State of the Franchise: How are they fairing?

[Ice]

Stealing an idea from Millarworld, how do you think these franchises are doing for the big two? What do you think should happen to make them better if you don't like what's being done currently? Or maybe you want them to tone something down? Explain away!


Marvel:
X-Men
Spider-Man
Ultimate Universe
Avengers


DC:
Batman
Superman
Green Lantern
JLA/JSA/Teen Titans






If there are other franchises that should be up here let me know.

 

[Iceshadow]

Marvel

I personally think that team books are Marvel's weak points right now, except for Guardians of the Galaxy and Agents of Atlas (which are fantastic).

X-Men: I think they're doing well right now, though I haven't read Astonishing.
Spider-Man: Don't read.
UU: Don't read.
Avengers: Have Hank Pym not be the new Wasp.

DC
The only thing I'm reading from DC is Green Lantern which is all kinds of awesome.

 

[Gemini]

X-Men: It's pretty o.k., alot of good stuff (X-Force, Cable, Deadpool, Legacy, Millars Wolverine, and probably Aaron's upcoming ongoing) alot of mediocre stuff (pretty much everything else)

Spider-Man: It's a mess, flashes of good stuff mired by a 3:1 ratio of crap

Ultimate Universe: A swirling hellstorm of garbage that reaks of Jeph Loeb

Avengers: Up in the air, I'm liking NA and DA, haven't read A:TI and MA since the change over, though I do intend to read them

For the most part the rest of Marvels line is doing fantastic though (Nova, Captain America, Thor, Invincible Iron Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider, Moon Knight, War Machine, Punisher, Thunderbolts, Captain Britain and MI13, and what not)

 

[ProjectX2]

Marvel

X-Men
I don't care about the X-Men. Why should I? It's event after event after event, tie in after tie in after tie in and I'm sick of it. Morrison came in and made it all interesting and then either crapped all over it or ignored it. Whedon came on afterwards to try and continue some of that neat stuff but that's it. Ellis's Astonishing is disappointing. Fraction's Uncanny is dull. I don't even bother reading the others. They need to get away from events and tie ins and start telling their own story.

Spider-Man
No interest in this at all. One More Day was terrible and Brand New Day is boring. I don't get it.

Ultimate Universe
This should have ended a long time ago. I can't even get excited for Ultimate Avengers.

Avengers
The Avengers are probably the most popular they've been in years. The only title I'm reading is New Avengers which is alright but I have no interest in the others. There seems to be too many Avengers titles.

I do enjoy the Marvel titles that are different and don't tie into the stupid events - Iron Fist, Thor, Daredevil etc. I also enjoy Brubaker and Millar's stories because they tend to ignore things I don't care about.

DC

Batman
I initially had doubts about the whole Battle for the Cowl thing but the line up they have... it's amazing. So much talent is being put into these comics and I'm very excited. If all goes well this will be the best Batman has ever been.

Superman
Again, I had doubts about New Krypton but I'm enjoying it. The talent they have on the Superman comics is also amazing. The fact they've actually planned this stuff out until 2010 is great and I'm loving the journey they're taking me on.

Green Lantern
I don't think I even have to say anything about this one. Fantastic. The best superhero comic being published today. Blackest Night is going to be one of the best comic events ever.

JLA/JSA/Titans etc.
This is probably DC's weak point. They don't know what to do with the teams. Johns's JSA has been stellar of course but he's leaving in a couple of issues so we'll have to see what happens. I don't know what they're doing with JLA but it doesn't sound very interesting and Robinson's JL seems to keep being ****ed around with. I have no interest in the Titans teams. I tried McKeever's stuff but it didn't have the same pow as Johns's stories and Titans is written by Winick and looks terrible. So basically, if DC can fix their teams and maintain the consistent work they've got going with Superman, Batman, Green Lantern and soon Flash, then they're going to do well.

