Ultimate Daredevil Origins

TheManWithoutFear

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Ok, I've been trying to think of a way to bring this about but really I love Daredevil's origin. I love his father, the fixer, getting blinded, and stick. I love it all so much that I wouldn't change it for anything. So really I'm not going too. If someone else wants to run it by me (which they should do with caution) then I'd politely give you my disapproval of your idea. :twisted:

Something I did want to tie into the origin to was SHIELD or other U.S. Military Organizations. Anyway since JTG brought it up in the Ultimate Captains thread I think it's time I unleashed my unstable theory. There may be holes in it so the experts can help me out but here's what I was thinking.

Regarding Matt Murdock going blind and heightening his other senses:

I'm not particular on if he helps out and old man or, like the movie, he's running after he sees his dad is "one of the bad guys". But It all comes down the same way just as Peter Parker gets bit by a radioactive spider. Matt Murdock gets in the way of a military vehicle transporting a radioactive chemical and is accidentally blinded coming in contact with the substance, granting him permanent blindness and supersenses.

What was the chemical?


Desperately trying to recreate the Supersoldier serum, The U.S. Government tried different variations that had different effects on the individuals tested on. This variant that blinded Matt Murdock, was meant to heighten the 5 senses of an individual. A few things could have gone wrong with it. Possibly a mixture of the sense variation and strength was deadly or dangerous, possibly the way the serum was administered (shot or oral intake) never activated the chemicals like it was supposed to.

The explaination on why/how it worked on Ultimate Matt Murdock...

When a man is blinded it is theorized, some say proven, that his other senses are heightened. Many describe it as a survival trait. When the chemical struck Matt in the eyes and blinded him it activated and worked with his other biological features to heighten his sense to superhuman levels.

What does SHIELD do about a superhuman, they created by accident?
Most fabricated part of my theory


In the RPG I showed Fury acknowledge SHIELD knowing about Murdock and his accident. I even set the dialogue up so that Fury says that it's their fault and gives Murdock the upper hand and an option on what role he's going to play. Setting up so that Matt Murdock/Daredevil becomes a reserve member of The Ultimates/S.H.I.E.L.D.

Ok, so that's what I have... any questions, comments, complaints?
 
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Friday

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I like it all except the bit with Fury. I think that the unintended consequences of the Super-Soilder research have bitten them in the *** enough. It's time we had atleast one result of it where the person does something good with thier life.

And honestly, Daredevil isn't an Ultimate. He's not an Avenger either. He might have been a member, but he's perfectly suited for street-level action. Putting him in the "big leauges" really does nothing for the character, other than showing how outclassed he can be by other powered beings.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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Baxter said:
I like it all except the bit with Fury. I think that the unintended consequences of the Super-Soilder research have bitten them in the *** enough. It's time we had atleast one result of it where the person does something good with thier life.
So you do or don't like that part because you say it's time someone does something good and that's just what Murdock is doin?

Baxter said:
And honestly, Daredevil isn't an Ultimate. He's not an Avenger either. He might have been a member, but he's perfectly suited for street-level action. Putting him in the "big leauges" really does nothing for the character, other than showing how outclassed he can be by other powered beings.
That's why I said he's a reserve he's not in core of action but is called up when they're desperate for help or when his skills are needed (ex. Trial of The Incredible Hulk). See doesn't even have to be for action.
 

Friday

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TheManWithoutFear said:
So you do or don't like that part because you say it's time someone does something good and that's just what Murdock is doin?
I don't like it because Fury knows. Fury can't know everything. If he has contact with DD afterwords and puts 2 and 2 together that's fine, but he shouldn't be comepletly omnipotent.
 

Patriot Mk2

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What if it wasn't a super-soldier formula,just a sense heightener that wasn't meant to get in your eyes?Could be an origin for say,Ultimate Hydra or The Hand or whoever-the formula plus the normal sensory upgrade from being blinded puts Murdock ahead of them,and explains the extra sense.Just rambling here....
 

TheManWithoutFear

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Baxter said:
I don't like it because Fury knows. Fury can't know everything. If he has contact with DD afterwords and puts 2 and 2 together that's fine, but he shouldn't be comepletly omnipotent.

Well, this is the point I'm waiting for in The Ultimate Universe. SHIELD should know EVERYTHING. Any superhero activity should immediately be looked at. I'm not saying that when Murdock first gets in the accident that SHIELD knows. I want SHIELD to be smart enough somewhere down the road when they hear about Daredevil, to investigate and put 2 n' 2 together. I'd think it too coincidental if they just hired Murdock, who happens to be another superhero, to defend the hulk.

