Spider-Man The Essence of Spider-Man
- Thread starter Lxstanto
- Start date
SSJmole
Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
He's like a man that has like spider powers.
but seriously What ingredients would you want to make the definitive Spider-Man title/comic?
for me Venom.
but I want spider-man MASKED , I want him to have one liners (damn you manically depressed spider-man in the movies) , He also has to have something big going on personal life wise. besides venom (that's just for me) the rest are MUST HAVE
but seriously What ingredients would you want to make the definitive Spider-Man title/comic?
for me Venom.
but I want spider-man MASKED , I want him to have one liners (damn you manically depressed spider-man in the movies) , He also has to have something big going on personal life wise. besides venom (that's just for me) the rest are MUST HAVE
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Welcome, Lxstanto.
Off the top of my head, I'd say Ultimate Spider-Man was pretty good at that for the first few trades, and I say this as someone who doesn't exactly think it's all THAT great a piece of work.
However, I don't hate it in the way that most people seem to hate it (or sometimes, retroactively find fault with it) after they've read other poorly-received works of Brian Michael Bendis.
Still, we're talking 'definitive' here, and in my opinion, as someone who was a Spider-Man fan as a child, I'd say that this is the best Spider-Man book you can buy right now. Regardless of how excellent Straczynski and his contemporaries are in the main 616 books like ASM may be, their enjoyment is predicated mostly on having some amount of familiarity or at least, a willingness to wade through some of the recent continuity.
For me, Ultimate Spider-Man is an enjoyable Saturday morning cartoon rendition of the character, without diluting what made him enjoyable to both kids and adults in the first place.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
hm. Here's my view of the essential Spider-Man book.
Instead of Peter Parker, the main character would be called Chastity Bloodmoon, a voluptuous 9,000 year old vampire lesbian on a never-ending crusade to destroy the nazi aliens who colonized the planet millions of years ago.
Venom would be a super-hot cybernetic lycanthrope from the year 7079 who works as the personal assassin for the nazi aliens.
They'd kiss, a lot.
Instead of Peter Parker, the main character would be called Chastity Bloodmoon, a voluptuous 9,000 year old vampire lesbian on a never-ending crusade to destroy the nazi aliens who colonized the planet millions of years ago.
Venom would be a super-hot cybernetic lycanthrope from the year 7079 who works as the personal assassin for the nazi aliens.
They'd kiss, a lot.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Spider-Man is the everyman... Which is why he needs to be mistrusted by most of the city, excluding those who see themselves in him.
He needs to believe with all his might that with great power comes great responsibility. He knows down deep that this above all things is true, in every aspect of life.
He needs to have a sense of humor, and he needs to crack jokes as his only method of dealing with the fear he has of the work he needs to do. The jokes keep him sane, and are a crucil method of defeating his enemies. he could let himself be paralyzed with fear face to face with a mass-murdering billionaire who killed his first true love, or he could make fun of the silly mask he wears until he gets the chance to beat the **** out of him.
He needs to have a best friend who is torn between his role of being peter's best friend, and turning to the darkness within him... Basically filling the role of the man on the edge, who needs to make the decision between facing responsibility and becoming a good person, or letting himself fall apart through selfish emotions. (that is why Harry shouldn't have died in 616, or Gwen in the UU)
Peter needs friends and rolemodels... HUMAN friends and rolemodels.
I think he needs to be around the Daily Bugle, but mostly because J. Jonah Jameson -is- a father figure to peter, as is Robbie Robertson. JJJ is the father who will never be able to show his respect for peter in any open way, but deep down he feels it. Robbie is the balance, the part of JJJ that makes him human. Dr. Curt Connors was almost at that point of being a father figure in the UU which is why I was disapointed when the character was tossed aside unceremoniously in the Carnage arc. This is also why I liked Ezekiel before they turned him into a selfish bastard. Norman Osborn needs to see himself in this position, he wants Peter to be his son, but in the end he is a corrupt, evil mirror image of Peter's father. The people who fill this role (or want to fill this role) are crucial and necessary to Peter. This is why Uncle Ben is symbolically important.
People would argue for Aunt May, but shes only there to remind Peter of Ben, and frankly I find she holds him back as a character.