As you can tell, I'm much more interested in what's going on with DC at the moment. All the creators are being allowed to tell their own stories and there's not a tie in to a crappy never ending event every second issue. Geoff Johns is probably the best superhero writer in the industry at the moment and DC is being smart and letting him write what he wants to write. Marvel on the other hand are letting Bendis and Loeb do this and well... they're no Geoff Johns.

 

[ourchair]

I am offended that Fantastic Four is not included in this appraisal.

 

[E]

to be merged

It's a shame because his Uncanny X-Men is pretty boring compared to all his other stuff.

Do you think it's writing or - and I'm not trying to antagonize anyone here - it's because it's the X-Men. Not many people can do anything with them that hasn't been done 5 billion times before. Whedon was an exception. I mean, even Warren Ellis's Astonishing isn't receiving very high marks from a lot of people.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Do you think it's writing or - and I'm not trying to antagonize anyone here - it's because it's the X-Men. Not many people can do anything with them that hasn't been done 5 billion times before. Whedon was an exception. I mean, even Warren Ellis's Astonishing isn't receiving very high marks from a lot of people.

I think it actually is the X-Men. Fraction is an idea guy - he wants to create new things and utilize them instead of doing the same stuff over and over again. With Iron Man, the imagination is the limit. Unfortunately, with X-Men... a lot of stuff has been done before. The best parts of his run involve the new things he's brought in - Dr. Nemesis and the science team but the rest of his stuff we've all seen before and it's boring.

And Ellis's Astonishing X-Men is one of the most disappointing comics ever. Everyone was so excited for that... and whenever it does come out, no one even cares.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Do you think it's writing or - and I'm not trying to antagonize anyone here - it's because it's the X-Men. Not many people can do anything with them that hasn't been done 5 billion times before. Whedon was an exception. I mean, even Warren Ellis's Astonishing isn't receiving very high marks from a lot of people.

I think it actually is the X-Men. Fraction is an idea guy - he wants to create new things and utilize them instead of doing the same stuff over and over again. With Iron Man, the imagination is the limit. Unfortunately, with X-Men... a lot of stuff has been done before. The best parts of his run involve the new things he's brought in - Dr. Nemesis and the science team but the rest of his stuff we've all seen before and it's boring.

And Ellis's Astonishing X-Men is one of the most disappointing comics ever. Everyone was so excited for that... and whenever it does come out, no one even cares.

I think Proj pretty much hit it on the head while piggybacking on your theory.

I mean really...what can you do with the X-Men now?

Granted, I may enjoy Fraction's Uncanny...but he's not really doing anything that I haven't seen before.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Do you think it's writing or - and I'm not trying to antagonize anyone here - it's because it's the X-Men. Not many people can do anything with them that hasn't been done 5 billion times before. Whedon was an exception. I mean, even Warren Ellis's Astonishing isn't receiving very high marks from a lot of people.

I don't think it's the X-men.

Not anymore than to say something like Spider-Man or Batman.

I've been setting here trying to type some kind of argument. I really suck at this. It's hard to come up with new ideas of the really popular franchises. Ellis' X-men has some new ideas, but it's still bland.

Fractions X-men is bland, I think cause it is slow moving. Nothing has really even happened in how many issues? It's probably building to something. Also writing a single character book compared to a team book is also harder.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

I kind of like Ellis' X-Men.

Fraction's isn't bad, but I've only picked up a couple of issues, because it just doesn't grab me in the way most of Fraction's books do.

E is right. Fraction's X-Men sucks because X-Men sucks.

 

[E]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Not anymore than to say something like Spider-Man or Batman.

I disagree. The status quo on Spider-Man has been drastically changed in the last couple of years, and Batman is in the middle of changing. When was the last big change in X-Men? Probably Giant-Sized X-Men.

I kind of like Ellis' X-Men.

I do too.

Fraction's isn't bad, but I've only picked up a couple of issues, because it just doesn't grab me in the way most of Fraction's books do.

Same here. It reads to me like he is desperately trying to breathe life into X-Men and it's not working because...