Patriot said:
What if it wasn't a super-soldier formula,just a sense heightener that wasn't meant to get in your eyes?Could be an origin for say,Ultimate Hydra or The Hand or whoever-the formula plus the normal sensory upgrade from being blinded puts Murdock ahead of them,and explains the extra sense.Just rambling here....
If that's what you'd like then roll with it. But consider this...
SHIELD was the first working on the supersoldier serum. According to DIrishB, who I have huge faith in when it comes to the chronology of the UU, Daredevil takes place in 1997. Matt Murdock is in College, a freshmen I believe. So this makes him 18-19 years old. Now he already has his powers so let's consider that we want a good solid origin story and we want to throw Ultimate Stick in there and it takes some years for his training. So let's say he gets in the accident at age 13-14 making it '92-'93. Everyone's crazy theory on all the superheroes pop up at once and states that everything is going on around 2001. What I'm getting at is SHIELD may be the ONLY ones working on the serum at the point of Daredevil's origin. I'd really like to keep HYDRA and THE HAND off U.S. Turf at this point in the timeline. That's the only problem I have with it not being SHIELD.
 

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TheManWithoutFear said:
If that's what you'd like then roll with it. But consider this...
SHIELD was the first working on the supersoldier serum. According to DIrishB, who I have huge faith in when it comes to the chronology of the UU, Daredevil takes place in 1997. Matt Murdock is in College, a freshmen I believe. So this makes him 18-19 years old. Now he already has his powers so let's consider that we want a good solid origin story and we want to throw Ultimate Stick in there and it takes some years for his training. So let's say he gets in the accident at age 13-14 making it '92-'93. Everyone's crazy theory on all the superheroes pop up at once and states that everything is going on around 2001. What I'm getting at is SHIELD may be the ONLY ones working on the serum at the point of Daredevil's origin. I'd really like to keep HYDRA and THE HAND off U.S. Turf at this point in the timeline. That's the only problem I have with it not being SHIELD.

Move the accident back a bit,and say they were working on it in the first gulf war.
 

ourchair

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You've got a solid idea with SHIELD having their finger in the pie of just about every superhuman chemical catalyst. Its consistent with Ultimate so far, but I think you should try to place the fateful canister further away from them and with another company like say Roxxon, AIM, Hammer Industries or the Brand Corp.

It's still technically SHIELD because those companies are competing for the Super Soldier contract (alongside OsCorp), but it makes it convenient for SHIELD to be only REMOTELY aware of that stuff.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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Ok, guys twist my arm.

We have some nominees who do you think it'd be better to have been responsible for the accident. Remember once you bring in Ultimate H.Y.D.R.A., A.I.M., Roxxon, or whoever they'll be a major part of Daredevil Mythology. The only reason I wanted S.H.I.E.L.D. was because it's subtle and all it would've involved and assured was an interaction with Matt Murdock and Fury and Fury being understanding about the accident since it was his organization that caused it. If it were another company I'd think that SHIELD wouldn't look too kindly on Daredevil regardless of what he was doing and they'd probably go after him aggresively.
 

ourchair

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TheManWithoutFear said:
We have some nominees who do you think it'd be better to have been responsible for the accident. Remember once you bring in Ultimate H.Y.D.R.A., A.I.M., Roxxon, or whoever they'll be a major part of Daredevil Mythology. The only reason I wanted S.H.I.E.L.D. was because it's subtle and all it would've involved and assured was an interaction with Matt Murdock and Fury and Fury being understanding about the accident since it was his organization that caused it. If it were another company I'd think that SHIELD wouldn't look too kindly on Daredevil regardless of what he was doing and they'd probably go after him aggresively.
Well in all honesty, I only brought up "other corporations" because I think being "tangentially related to SHIELD" would be better than having the already ubiquitous Nick Fury show up again. I swear to god, he's the UU's very own Wolverine.

As for which SPECIFIC corporation that would be is really up to you MWOF. I honestly don't consider it all that important because it doesn't necessarily mean that corporation is going to take an active "character" role. One way to illustrate this, is that in 616 the Brand Corporation was where Beast did a lot of genetic tinkering, and one of his experiments resulted in his blue furry form, yet that corporation is hardly brought up at all.

Similarly, Frank Miller's own Man Without Fear mini alludes to a nameless corporation that bullies Jack Murdock into not pursuing legal action for Matt's accident, and after that we NEVER hear from them again.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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ourchair said:
Well in all honesty, I only brought up "other corporations" because I think being "tangentially related to SHIELD" would be better than having the already ubiquitous Nick Fury show up again. I swear to god, he's the UU's very own Wolverine.

