Ultimate Characters that need their backstories or motive expanded

The Overlord

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What Ultimate characters need their backstories or motive expanded. It seems to me a lot of villains in the UU are merely evil for evil's sake, many of them don't have motives and ones who do often have have very shallow motives. Why is Electro a criminal? Why did the Vulture become a rogue agent? Why doesn't any Ultimate villain have a tragic background?
 
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Multiple Man and Forge.

Do we already have a thread for this?
 

Caduceus

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Do we? I run some searches under "motive" and "backstories" and I didn't see anything.
Thats cool then. Anyone finds one, just drop a link and we'll merge, because I think there's one out there somewhere.

To be honest, I'd say most of them. Not changes, or even dramatic expansion, just filling out whats already there.
 

ProjectX2

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The thing is, some characters, like Thor, work better if their back story isn't fully revealed. The mystery aspect of it works better rather than saying "this is his origin, this is Thor."
 

darkspider

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The thing is, some characters, like Thor, work better if their back story isn't fully revealed. The mystery aspect of it works better rather than saying "this is his origin, this is Thor."

And then there are characters that need their whole backstories redone.

Yes, I mean Deadpool. It's sad that the Ultimate Universe already needs to retcon their characters, but I mean, c'mon, Ultimate Deadpool sucks.
 

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The thing is, some characters, like Thor, work better if their back story isn't fully revealed. The mystery aspect of it works better rather than saying "this is his origin, this is Thor."

Very true.

Explaining Thor's background will ruin the character. Mark my words.
 

Joe Kalicki

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I think Thor's Godhood has been pretty much confirmed over the last couple issues of Ultimates (if I can remember that far back).
 
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The Overlord

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The thing is, some characters, like Thor, work better if their back story isn't fully revealed. The mystery aspect of it works better rather than saying "this is his origin, this is Thor."

I think thor is the excpetion that proves the rule. besides this problem facing the villains in the UU, rather than heroes. Almost every villain in the UU is either apsycho or thug (or a joke) often with very shallow motives or no motive at all.

Let's look at some villains, why is Electro a criminal? Now one can say he is just a stupid thug, but that's kinda shallow. Besides that's his motive in the 616 universe, is Ultimate Electro the exact same character only with a different costume? That's kinda lame. Besides with the 616 Electro he was an idiot who gained powers by luck, with Ultimate Electro it seemed like he volunteered to undergo the procedure that gave him his powers? Why did Max volunteer for that experiment? At least they tried to give Electro some backstory (something about a dependent realationship with his mother leading to self esteem issues), I don't know if that stuck, but at least they made an effort.

Also let's look at Ultimate Vulture, why did he go rogue? Did he develop an ideological disagreement with sHIELD, did disagree with their methods?

Some the best super villains in the 616 universe are the ones who you felt could have become super heroes if that fort a few tragic events that left them bitter twisted. You don't get felling with Ultimate villains, they all seem to be thugs and psychos who are evil for evil's sake. most Ultimate villains have as much depth as Dick Dastardly or Snidely Whiplash.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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Why not? Why can't these "villains" just be thugs? That's what they are, aren't they? Do they need a big dramatic exposure? Besides anyone who does need fleshing out will be fleshed out eventually.

The reason tragic backgrounds aren't as abundant in the UU is because they're overdone.

This reminds me of my Juvenile Justice class and the arguments I get into there. Every kid has to have been abused or raped to do bad things? **** it. No, they have not. People are good and evil. If you give into basic human temptation you're going to make bad decisions.

Electro? What needs to be said? His life was crime. Someone came along and offered him a way to capitalize and he took it. Good enough for me.

Unfortunately Omega Red was ultimized badly. If he had been an experiment then we could get a backstory. But he wasn't he was a mutant from Russia. He was born as a mutant and used his abilities selfishly. Then he was hired to sabotage Roxxon.

Ultimate Vulture will be expanded upon later. I thought it was very clever how he was brought in but we don't need an explanation immediately following his first appearance. When they decided to bring him back they'll have a story to tell then.

Forge and Multiple Man. Still waiting for someone to come along and to just say. "Mutant adolescents didn't have a choice. Stay at home and be ridiculed by their families and communities or go with other mutants." Charles Xavier did a piss poor job recruiting mutants. He hand picked them while Magneto gave the option to belong.

Thor's been explained if you ask me. He's a God. What else do you want? An Ultimate Thor series?

What about Deathlok?

What about the promised Bishop connection from New Mutants we were supposed to get? I'm sure that will be coming up soon. Or the infamous Silver Sable blindspot in her story.

I'm not concerned with backstories. Most of them will be revealed in time.

But seriously, how can you be concerned with Electro and other two-bit thugs when there are much more obvious characters with holes in their history that need to be explained (Elektra, Sinister, Lizard, what happened to Geldoff and like Overlord said; Vulture)
 

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See also: Wolverine.

Are you talking about Origin?

I thought Origin was OK because it didn't get too specific. It left out a lot of things that should have been left out but still told an engaging story. And it had one of the best twists I've read in a comic.

Now, if you're talking about the newer Origins & Endings and whatnot - I agree.
 

Lynx

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Why not? Why can't these "villains" just be thugs? That's what they are, aren't they? Do they need a big dramatic exposure? Besides anyone who does need fleshing out will be fleshed out eventually.

I agree 100%. I'm going to use Sam Jackson's speech to Bruce Willis from Unbreakable as a point here.

There are some villains that just work better as thugs, like Electro. He's a glorified thugs. They test the hero's physical strength. Then, there is the archvillain, a person usually closely associated with the hero, who tests his mind. This would be Green Goblin or Doc Ock for Spidey.

Then, there's the misunderstood villain. This villain does bad things for a good cause, like stealing to help pay for treatment for a sick child.

The problem is that often, thugs need a little bit of fleshing out. Especially super-powered thugs like Electro. Using throwaway characters that weren't originally created to be throwaways, like Omega Red, is bad writing. So is taking a character concept that could work with a little ingenuity, and then throwing away said concept.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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I agree 100%. I'm going to use Sam Jackson's speech to Bruce Willis from Unbreakable as a point here.

There are some villains that just work better as thugs, like Electro. He's a glorified thugs. They test the hero's physical strength. Then, there is the archvillain, a person usually closely associated with the hero, who tests his mind. This would be Green Goblin or Doc Ock for Spidey.

Then, there's the misunderstood villain. This villain does bad things for a good cause, like stealing to help pay for treatment for a sick child.

The problem is that often, thugs need a little bit of fleshing out. Especially super-powered thugs like Electro. Using throwaway characters that weren't originally created to be throwaways, like Omega Red, is bad writing. So is taking a character concept that could work with a little ingenuity, and then throwing away said concept.

I'm glad you agree and nice reference to one of the all time greatest movies of all time.

The last part about Electro needing to be fleshed out... I think it would be great if he was fleshed out. I really do. But I think that something everyone is missing here is that these character backgrounds don't need to be expanded on. People seem to forget that for some of these characters the adventure is just beginning. They got their powers so the stories can be told from that point on. I mean what would happen if we were calling for Peter Parker to be "fleshed out". I don't want to read pre-SpiderMan stories. Anything that's thrown in to his past will come off as cheap to me. Same thing goes for these villains they left the normal dull life behind and are now potentials for interesting characters.
 

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