E is right. Fraction's X-Men sucks because X-Men sucks.

...that.

Seriously. X-Men embodies everything that is wrong with comics.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Seriously. X-Men embodies everything that is wrong with comics.

I'm not sure I'd go that far, but.... yeah.... I like some X-Men stories, but it's become so soap operatic, so trivial (not recently. It's been that way for a loooong time). I think the problem with X-Men is that it's always just skirted around the issues it's supposed to be about. If someone sat down and tried to tell a story about what would really happen if people around the world (largely youth) just started manifesting powers at random, it could be revolutionary. It would be an epic story with decades of stories worth telling. The implications, on all ends, would be radical and morally gray from any side of the story.

But it's way too late in the life of the X-Men for that to ever happen in Marvel continuity. Now it's just a rotting whale carcass floating out at sea.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

I disagree. The status quo on Spider-Man has been drastically changed in the last couple of years, and Batman is in the middle of changing. When was the last big change in X-Men? Probably Giant-Sized X-Men.

Same here. It reads to me like he is desperately trying to breathe life into X-Men and it's not working because...

...that.

Seriously. X-Men embodies everything that is wrong with comics.

I'm not saying currently than are the same. I mean to say that it's only the X-men is ridiculous.

I'm not saying that the X-men are not currently boring. I'm pretty bored with his run also.

The last big change in X-men? I don't know...House Of M? Morrison's New X-men.

New X-men was so different. It's too bad they butchered it after.

Spider-Man hasn't changed all that much. They reversed all the changes to go back to classic Spider-Man. That sounds backwards.

X-men gets all the flask because was the most popular in the hideous 90's. Seriously it's not any more complex than The Avengers or any other nonsense. They don't do that stuff anymore. The X-men in last decade has been radically different than what came before.

 

[The Overlord]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

I disagree. The status quo on Spider-Man has been drastically changed in the last couple of years, and Batman is in the middle of changing. When was the last big change in X-Men? Probably Giant-Sized X-Men.



I do too.



Same here. It reads to me like he is desperately trying to breathe life into X-Men and it's not working because...



...that.

Seriously. X-Men embodies everything that is wrong with comics.

M-Day is a status quo change, the problem is it renders the X-Men concept pointless, a 198 mutants, that's not a minority, that's a movie cast! An ethnic group has to have more then 198 members to affect things.

You know what could be different and unique, instead of constantly putting the X-men into this mutant ghetto where they never interact with the the rest of Marvel universe and deals with only, new irrelevant, mutant issues, have them interact with the rest of the Marvel Universe. They didn't do much in Civil War or secret Invasion.

Have them fight MODOK or something or better yet have them involved in the Dark Reign story line, having the X-Men fight the Dark avengers is a good first step.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

I disagree. The status quo on Spider-Man has been drastically changed in the last couple of years, and Batman is in the middle of changing. When was the last big change in X-Men? Probably Giant-Sized X-Men.



I do too.



Same here. It reads to me like he is desperately trying to breathe life into X-Men and it's not working because...



...that.

Seriously. X-Men embodies everything that is wrong with comics.

omgclosetracist!

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

M-Day is a status quo change, the problem is it renders the X-Men concept pointless, a 198 mutants, that's not a minority, that's a movie cast! An ethnic group has to have more then 198 members to affect things.

You know what could be different and unique, instead of constantly putting the X-men into this mutant ghetto where they never interact with the the rest of Marvel universe and deals with only, new irrelevant, mutant issues, have them interact with the rest of the Marvel Universe. They didn't do much in Civil War or secret Invasion.

Have them fight MODOK or something or better yet have them involved in the Dark Reign story line, having the X-Men fight the Dark avengers is a good first step.

Gross.

Sorry dude, but that's the exact opposite of what they need to do.

X-Men needs to get back to the root values of the franchise. It shouldn't be superheroes. It should be its own little niche.

 

[Gemini]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Where's Ice when you need him?

