Star Wars Episode VII - The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]

How would you rate The Force Awakens?


  • Total voters
    8

Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
8,622
Location
Toronto, ON (Canada)
I just saw it. I'm not finished processing it, but I liked it. I'll post my thoughts later. I want to hear yours.

Discuss away!
 
I can't remember how threads/posts appear in the sidebar, so I'm going to try to be as vague as possible for now:

I love the main new characters - Rey and Finn in particular are fantastic protagonists, Poe is already the coolest pilot ever, Kylo Ren is what Anakin should have been and BB-8 is adorable and awesome all at once. The other new characters - Maz, Snoke, Hux and Phasma - are less impressive, but I assume they will all be expanded upon in the sequels. I thought Phasma was especially disappointing - the marketing made her seem like she was going to be the secondary antagonist, but she was barely in the movie and didn't really do anything besides give up almost immediately. Why wasn't she the Stormtrooper who fought Finn?

Regarding the older characters, Han and Chewbacca were as great as ever and it's nice to see an enthusiastic Harrison Ford again (even if it was obvious what was going to happen to him considering how happy he was to promote the movie). I like the idea of General Leia and while I would have liked to have seen more of Luke, I understand why he wasn't in it much (and that ending gave me goosebumps). I would have liked to have seen R2 a bit more too (and him randomly waking up at the end needed more of an explanation) but it had just the right amount of 3PO.

Plotwise, I don't think it's anything special - it's a Star Wars movie, and I think the reason why it succeeds is because the characters are fantastic and memorable, something the prequels were mostly lacking. I had a few minor issues with the movie (the stuff on the freighter with the two gangs and the alien cargo felt really out of place), but overall it was a fantastic experience to see a legitimately good Star Wars movie on a big screen with an excited audience and it was a great start to the new trilogy. I have no doubt Rian Johnson will deliver the best Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back before Colin Trevorrow probably makes a mess of it all.

And Rey is obviously Luke's daughter, right?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Okay, so I liked it. I really did.

But I WAS disappointed by aspects of it.

Mostly I was disappointed that they didn't explain almost anything about how they got to where they were, not even in the opening crawl. The rebels defeated the Empire, right? So why are we right back where we started? How is there another Empire-like thing with enough resources to construct a star-killer planet? Did the Empire break into two factions after RotJ? Did the two factions make an uneasy peace? Did the New Republic realize that they needed to stand against the First Order, but couldn't afford to do so officially, so they funded the Resistance? That would make sense, but it wasn't really explained. And because it wasn't really explained, this movie just felt like a rehash of A New Hope. Back to square one. That victory thirty years ago apparently meant nothing.

I also hated that Han and Leia weren't together. Their "emotional" scenes together (and apart) sort of rang hollow for me because of that. And the scene between Han and Rylo Ken didn't have as much impact either.

I agree that the whole part on Han and Chewie's freighter with the gangs and the aliens was kind of dumb. It should have been shed for some more narrative exposition.

How did Finn get into a lightsaber duel with a sith and hold his own? Maybe we can excuse Rey, but Finn?

Does the Star Killer planet actually kill stars to power up it's canon? They kind of implied that, but never really addressed it.

And yeah, what the heck was with Phasma? She was barely in it. Although, I suppose they'll use her more later.

Those are my gripes. As for what I liked:
I loved most of the characters. Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ren were awesome. Especially Kylo Ren. He looks like he's going to be a great villain. BB-8 was great, and Poe was a cool pilot.

I'm intrigued to see where this goes next, what happened in the intervening years (maybe they will answer some of my gripes), seeing Luke train Rey, and finding out her past (daughter of Luke? or Han and Leia too?) Seeing where Finn's character goes. And Kylo Ren's training at the hands of Snoke.

The visuals were awesome. The dog fights were fun. The designs on everything were sleek and cool.

Overall, this felt like a set-up movie for the larger story. They introduced a lot of new characters, reintroduced the old characters, set up the conflict, and had a rushed climax that mostly worked even if it was pretty much the same as A New Hope.

Three-and-a-half stars. Rounded up to four because 3.5 isn't an option and because it was SO MUCH better than the prequels.
 
