn't know a damn thing about aliens and superpowers until later. He is instilled with human values and it's the human in him that makes him become Superman. It's not about loss, it's not that stupid Kill Bill 'this is how he sees us' thing either. Clark's a farmer's son with midwestern values who wants to use his powers for good.
It's really that simple. Superman's the every man. He comes from the soil, moves to the big city and fights injustice for the little man. It's not Batman. Clark is not tragic nor does he have any of the angst that Bruce does. They're very different and yet every time I hear someone talk about what to do with Superman it's to make him more like Bruce. Loss, that the human side is the mask and the superhero is who he really is...
It's not true for Clark. He's too humble to think that a bright suit and cape is who he is, and if he thought that was who he was...he'd be General Zod or any other Kyrptonian villain who comes to Earth smiles at their power and wants to bully around humans.
I agree! I actually think they could reboot it and use Superman for all Seasons as the base for the origin story. It establishes Lex as a corporate villian and more importantly it establishes Clark as a human and build his character well. (I hate to say it also since I hate Loeb with a frothing passion but, SFAS was good) It could also be used to set up the villian for the next movie. I would love to see Parasite or Bizarro. (Brainiac also but I think that would be more of a 3rd film since it could dig up Kandor and Krypton type stuff) I also think that the Superman movie franchise could be used to launch a Legion of Superheros movie. (awesome!!!)
DC's movie franchises could (and SHOULD!!!) be as good or better than Marvels, but for some reason when it comes to turning their products into movies they drop the ball. I want to write the next 3 Superman movies!!
One problem they shouldn't use Lex as the sole villain again in any movies, superman needs a villain he can fight, so Parasite or Metallo shouldn't be the first movie of any reboot, they need more action. That was a big problem in SR.
The second movie should deal with an alien invasion (best choice: brainiac) and then they can do a Justice league series.