The X-Men stink, because everyone has too many preconceived notions of what should be happen. Each character has been overdefined. This is why every story feels so redundant, and why the line has become so dependant on constant status quo shake-ups, the shake-ups work for awhile, but they always peter-out because they aren't ambitious enough.

M-Day was a great idea, but they didn't stick to there guns, now it's like what was the point? Any character that wasn't explicitly stated to have lost there powers can be assumed to have never lost them in the first place, and anyone who did has been replaced with new characters that had always had their powers and never lost them.

The move to San Francisco was a great idea, but they didn't really change anything they just transplanted the entire concept, leaving everything else in tact.

The only things X-centric that really seem to be flourishing are the books that are way left of centre, with their own hooks; X-Factor, X-Force, Cable, Legacy. While the more traditional soap-operatic, X-books, are floundering; Uncanny, and Young X-Men. These books are so stuck in their ruts, because the readers expect these books to follow the tropes set in stone by the Claremontian era.

And at this point, I usually find myself becoming redundant myself because I have a bad habit of arguing in circle's so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[The Overlord]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

Gross.

Sorry dude, but that's the exact opposite of what they need to do.

X-Men needs to get back to the root values of the franchise. It shouldn't be superheroes. It should be its own little niche.

But the niche become so tired and after M-day its become irrelevant.

 

[Gemini]

Re: Invincible Iron Man discussion (Spoilers!)

But the niche become so tired and after M-day its become irrelevant.

Not really, in fact I'd argue they've become more relevant. They are an endangered species fighting tooth and nail to survive, clinging to a shred of hope that things will get better. It's just that the stories being told aren't capitalizing on the new angle. They've basically took the original X-Men concept and turned it on it's ear, where once they were a blossoming new species fighting for mere acceptance, now they are a withering blip on the evolutionary scale fighting to merely survive.

 

[Ice]

To say Uncanny X-Men (or any X-book) sucks right now just because "it's X-Men" is ludicrous and ignorant, I'm sorry to say. And I'm not saying this as an X-Men fan, but as a comic fan in general.

It's understandable to not like X-Men because of convoluted history or whatever other reason you might have. And it's also understandable saying that nothing 'major' has happened to them in a long time. But you can't really just blame something being boring just because "they are." Anyone can say that about any book, and that's quite an unfair judgement. If you're going to say that the status quo of Spider-Man has been changed back, then so have the X-Men's. They had it changed back before Spider-Man did. Of course, it's not being done as well as it is for Spider-Man, but that's a different story.

Now, I will admit that the X-world right now isn't doing very well. I've talked this over with others on MSN before. But it's not because "it's just X-Men."



*Uncanny right now is fine, but yes, it's not one of Fraction's strongest works at the moment. He has good ideas, but they're not at a level that really hypes up anything for the X-Men.

*X-Men Legacy is probably the best right now, though yes, nothing "new" either. But it's great exploring Xavier's past and its connections now.

*Astonishing X-Men is a huge letdown. Terrible coloring that brings the art down lots of notches, issues that seem to come out whenever the season changes, slow moving story where you forget what happened in the issue prior because the issues are released months apart...


And seriously, E? X-Men embodies everything that is wrong with comics? You couldn't be further away from the truth. I'd like you to really explain that fully as to how X-Men = everything that is wrong. Because I bet you that whatever you'd say can be said about any other book, meaning that if it's true for them too, then that means the other books are what's wrong with comics.

What's wrong with comics is what happened in the 90s. Hologram covers, variants galore and what-have-you. But stories or franchises that don't suit your liking? Come on.

Not really, in fact I'd argue they've become more relevant. They are an endangered species fighting tooth and nail to survive, clinging to a shred of hope that things will get better. It's just that the stories being told aren't capitalizing on the new angle. They've basically took the original X-Men concept and turned it on it's ear, where once they were a blossoming new species fighting for mere acceptance, now they are a withering blip on the evolutionary scale fighting to merely survive.

Good way to put it.