I really enjoyed it. As said, easily the best SW film since Empire, and it achieved everything it aimed to. It brought back the original cast members in smaller supporting roles, introduced truly charismatic and likable new characters in Rey, Finn, and Poe, and Kylo Ren to a degree (I liked Kylo Ren up until he took his mask off and went all emo, but I still liked him overall as a new antagonist). BB-8 is pure joy. Abrams and Arndt did a great job.

It wasn't perfect, but no film is, let alone Star Wars (much as I love the franchise). However, it was fantastic and fun, memorable, and pulled at the heart strings well when it wanted to. And that ending really did give me goosebumps.

Speaking of that ending, Arndt discusses early version of the script and how Luke played a much more prominent part, but he worried that due to Luke's presence he thought it detracted from the new characters, which I can understand from seeing it on paper. But seeing TFA, and how well Ridley and Boyega carried their scenes, even impressively so, I don't think the big guy will do too much overshadowing.

So, pretty much everyone is probably thinking it, but Rey is likely Luke's daughter.

1.) Early on she's shown to be a tech-head and amazing pilot (in the scene where she and Finn take the Millenium Falcon off Jakku), much like both Anakin and Luke were.

2.) Han and Leia both gave her knowing glances a few times (more with Han since he spent more time onscreen with her). It's doubtful she's Leia and Han's kid since they already acknowledged Ben Solo as Kylo. It's possible Rey is Ben's sister, but I doubt it.

3.) The insane strength in the Force that Rey exhibits is definitely a Skywalker trait.

4.) Rey's flashbacks and history of being left on Jakku very well may coincide with Ben Solo's turn to the Dark Side and the rise of the Knights of Ren/destruction of Luke's Jedi Academy. I think Rey is indeed Luke's daughter, and as a child received a fair amount of Jedi training from him (and perhaps a treasure trove of Jedi Holocrons that he might've found after RotJ...?). When Ben Solo turned and destroyed the school, I think Luke wiped her mind to make her forget her identity and family (including himself, her cousin, and her aunt and uncle), her Force powers/training, etc, and took her to Jakku to hide her (much like he was hidden on Tatooine) from Ren. What training she had was likely triggered from Ren's delving into her mind with his powers. I need to see it again and pay attention to him more closely after he takes his helmet off in that interrogation/torture scene between them, to see if he gives any hint of recognition. I seem to remember him being confused, so perhaps he thought Luke's daughter was dead (which would make sense).

5.) The Force is all about balance. During the Prequel Trilogy, the Jedi were the premiere power in the galaxy, the Sith only two: Master and Apprentice (Plagueis and Sidious, Sidious and Maul, Sidious and Dooku, Sidious/Emperor and Vader, and finally Snoke and Ren). There are, however, more Dark Side users, as indicated by the Inquisitors (at least pre-A New Hope), and now the Knights of Ren in TFA period. So, the Force was unbalanced in favor of the Light Side, until Order-66 wiped them almost all out. The Dark Side (embodied by the two Sith, Sidious and Vader) was strengthened not in how many Dark Side Force users there were, but the negativity, anguish, anger, hate, distrust, etc that the Empire bred. That authoritarian, harsh approach was intended by Sidious/The Emperor, as a way to feed the Dark Side without presenting any possible competition (even though the only real competition the Emperor had was Vader, he was a careful and Machiavellian puppet master in most regards). The Force was balanced for a time after the Battle of Endor, and Luke began his Jedi Academy and the Light Side became the stronger element again, necessitating a resurgence in the Dark Side, hence Ben Solo recruiting like-minded individuals, turning on Luke, and forming the Knights of Ren. Now, the Dark Side is once again overpowered, and the Light Side (personified in Rey) again brought some sense of balance to the Force (for the time being).[/spoiler]

This Yin and Yang, back and forth is intrinsic in most religious, historical, mythological aspects of human nature, and also conveniently serves as a never ending internal explanation for repeating the cycle (new movies and endless novels, comics, video games, etc)... I sound so cynical but I love it. It does provide and never ending cycle though for sequels, prequels, interquels, etc.