I happen to agree that him being married closes off a lot of things, were I to reboot I'd definitely have MJ show up as an on-again, off-again romance with the beautiful actress... but MJ would fly off to Hollywood for months at a time and Peter would never really be able to have him to himself. Remember, he's the everyman! The everyman doesn't get the glamorous movie-star in the end, his entire relationship with her would be repeated flings.
All of us have great power, and thus all of us have great responsibility. THAT is what this comic is about. THAT is why Peter's supporting cast is necessary. THAT is why Peter Parker is one of the most important comic book creations ever made. Its not who Peter Parker is, its what he means.
He needs to believe with all his might that with great power comes great responsibility. He knows down deep that this above all things is true, in every aspect of life.
He needs to have a sense of humor, and he needs to crack jokes as his only method of dealing with the fear he has of the work he needs to do. The jokes keep him sane, and are a crucil method of defeating his enemies. he could let himself be paralyzed with fear face to face with a mass-murdering billionaire who killed his first true love, or he could make fun of the silly mask he wears until he gets the chance to beat the **** out of him.
He needs to have a best friend who is torn between his role of being peter's best friend, and turning to the darkness within him... Basically filling the role of the man on the edge, who needs to make the decision between facing responsibility and becoming a good person, or letting himself fall apart through selfish emotions. (that is why Harry shouldn't have died in 616, or Gwen in the UU)
Peter needs friends and rolemodels... HUMAN friends and rolemodels.
I think he needs to be around the Daily Bugle, but mostly because J. Jonah Jameson -is- a father figure to peter, as is Robbie Robertson. JJJ is the father who will never be able to show his respect for peter in any open way, but deep down he feels it. Robbie is the balance, the part of JJJ that makes him human. Dr. Curt Connors was almost at that point of being a father figure in the UU which is why I was disapointed when the character was tossed aside unceremoniously in the Carnage arc. This is also why I liked Ezekiel before they turned him into a selfish bastard. Norman Osborn needs to see himself in this position, he wants Peter to be his son, but in the end he is a corrupt, evil mirror image of Peter's father. The people who fill this role (or want to fill this role) are crucial and necessary to Peter. This is why Uncle Ben is symbolically important.
People would argue for Aunt May, but shes only there to remind Peter of Ben, and frankly I find she holds him back as a character.
I happen to agree that him being married closes off a lot of things, were I to reboot I'd definitely have MJ show up as an on-again, off-again romance with the beautiful actress... but MJ would fly off to Hollywood for months at a time and Peter would never really be able to have him to himself. Remember, he's the everyman! The everyman doesn't get the glamorous movie-star in the end, his entire relationship with her would be repeated flings.
All of us have great power, and thus all of us have great responsibility. THAT is what this comic is about. THAT is why Peter's supporting cast is necessary. THAT is why Peter Parker is one of the most important comic book creations ever made. Its not who Peter Parker is, its what he means.
Gideon Stargrave
Well-Known Member
You're totally wrong. Spider-man needs to be an unmasked guy with totemic powers who has a dead wife. That's the only way to write him.
Foolsfolly
Well-Known Member
And with that post, you have proven why you deserve to write Ultimate Spider-Man more than Bendis ever did or will.
That’s kind of why I made this thread. I know people don’t want to see characters getting rebooted, but I don’t want him to evolve away from what the character/comic was about in the first place either. How much can happen in one person’s life?
I am also angry that I didn’t get the Ultimate Spider-Man. To me, ultimate implies best of, and it certainly is not the best of. I am enjoying Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane much more than this or the core titles.
In an ideal world, they would reboot the Ultimate line, but do it right this time.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
ultimatedjf
Well-Known Member
Same!
ShaggyMarco
Well-Known Member
The Essence of Spider-man:
1. Spider-powers
2. Guilt
3. Frantically balancing his Spider-man life and his Peter Parker life
Anything past those three elements is gravy. So long as he's a super-hero because he feels guilty for not using his powers at some point, and he has real-life problems stemming from his secret life, he's Spider-man.
1. Spider-powers
2. Guilt
3. Frantically balancing his Spider-man life and his Peter Parker life
Anything past those three elements is gravy. So long as he's a super-hero because he feels guilty for not using his powers at some point, and he has real-life problems stemming from his secret life, he's Spider-man.
