Should the Ultimates have remained with the government?

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Should the Ultimates have remained with the government? It seems like there were more story possibilties with the ultimates as governemnt agents (like say fighting ultimate Hydra) and they have lost important supporting cast members (like Nick Fury). The Ultimates fighting hydra would make more sense then fighting Venom.

Heck there are ways they could have introduced some of the other 616 Avengers super villains in the Ultimates black ops universe. Even a D-list villain like Egghead could have worked in that context, revamped as Dr. Elihas Starr, a SHIELD scientist who secretly sells SHIELD's tech specs to the highest bidder, leading to a rise in meta human crime and terrorism.
 

Fuzzy Birds

Well-Known Member
Should Overlord just go and audition for Marvel?

Audition?

Like 'um... hi everyone, I'm here to audition for the role of Joe Quesada'?

But yeah, Ultimates shouldn't have split off for another few volumes at least. Make the build up to the break off one that spans years, with the seeds of distrust and depression growing in the ranks. It would give a lot more weight to inevitable split.

As it stands, it seems like nothing big was made of the split, whereas it should really have been a defining moment.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Should Overlord just go and audition for Marvel?

Bah what's the point, Quesada was willing to put Loeb in charge of the ultimates. We should be thankful he didn't hire a monkey to write the Ultimates. On second thought a monkey would likely do a better job then Loeb. :wink:

Still I think its clear that the Ultimates fighting Hydra is far more interesting then the Ultimates fighting Venom. I wonder how Marvel missed the boat on that one.
 
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Mclintoc

Member
Well, I think that the glory of the Hitch/Millar run was that a split from the govt was built into the plot. Subtly, things had been building in that direction since the beginning.

Loeb's tenure, I think, should have begun with the Ultimates trying to figure out just what independence means. Who/What are they? What do they? Who do they serve? All those tough (realistic) super-hero questions.

Of course, there aren't any answers, so a big bad villain needs to show up and do some damage and then the Ultimates can say, oh, yeah, we clobber the bad guys.

Then someone might replace Fury and brand them terrorists
or the public gets uneasy about these freelancers.
or there is dissent in the group regarding their "long term goals"

I think there is a lot that can be done in this direction, but in my book super heroes are cooler when they aren't working for a govt.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
The Ultimates fighting hydra would make more sense then fighting Venom.

I totally agree, but I was under the impression that they DID fight Hydra (or at least the Ultimate equivalent in Grand Theft America. I thought the little flying dudes with the special suits that ate their bodies away after a month were the regular Hydra soldiers (or, like I said, the Ultimate equivalent).
 

ourchair

Well-Known Member
Bah what's the point, Quesada was willing to put Loeb in charge of the ultimates. We should be thankful he didn't hire a monkey to write the Ultimates. On second thought a monkey would likely do a better job then Loeb. :wink:

Still I think its clear that the Ultimates fighting Hydra is far more interesting then the Ultimates fighting Venom. I wonder how Marvel missed the boat on that one.
I was being facetious, actually.
 

Lynx

Well-Known Member
I don't think the quality of the story has anything to do with the Ultimates breaking off from the government. It has to do with Jeph Loeb writing the story.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
I was being facetious, actually.

I know, I was having some fun with you, notice the answer I gave you wasn't very serious. I can be facetious too, you know.

I totally agree, but I was under the impression that they DID fight Hydra (or at least the Ultimate equivalent in Grand Theft America. I thought the little flying dudes with the special suits that ate their bodies away after a month were the regular Hydra soldiers (or, like I said, the Ultimate equivalent).

Debatable, they could have still introduced a named version of Hydra later on, were they would be the main villains instead of canon fodder.
 
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The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Pffft.

Sure sounded like a serious answer.

So you are a mind reader now? :wink: I didn't say "wow you ya think?" I just used it to have some fun at Loeb's expense, i.e: not serious. I just assumed you were being cheeky again and used for my own purposes. So there. :p
 
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SeAcoW

Well-Known Member
Yeah they should have. I mean there are still super human threats out there... and what laws are the ultimates under now? are they allowed to kill? If they're just civilians it does not make sense ..
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
I think they should, its really what made the group Ultimate. But splitting off seems like a logical step. I would of liked to see more of them as govt agents but with the series being written as more of a movie than an ongoing. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong them going independent. Leob just went completely in the wrong direction. He saw it as them becoming the 616 Avengers. When no, they have their own direction and you have to continue that in the most logical way.

There's nothing wrong with not being with the government, its all Leob's fault for it not working
 

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