I fully expect after what Ren did in this film, finally cutting his ties to the Light Side, will result in a much more powerful, and even more intimidating character in the next two films. Many are complaining Ren didn't present enough challenge to Rey and Finn, but the dude had been shot with a Crossbow by an enraged Wookiee, still fought off Finn easily, and finally got worked over by Rey due to her Force power majoojoo.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Didn't need the spoiler tags? Ok. :)

Was just trying to be extra careful. I know it's a thread obviously marked Spoilers, but was just being extra careful.





Anyway, here's the reason R2-D2 "awakened" (see what I did there?) at the end...

I guess it sort of makes sense, if a bit of a cop out. I can forgive it though. The movie is pure joy. It isn't perfect, but it stands with the Original Trilogy, easily, in terms of overall quality, charm, etc.
 
Last edited:
I loved the movie and I'll get more into my thoughts later, but here's how I rank all the films at the moment:


V-IV-VII-VI-III-I-II
 
I would have liked to have seen R2 a bit more too (and him randomly waking up at the end needed more of an explanation)

I didn't like that either but JJ Abrams explained it as BB-8 woke him up saying he has a piece of the map and asking of R2 had the rest of it. he expanded on that as saying R2 just took a while to "wake up" - it's a little awkward but that's what it is.

And Rey is obviously Luke's daughter, right?

I'm 50/50 on this. On one hand it's too obvious and a Jedi would not form the type of relationship that would be required to have children. On the other hand her storyline mirrors Luke's and Kathleen Kennedy has said that the new movies will continue the Skywalker story, so assuming she means it will mostly focus on that story maybe she is (along with her cousin Ben).

The best part of the movie is when the lightsaber flies by Kylo Ren's face into her hands and she ignites it. I had chills. She's such a great character.

And Kylo Ren is a great villain. I loved the bit with him punching himself in his wounds in order to use his pain to strengthen his powers. Imagine Vader doing something like that.

Didn't need the spoiler tags?

You don't need to mark spoilers if it's about the subject in the title of the thread and the title is marked spoilers.
 
I got dragged to this today by a friend. I voted 2 stars (i wanted to go 2.5 but couldn't). Why? Where the hell do I begin.


Kylo Ren - He's a darth vader fanboy that uses a dumb voice (seriously I think i dark knight rises bane finally has been beat on dumb voice) and has the dumbest lightsaber ever. Wow. I normally love the bad guys in star wars but my god this is the worst villain in the 7 movies. Also that backstory he's a worse version of Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo really? he couldn't even be original.

Rey - Way to perfect. I don't want to use the term "Mary sue" as that's thrown around way too much so i'll say "Bland" as she did force feats faster and better than Luke (fair enough he wasn't the best) and Anakin (THE CHOSEN ONE) and she had no flaw. Luke was too headstrong at times or just too naive, Anakin messed up a lot. With Rey, better pilot than Han, Better force than any rookie in the films, Picks up gun and fires better than finn.

Finn - He saved the film IMO as I was worried going in he was just kyle katarn but he wasn't. He was annoying at time when he would swap to cyborg in teen titans go "BOOYA" mode as that's as annoying as "yippee"

Captain Phasma - They made a bigger deal of her in interviews , previews ect... but she did nothing of note. Disappointed as I hoped she'd be as cool as Jango


Story - Episode IV without the heart , memorable quotes or likeable characters .... great. It didn't feel like star wars at all as it had none of the fantasy. Star wars was always fantasy/adventure with scifi backdrop. This was just rushing through scenes to get to next action peice. Like look at when Rey found lightsaber. It was boom boom boom boom through the visions. Look at when Luke was given his. It was a beautiful story told to you by Obi and it hooks you you listen and feel the heart.

Also han solos death was dumb as it felt it was just done to recreate the Obi in a new hope scene and that's a slap in the face of han solo fans more than the "shot first" thing ever was.

The look - The effects looked great my only complaint is Don't like the new stormtropper helmets, Kylo Ren's look at stupid lightsaber. The rest look good.



If i had to rate the film in terms of SW I go V - IV - III - II - VI - VII - I , so not the worst SW movie as phantom menace is worse (though it had better characters overall) but not that good in terms of SW
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I got dragged to this today by a friend.

yoda.jpg
 
If i had to rate the film in terms of SW I go V - IV - III - II - VI - VII - I , so not the worst SW movie as phantom menace is worse (though it had better characters overall) but not that good in terms of SW

You like return of the Jedi less than episodes 2 and 3?