Gideon Stargrave
Well-Known Member
In order to try and keep any sense of masculinity that I was desperately clinging onto, I am going to deny that I read Spider-Man loves Mary Jane.
(but yeah, I do enjoy it more than any of the other 40 books that he appears in every month.)
Well, I don't really care it's actually -gasp- fun to read.
Personally, I'd love to see a (redo ultimate title I guess) Freaks and Geeks meets Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends with the fun of Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane.
The idea in my head just seems appealing, but we all want different things out of a title.
moonmaster
Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
I think Spider-Man needs to be about Spider-Man. Almost something like Punisher MAX. Spider-Man shouldn't interact much with the rest of the Marvel U. in his own titles. I was reading a thing about "One More Day" today and it sounded interesting until Quesada started listing all the big superheroes who were going to be major players in the story. I'm sick of it. I want Spider-Man, I want Peter Parker, I want MJ and Aunt May and all the villains. I want a human drama about an average guy who lives in New York and just happens to be a super hero. I've always said that that's how I'd write Spider-Man if I ever got the chance.
ultimatedjf
Well-Known Member
Don't forget his supporting cast; Flash, Betty, Deb Whitman and the Midtown High players are all being used exceptionally well in the better-than-it-was-before Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. It's past two story arcs are almost as good as Peter David's current work on X-Factor. Almost.
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
WORD. Also, it seems to me like every time Spider-Man teams up with someone, he ends up coming off as the goofy, incompetent amateur and has to get his *** saved. It's pathetic and doesn't make any sense. This is another problem shared by 616 Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man.
ultimatedjf
Well-Known Member
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
Probably because both are usually written by Mr. Brian Michael Bendis.
Hey, kids! Sing it with me if you know the words:
God damn it Bendis!
Issued
Well-Known Member
For me ;
Spider-Man is a lot more Peter Parker than Spider-Man. Spider-Man is just a mask Peter Parker hides behind the mask,the costume to draw a line between his life as a superhero and his life as a simple man.
I loved USM because at the very first issues it felt real.It felt like the spider-man I wanted to see.A nerdy kid who has always been bullied gets superpowers (this is where characters like Flash and Kong enters our lives).
That nerdy kid will want to prove himself with his superpowers and will be smart enough to keep his identity secret so that he won't be nagged when he returns home (hmm... fighting a super strong wrestler with a crappy costume sounds nice to me)
What I also loved with USM was Aunt May,she is a troubled woman who has economic problems,she loses everyone close to her so she loses her mind,so she actually gets "MAD" at Peter when he does something wrong,something dangerous,something she doesn't approve.Something Peter Parker needs (even the clone saga wasn't enough to ruin her character, she is still that troubled woman I love to see)
Peter Parker needs MAry Jane Watson, everything about his life should be somehow related to her.She is the reason that I loved Starcynzki's run on Amazing Spider-Man, he wrote their relationship perfectly.I don't think I can ever forget the scene that they enter each other's apartments and think the very same words at the very same time.
They should love each other but problems should always occur.And they should generally be because of Spider-Man!
And that was the first thing wrong with Ultimate Spider-Man.MJ was allowed to learn Peter is Spider-Man in #13! As a fan I always wanted to see dialogues like
-Hi MJ, I can't make it to the movie tonight because JJ gave me a lot work to be done
-Peter are you leaving me alone again?
-...
Phone shuts down and Spidey starts chasing Scorpion.
Peter needs the Stacy family. Only but only to remember why he started being spider-man! Their death should be such an impact that the 15 year old kiddo will suddenly start acting like he is 30!!!
The rest is on the way
(awww I think I have a good idea to write a new spider-man story!)
By the way, I loved Dr. Strangefate's comment on the topic. He couldn't be more right.
Spider-Man is a lot more Peter Parker than Spider-Man. Spider-Man is just a mask Peter Parker hides behind the mask,the costume to draw a line between his life as a superhero and his life as a simple man.
I loved USM because at the very first issues it felt real.It felt like the spider-man I wanted to see.A nerdy kid who has always been bullied gets superpowers (this is where characters like Flash and Kong enters our lives).
