Megatron
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so this story is Marvel USA Cliff that wants to save all the Cliffs in the multiverse?
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so this story is Marvel USA Cliff that wants to save all the Cliffs in the multiverse?
Well, this comic and the toy was created in conjunction eith Yolopark, which has the Transformers license, and Botcon, which once had the Transformers license and BotCon fiction was where the universal stream numbers came from.
According to the writer, he choose to set it in the Bayverse comic universe instead of the actual Bumblebee universe because he didn't want to mess with the universe of an ongoing fiction.
I personally see this as canon to the Bayverse comic universe, which I see as separate from the Bumblebee movie universe. Alsox the 1987 thing comes from the creator (you can see the year and what I talked about above in the TFWiki link I sent).
The word ballons are all messed up. I suppose the comic may have been completely produced by Yolopark, which is an action figure company at the core from what I know and not a comic publisher. I guess they just didn't have enough experience editing a comic.
Apparently, the backstory is that the character is not an actual Cliffjumper but a Decepticon named Ladybug. She is from a universe where Cliffjumpers are mass-produced bots, and people referred to her as a Cliffjumper as well instead of Ladybug due to her resemblance to them. Eventually, she embraced that identity and wanted to become the number one Cliffjumper in existence.
Megatron
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also this comic must be set pre-shroud.
Pro Bot
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"Tyran 207.28 Gamma is the IDW Movieverse comics, also first mentioned in The Complete AllSpark Almanac. Pete was very careful about not touching the Bumblebee movie proper, so in this case it is a different reality than the one that actually featured the death in question of this Cliffjumper that Lady Cliffjumper is preventing."
That's all that's mentioned here. I mean, they used the designations for the other realities and those have to be seen as branches, so I don't really think it interrupts Bumblebee. It's very clearly using Bumblebee in the same context that the other timelines are in that it's what happened prior to the timeline alterations.
That's all that's mentioned here. I mean, they used the designations for the other realities and those have to be seen as branches, so I don't really think it interrupts Bumblebee. It's very clearly using Bumblebee in the same context that the other timelines are in that it's what happened prior to the timeline alterations.
If you see the comics and the movies as one timeline, then I can understand seeing it as a branch.
IMO, BB movies and the Bayverse comics are a different continuity.
Also, remember that the BB movie CJ died in 1987, but the Bayverse comics had him alive in 2007. So, from that point of view, this new CJ comic would fit better with the OG Bayverse comics.
Pro Bot
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Dropkick is killed in this comic and he's alive in the Bayverse comics too, so it doesn't work either way. You have to accept that offscreen events happened to allow characters to be alive later on regardless of if this is a branch or the main timeline.
I figure that taking the comic at face value in that it shows the exact events from Bumblebee makes the most sense.
Megatron
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are we forgetting that Barricade just respawned?
Pro Bot
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Cybertronians are getting revived all the time. I know it's not a very great explanation, "oh they just got better", but it's a pretty regular occurrence in Transformers.
Megatron
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Ik the Hasbroverse even had the CR Chambers, what I said was to support you actually, rather than disclosing what you said.
Yeah but we didn't see Barricade really die in DOTM, (if you are talking about the 2007 comic adaptation, that is not canon), while Cliffjumper was cut in half, which seems like a more final death. Sometimes, in the movies, Transformers can survive as a head but even CJ's brain is in two pieces now.
It may not be the same exact Dropkick and instead could be a name reuse (as the 2007 version is not an established character and connections between the two are largely tenious) but Cliffjumper should to be the same guy (as he is a classic established character, and they even went out of their way to make him resemble Bumblebee in both 2007 and the BB movie.
In the end, if one tries hard enough, they could explain any inconsistencies but looking at it at face value, the BB movies and the older comics have yet to establish any continuity between each other. The closest is the Bumblebee movie prequel comic, but that was a prequel to an earlier version of the film.
Pro Bot
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I will mention that the Bumblebee prequel comic does establish a continuity between The Last Knight and the comics, though.