I think my ranking is VI - V - IV - VII - [BIG GAP] - III - I - II

But it's hard to really rank the original three. I love them all. RotJ was the first one I ever saw, which is probably why it's first for me, if I'm honest.

And the prequels are ranked by which are less awful, but they're all awful.
 
V > IV > VI > VII > III > II > I.

I pretty much love the first three equally.
 
Last edited:
You like return of the Jedi less than episodes 2 and 3?

Yeah. Luke/vader/emperor scenes were good. But the rest? Ewoks , Harrison ford acting bored to be there , another death star run and more just made me not like VI. It's cool if others like VI but for me yeah VI was almost as bad as I but is saved by the scenes I mentioned
 
The best way I've heard this described is as "its a competent Star Wars film". It's not great, it's not terrible, but it's there. It's tells it's story well, the characters are likable, but it also plays it incredibly safe and could almost be seen as a reboot. It definitely rehashs enough stuff. Long story short, I should have waited for home release. 7/10

I should also mention the only films of Star Wars I love are Empire and Revenge. A New Hope is too quippy, Phantom and Jedi are too childish, and Attack is a complete train wreck. Don't get me wrong, I really love Star Wars and saw it young enough that I didn't have "I am your father" already spoiled for me, but I don't really have the same love for the original trilogy as everyone else and my favorite part of the prequels is the fresh, but familiar look everything has. You can see how the technology eventually evolved into the OT tech. Which is why with this movie I didn't want the original trilogy which is all we got in this. I groaned a lot during this, like when the Falcon just happened to be on Jakku right near our heroes. The references weren't cute, the Falcon and it's owners were shoehorned in, and the whole thing can be summarized by that scene where they compared the Starkiller base to the Death Star. This was bigger, bloated, and safe rehash of the original trilogy without the heart and charm. They're all likable, but I don't care about any of the new characters. I was hoping Finn died in the forest because that was the most significant thing his character had done for me at that point, Phasma was so pointless that I'm actually laughing at how huge of a push she got, Rey WAS a Mary Sue, Poe felt like a footnote, Kylo Ren seemed to be the only character that had anything going for him and he was ultra whiney and edgy, and I've never cared about Han or even Leia really so to have Luke show up at the VERY end of the film with no lines to end was incredibly obnoxious. The movie LITERALLY ended on a cliff and I don't think anyone in my theater realized that's why I was laughing when the credits rolled.


Also

10. The Clone Wars (movie)
9. Attack of the Clones
8. The Phantom Menace
7. Return of the Jedi
6. A New Hope
5. Rebels
4. The Force Awakens
3. Revenge of the Sith
2. The Clone Wars (show)
1. Empire Strikes Back
 
Last edited:
I'm getting tired of the recycled "Mary Sue" comments regarding Rey.

First, her Force Powers didn't come out of left field like people keep saying. It hasn't been revealed yet, but it's pretty likely she's the daughter of Luke Skywalker. As a Skywalker, she's incredibly powerful in the Force.

It's also INCREDIBLY likely she had a fair amount of training in Jedi/Force abilities as a child, assuming she's Luke's daughter.

I think when Ben Solo/Kylo Ren turned and slaughtered the Jedi training at Luke's academy, Luke spirited Rey away to a remote desert planet (like Tatooine) and wiped her memory of her Force abilities and identity, as a way of hiding her from Ren and the First Order.

Her Skywalker piloting and tech-head/mechanic skills, her direct link to Luke's old lightsaber (and Anakin's before him), the knowing glances Han and Leia gave her, etc.

I'm of the opinion her abilities/powers sort of subconsciously came back to her as a result of Ren's delving into her mind.

Point is the lightsaber and Force skills she had didn't just come out of nowhere or serve to paint her as a "Mary Sue" (the battlecry of angry men everywhere it seems in relation to this movie). She's a Skywalker. Not to oversimplify, but that kind of says it all.

Anakin was the Chosen One and failed. Luke was a partial path to redemption for the Skywalker line, and Rey will serve as a focal point to balance the Force (just as her father and grandfather did in different ways).