That nerdy kid will want to prove himself with his superpowers and will be smart enough to keep his identity secret so that he won't be nagged when he returns home (hmm... fighting a super strong wrestler with a crappy costume sounds nice to me)
What I also loved with USM was Aunt May,she is a troubled woman who has economic problems,she loses everyone close to her so she loses her mind,so she actually gets "MAD" at Peter when he does something wrong,something dangerous,something she doesn't approve.Something Peter Parker needs (even the clone saga wasn't enough to ruin her character, she is still that troubled woman I love to see)
Peter Parker needs MAry Jane Watson, everything about his life should be somehow related to her.She is the reason that I loved Starcynzki's run on Amazing Spider-Man, he wrote their relationship perfectly.I don't think I can ever forget the scene that they enter each other's apartments and think the very same words at the very same time.
They should love each other but problems should always occur.And they should generally be because of Spider-Man!
And that was the first thing wrong with Ultimate Spider-Man.MJ was allowed to learn Peter is Spider-Man in #13! As a fan I always wanted to see dialogues like
-Hi MJ, I can't make it to the movie tonight because JJ gave me a lot work to be done
-Peter are you leaving me alone again?
-...
Phone shuts down and Spidey starts chasing Scorpion.
Peter needs the Stacy family. Only but only to remember why he started being spider-man! Their death should be such an impact that the 15 year old kiddo will suddenly start acting like he is 30!!!
The rest is on the way
(awww I think I have a good idea to write a new spider-man story!)
By the way, I loved Dr. Strangefate's comment on the topic. He couldn't be more right.
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
Recently, I was reading the manga Naruto. In this comic, there are two main characters, Naruto and Sasuke. A spoilerriffic summary of them is that Naruto is hyperactive and frequently acts like he was dropped on his head as a child because he wants attention because he's possessed by a demon so the entire village treats him like an outcast. Sasuke's entire family was killed by his elder brother and he becomes obsessed with revenge.
At the beginning of the series, Sasuke can whoop Naruto at everything. He's a better, stronger, smarter fighter. He always gets the girl (even though he doesn't want her, and for good reason). But Naruto is still the hero of the story (even though his own creator favors Sasuke for some reason). One of the reasons Naruto is a hero and Sasuke isn't (other than Sasuke is a psychopath) is that Naruto doesn't just fight on his own... he inspires goodness in others. Something about him causes other people to want to be stronger and stand up for themselves. Several other psychopathic characters found their good side when Naruto beat the hell out of them and lectured them a bit. Naruto's boundless optimism and perseverence make others better, and the effects of that go beyond what Naruto could do himself.
What does this have to do with Spider-Man? Well, I think Ultimate Spidey is Sasuke and 616 Spidey is Naruto.
616 Spidey has become a hero like Naruto. At first, he was the young guy, the newbie, the outcast. But overtime, he improved. He became a role model. People look up to him.
Not so with Ultimate Spider-Man.
Has anyone else gotten this impression?
At the beginning of the series, Sasuke can whoop Naruto at everything. He's a better, stronger, smarter fighter. He always gets the girl (even though he doesn't want her, and for good reason). But Naruto is still the hero of the story (even though his own creator favors Sasuke for some reason). One of the reasons Naruto is a hero and Sasuke isn't (other than Sasuke is a psychopath) is that Naruto doesn't just fight on his own... he inspires goodness in others. Something about him causes other people to want to be stronger and stand up for themselves. Several other psychopathic characters found their good side when Naruto beat the hell out of them and lectured them a bit. Naruto's boundless optimism and perseverence make others better, and the effects of that go beyond what Naruto could do himself.
What does this have to do with Spider-Man? Well, I think Ultimate Spidey is Sasuke and 616 Spidey is Naruto.
616 Spidey has become a hero like Naruto. At first, he was the young guy, the newbie, the outcast. But overtime, he improved. He became a role model. People look up to him.
Not so with Ultimate Spider-Man.
Has anyone else gotten this impression?
Ah, haven't posted in my own thread in a while....
Anyway, yes I would agree with you, although we haven't yet seen Ultimate Peter go through 40+ years of comics yet either. (Although, Peter was in college by 105 right?) But, by the way things are looking, he isn't going to grow up as a character in the Ultimate universe any time soon either.
Anyway, yes I would agree with you, although we haven't yet seen Ultimate Peter go through 40+ years of comics yet either. (Although, Peter was in college by 105 right?) But, by the way things are looking, he isn't going to grow up as a character in the Ultimate universe any time soon either.
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