Bumblebee also establishes a continuity with the Bay films, which are connected to the comics. It's not a crazy leap really.
Bumblebee also establishes a continuity with the Bay films, which are connected to the comics. It's not a crazy leap really.
Yes, but not with the canon version of the BB and ROTB.
Pro Bot
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Correct, and I made no statements otherwise.
Pro Bot
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I get what you mean, but if we're looking at this comic at face value, the events of Bumblebee take place in the IDW Bayverse and the events of this comic branch off. That's what happens with the other realities featured.
They show the exact same scene with the exact same designs and it's in the exact same year. It's an explicit Bumblebee connection.
Like that TFWiki article said, the writer explicitly used the Gamma (comic) designation, and not Delta (live action) to not mess with the movie canon. The creator statements give further context to things which were already implied in the comic (Gamma-Delta distinction).
But no such context exists in between the Bay comics and the BB movies, not in the movies or in creator statements. I would say that is the difference.
I mean even the ROTB director said that he only took the first three Bay movies as semi-canon, and the BB movie director implied he doesn't really care about the previous film continuity and the story he tells is more important. If even the OG movies are of dubious canonicity to the BB movies, it is safe to assume the Bay comics are not even in consideration.
Megatron
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tbh the reality designations are a bit weird as they separated the Cybertron games from the Prime cartoon and WfC is even in the primax cluster. So uhhhhh they aren't reliable.
I agree they aren't too reliable (the writers say that the streams don't equate to universes, so it's really confusing). However, in this case, the Cliffjumper comic writer said he used the Gamma designation for a reason. According to the TFWiki link, the writer said he made sure to only use "dead continuities", as in the ones not in use, and refrained from using the active ones, such as the BB movieverse.
Also, about that Primax WFC game thing, apparently the WFC game was duplicated in the Primax cluster. So, the WFC game is meant to be both Primax and Uniend.
Pro Bot
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That's not what it says exactly, though.
These are out-of-context anecdotes written by the poster on the wiki, not quotes from the writer.
Nowhere does it explicitly say that they used the designation of the IDW comics to distance from Bumblebee. That's inferred from a second-hand account. That interpretation is something you might think based on what someone said about what someone else said.
What we see in the comic, more importantly, is:
1. All realities are the same designation as the continuities that they branch from.
2. The Bayverse should, as a result, be a branched timeline from the original continuity.
3. It branches, very specifically, from the events of the Bumblebee movie. This isn't really arguable, it's what the comic literally shows us. The writer even pretty much confirms as much by saying it's in 1987.
4. The designations are based on medium rather than universe, so really, the "Gamma" part doesn't make it a separate universe to Bumblebee.
I personally just find the reading that it is the same universe as Bumblebee and they're branching off from it more consistent with the story. Even if not, it still implies that the exact same events from Bumblebee were happening no matter what reading you ascribe to it.
Face value based on on-panel stuff and the writer's commentary. The connection between Bay comics and the BB movies lacks that. That is the basic difference between the two. The CJ comic thing can't be equated with what you are saying. Simple as that really.
1.) Because here, the writer didn't think of them as branched timelines but actually changing the timeline according to the TFWiki link from someone that talked to the creators (I said to ignore the timeline changing originally since erasing the entire shows of G1 and Aligned wouldn't really stick, but this was indeed his intention).
4.) Often they use it interchangeably (look up the AVP stuff where they sometimes call streams realities, universes etc.) And in here, the writer did use it to mean realities. Again, the creator already explained his intention here.
I won't address your other points because I basically already addressed them before and I don't wanna be here arguing all day.
And before you say why I am ignoring this and accepting the BB scene taking place in the IDW Bayverse comic universe is because accepting that the entire canon of the G1 cartoon and the Prime cartoon got erased would be over the top, while the BB movie stuff from the CJ comic doesn't harm the canon at all.