I didn't like that either but JJ Abrams explained it as BB-8 woke him up saying he has a piece of the map and asking of R2 had the rest of it. he expanded on that as saying R2 just took a while to "wake up" - it's a little awkward but that's what it is.



I'm 50/50 on this. On one hand it's too obvious and a Jedi would not form the type of relationship that would be required to have children. On the other hand her storyline mirrors Luke's and Kathleen Kennedy has said that the new movies will continue the Skywalker story, so assuming she means it will mostly focus on that story maybe she is (along with her cousin Ben).

While the Jedi of the Old Republic didn't form relationships, I think Luke may either ignore that or just be ignorant about it. He may also decide to change that rule.
 
Last edited:
I'm getting tired of the recycled "Mary Sue" comments regarding Rey.

First, her Force Powers didn't come out of left field like people keep saying. It hasn't been revealed yet, but it's pretty likely she's the daughter of Luke Skywalker. As a Skywalker, she's incredibly powerful in the Force.

It's also INCREDIBLY likely she had a fair amount of training in Jedi/Force abilities as a child, assuming she's Luke's daughter.

This. I can't believe anyone would complain about Rey getting her powers so quickly. They stopped just short of spelling it out for us - she has had Jedi training. The name of the movie is "The Force Awakens" for a reason. It wasn't just using the Jedi mind trick or reading minds - once it came back she knew how to handle her lightsaber.

Speaking of, I loved how the lightsaber duels were handled in this film. They got rid of all of the choreographed dancing that was in the prequels and made it look like 2 people fighting with swords, just like you'd expect. There was no elegance to it.
 
She gets her force powers from her mother and training from her uncle, they're clearly setting up an "I am your mother" scene. It'll be sappy and we'll all cry like babies because it will be Carrie Fisher's multi-award winning, highlight of her career, and the scene we will all remember her by when she dies. It was clear the moment you first saw Rey she had force powers and was still a Mary Sue. She had a lot of skills, had very little flaws besides being untrained, everyone liked her, she beat the bad guy, and held a better fight than Finn did. She was also dragged halfway through the movie until she found the lightsaber which gave her chosen one styled quest. She's a likable character, but she's a Mary Sue.

I didn't really think this film had any good female characters. Phasma was absolutely useless and was literally thrown away, Maz was there for exposition, and Leia was there to give orders and set up Han's death we all knew was coming. Rey was the only who did anything and she had no conflict. I want female characters who have vulnerabilities, things should be difficult for characters, and they should have challenges they have to overcome and skills they have to master.

I thought Finn was pretty pointless. Very little backstory, his character arc of becoming his own individual never had a satisfying conclusion,and he seemed to be a much bigger importance in the trailers. Having said that I totally would have never seen his death coming had he actually died in the forest. That would have actually been a really tragic character arc too, he finds his identity as a force of good and dies defending his friend. Instead he's only taken out like a chump so Rey can come save the day. I know he'll be important later, but he seemed pretty pointless in this. His character was basically getting dragged along wanting to help people. He was reluctant, but kept going any way because he's a good person.

Poe...was completely forgettable. I legitimately don't remember his role in this movie. I know he was their connection to Leia

Han Solo was so clumsily written into the movie. The Falcon just so happened to be on Jakku, and they just so happen to be found by Han and Chewie. I should admit, I've never really cared for Han. I'm growing to like him through the canon, but this didn't help. Kylo Ren being his son had no effect on the plot except we know he's Skywalker. The father son scene lacked so much emotion it wasn't even funny.

Then there's Luke. The whole movie is about Luke. Luke was a great pilot, someone who wanted to do right, someone who embraced his destiny and was a great Jedi, and someone who had to face the dark side within himself. Poe, Finn, Rey, and Kylo. The whole film is centered around who Luke Skywalker is and each character represents a part of that. It's just a shame Luke himself couldn't be more a part of the film.

This felt like JJ Abrams making a Star Wars film. I'm much more excited for Rogue One and episode 8.
 
I'm getting tired of the recycled "Mary Sue" comments regarding Rey.

First, her Force Powers didn't come out of left field like people keep saying. It hasn't been revealed yet, but it's pretty likely she's the daughter of Luke Skywalker. As a Skywalker, she's incredibly powerful in the Force.