Pro Bot
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"There's no connection between Bumblebee and the IDW comics"
"The BB movie stuff-"
So you're saying that the comic intends for the events of Bumblebee to happen in the IDW comic universe before it gets changed due to time travel. We agree then. You just believe that IDW is a branch from Bumblebee.
If Bumblebee wasn't canon, they wouldn't use Bumblebee as a branching off point. The events of Bumblebee are happening here in the IDW comic reality.
"The BB movie stuff-"
So you're saying that the comic intends for the events of Bumblebee to happen in the IDW comic universe before it gets changed due to time travel. We agree then. You just believe that IDW is a branch from Bumblebee.
If Bumblebee wasn't canon, they wouldn't use Bumblebee as a branching off point. The events of Bumblebee are happening here in the IDW comic reality.
@Pro Bot
This is what Sabrblade (who attented the event) says.
This is what Sabrblade (who attented the event) says.
- Nothing written in this comic affects anything Hasbro is currently working on. These old continuities mean a lot to us fans, but to Hasbro they are considered dead continuities at this point, meaning this comic was able to freely play around with them like this. Back during the Fun Pub years, they couldn't touch the main continuities of the time (save for Animated which they only did in direct collaboration with Marty Isenberg and Derrick J. Wyatt, and only after that cartoon was fully over). But now, "What's it matter at this point?" Current Hasbro doesn't care, so it's whatever.
Megatron
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but it is false.... Like the fun publications had comics set in almost every major continuities.
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I already quoted that in a previous comment and clarified why I don't think it changes anything.
Does the comic branch from the events of Bumblebee or not? If yes, then Bumblebee is associated with the IDW comics in some form. If not, then why did they take a scene from it, even setting it in the same year, and change the timeline from those events?
You now have to accept that Bumblebee is associated with the IDW comic continuity no matter what way you interpret the story. That, or you ignore the very clear depiction of Bumblebee's events.
Bruh, it is an alternate version of the BB movie explicitly taking place in a Gamma stream instead of Delta. The other ones (from dead continuities) used the exact designation from which their media was from (Uniend Alpha, Primax Alpha etc.).
There is nothing to suggest that the altered timeline can't be the actual IDW Bayverse universe. The reason why the G1 cartoon and the Prime cartoon are different timelines is because they competely changed their respective show's timelines (like Cliffjumper living in Prime). Meanwhile, there is nothing suggesting IDW Bayverse CJ was meant to die in 1987. Opposite in fact, since he was alive in 2007.
Also, even if the creator statement is from a second-hand account, it is still pretty detailed and the same points get reiterated (so, not one offs). Sabrblade was making an account of the event, not talking about his own opinion. He was recording the creator's explanation. Even if he were to subconsciously add his own interpretation into the mix, the amount of detail the account has and the fact that the same point gets reiterated (not touching active continuities part) suggests it is reliable enough to use.
And finally, if nothing else, all this is at least better than the non-existent canon connection between the BB movies and the Bay comics, which remember was your main point in the beginning.
Those were usually alternate versions of those universes (Classics was a What If-verse and Wings Universe was not canon to the cartoon). On the other hand, this comic revealed G1 cartoon CJ's fate (surviving to the end of existence).
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Megatron
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Classics it's a continuation of Marvel usa, not a what if. Like regeneration One, or Generation 2.
The Wingverse are stories that could happen in the cartoon.
And anyway there's beast world, Animated, the Alligned scripts. Like the majority of the 7 big continuities has been explored by them.
Classics was a splinter timeline tho. It wasn't meant to be a canon continuation. (According to AVP at least, that would be the G2 comic).
According to Pete Sinclair, Wings Universe is a different reality.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Wings_Universe#cite_ref-0
"Collectors' Club forum thread in which Pete Sinclair says the Wings of Honor continuity "is VERY similar to the original G1 toon, though it is different enough to allow us some leeway in the overall story telling. [...] Scourge will have always been in his BotCon 2009 body, Hot Rod in his Universe Legends body and so on. As time goes on there will be more subtle, and not so subtle, differences