It's also INCREDIBLY likely she had a fair amount of training in Jedi/Force abilities as a child, assuming she's Luke's daughter.

I think when Ben Solo/Kylo Ren turned and slaughtered the Jedi training at Luke's academy, Luke spirited Rey away to a remote desert planet (like Tatooine) and wiped her memory of her Force abilities and identity, as a way of hiding her from Ren and the First Order.

Her Skywalker piloting and tech-head/mechanic skills, her direct link to Luke's old lightsaber (and Anakin's before him), the knowing glances Han and Leia gave her, etc.

I'm of the opinion her abilities/powers sort of subconsciously came back to her as a result of Ren's delving into her mind.

Point is the lightsaber and Force skills she had didn't just come out of nowhere or serve to paint her as a "Mary Sue" (the battlecry of angry men everywhere it seems in relation to this movie). She's a Skywalker. Not to oversimplify, but that kind of says it all.

Anakin was the Chosen One and failed. Luke was a partial path to redemption for the Skywalker line, and Rey will serve as a focal point to balance the Force (just as her father and grandfather did in different ways).



While the Jedi of the Old Republic didn't form relationships, I think Luke may either ignore that or just be ignorant about it. He may also decide to change that rule.

I agree with all of this: Rey is basically the Jedi equivalent of Jason Bourne. And I wouldn't be surprised if Max von Sydow was watching over her before his untimely demise (hence his knowledge of Kylo Ren and Leia and possessing part of the map to Luke's whereabouts).

Based on the novelization, I am now more than ever convinced that Snoke is actually Darth Plagueis and that he is the one responsible for the creation of Anakin Skywalker.
 
Last edited:
I'm getting tired of the recycled "Mary Sue" comments regarding Rey.

First, her Force Powers didn't come out of left field like people keep saying. It hasn't been revealed yet, but it's pretty likely she's the daughter of Luke Skywalker. As a Skywalker, she's incredibly powerful in the Force.

It's also INCREDIBLY likely she had a fair amount of training in Jedi/Force abilities as a child, assuming she's Luke's daughter.

I think when Ben Solo/Kylo Ren turned and slaughtered the Jedi training at Luke's academy, Luke spirited Rey away to a remote desert planet (like Tatooine) and wiped her memory of her Force abilities and identity, as a way of hiding her from Ren and the First Order.

Her Skywalker piloting and tech-head/mechanic skills, her direct link to Luke's old lightsaber (and Anakin's before him), the knowing glances Han and Leia gave her, etc.

I'm of the opinion her abilities/powers sort of subconsciously came back to her as a result of Ren's delving into her mind.

Point is the lightsaber and Force skills she had didn't just come out of nowhere or serve to paint her as a "Mary Sue" (the battlecry of angry men everywhere it seems in relation to this movie). She's a Skywalker. Not to oversimplify, but that kind of says it all.

Anakin was the Chosen One and failed. Luke was a partial path to redemption for the Skywalker line, and Rey will serve as a focal point to balance the Force (just as her father and grandfather did in different ways)..


It has nothing to do with "the battlecry of angry men" As that is a really easy and convenient argument "Don't like her you are sexist!" even though some of the same people like myself complained they've erased mara jade BUT as there's more females erased from the EU i guess everyone in support of loosing mara jade or Jaina Solo are just "angry men"


No. it's storytelling 101 , the excuse of "They'll explain it in a sequel" does not cut it. Regardless of gender having a character out pilot Han solo , Tell him things about the Falcon he didnt know , out shoot a wave of military trained guys , then out dual someone who had training all the while having NO flaws is terrible

There is a reason people say superman is too perfect or complain at some batman plans. It because gender does not = character. The fact your argument comes down to "if you dont like her your sexist" and "It's ok they'll explain it" means I suspect you kind of already know it's true. I mean "It's also INCREDIBLY likely she had a fair amount of training in Jedi/Force abilities as a child, assuming she's Luke's daughter." But spent the movie saying jedi + luke are just myths, meaning theres no proof she had training.

as for "She's a skywalker" Oh you mean like anakin who first fight with someone trained (dooku) he lost? Or luke who in movie VI never fought any one and movie V could barly use the force till trained? She is a bad character the same way Superman usually is.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top