Nick Fury has purpose to be the UU's own Wolverine (A title I'd prefer you not to use because it'll bring down people's opinion of Ultimate Fury). Nick Fury is SHIELD, SHIELD is where the action is.

ourchair said:
As for which SPECIFIC corporation that would be is really up to you MWOF. I honestly don't consider it all that important because it doesn't necessarily mean that corporation is going to take an active "character" role. One way to illustrate this, is that in 616 the Brand Corporation was where Beast did a lot of genetic tinkering, and one of his experiments resulted in his blue furry form, yet that corporation is hardly brought up at all.

Similarly, Frank Miller's own Man Without Fear mini alludes to a nameless corporation that bullies Jack Murdock into not pursuing legal action for Matt's accident, and after that we NEVER hear from them again.

Actually I suppose you're right. I always find little nods to 616 products to be fun. So let's say it was someone other than SHIELD. And then if this all took physical form someday and it was Ultimate Whoever, I could see everyone on this board going crazy saying "Oh, they have to be appearing soon" sorta like what happened with Ultimate Roxxon.

I still think a Daredevil/Fury scene is needed and would be very cool. If SHIELD knows about Daredevil they would confront him.
 

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TheManWithoutFear said:
Actually I suppose you're right. I always find little nods to 616 products to be fun. So let's say it was someone other than SHIELD. And then if this all took physical form someday and it was Ultimate Whoever, I could see everyone on this board going crazy saying "Oh, they have to be appearing soon" sorta like what happened with Ultimate Roxxon.
Glad you see my point, and also glad to see you helped fill it up with some Ultimate examples of where this has happened. Hell, other than Sandman and Electro, I don't think we've seen Hammer Industries really mucking around: No Constrictor, Blizzard, Blacklash or Melter running about nor do we see anybody sporting Mandroid or Guardsmen armor.

TheManWithoutFear said:
Nick Fury has purpose to be the UU's own Wolverine (A title I'd prefer you not to use because it'll bring down people's opinion of Ultimate Fury). Nick Fury is SHIELD, SHIELD is where the action is.

I still think a Daredevil/Fury scene is needed and would be very cool. If SHIELD knows about Daredevil they would confront him.
I was being utterly facetious when I compared Fury to Wolverine, you silly person, not to mention completely irreverent.

I agree that Nick Fury will have to be in here somewhere, not just for the cool factor, but because it seems only logical that even if SHIELD doesn't know about Murdock's abilities at first, they will find it sooner rather than later.

It would be interesting to see how Fury regards Murdock. While Fury could easily hold a great degree of respect for this one-man neighborhood watch, I think that whole mutual respect deal has already been played out with Ultimate Spider-Man, even if that relationship can be distinguished as having Fury in a spiritual father role.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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ourchair said:
Glad you see my point, and also glad to see you helped fill it up with some Ultimate examples of where this has happened. Hell, other than Sandman and Electro, I don't think we've seen Hammer Industries really mucking around: No Constrictor, Blizzard, Blacklash or Melter running about nor do we see anybody sporting Mandroid or Guardsmen armor.

Hammer Industries is done now, correct? After Hammer died it fell apart. Isn't that what happened?


OurChair said:
I agree that Nick Fury will have to be in here somewhere, not just for the cool factor, but because it seems only logical that even if SHIELD doesn't know about Murdock's abilities at first, they will find it sooner rather than later.
Right, but they won't know about Murdock's powers until years after the accident and rumors about Daredevil rise up. Hurt me if you hate the idea, but do you think it'd be cool to have an Ultimate Agent Del Toro working for SHIELD and puts together Matt Murdock and Daredevil? :twisted:

OurChair said:
It would be interesting to see how Fury regards Murdock. While Fury could easily hold a great degree of respect for this one-man neighborhood watch, I think that whole mutual respect deal has already been played out with Ultimate Spider-Man, even if that relationship can be distinguished as having Fury in a spiritual father role.
It be interesting to see how Fury regards any superhero other than Spider-Man in the UU. I mean they're out there and Fury clearly gives Peter the message that once you're powerful enough to be a soldier you're going to work for SHIELD. Although I disagree with the relationship between Fury and a respected hero as being played out, that's not what concerns me as much as SHIELD's relationship with the respective figure. Fury's just the middle man in the scenerio.
 

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TheManWithoutFear said:
Hammer Industries is done now, correct? After Hammer died it fell apart. Isn't that what happened?
As far as I know, there's no real evidence that Hammer Industries fell apart after Justin Hammer's death. At best, we can only assume that there was a big PR disaster from Ock, and the stock plummeted with Hammer's death. But on the flip side, we can also imagine that the company bounced back under new management a months later.

TheManWithoutFear said:
Hurt me if you hate the idea, but do you think it'd be cool to have an Ultimate Agent Del Toro working for SHIELD and puts together Matt Murdock and Daredevil? :twisted:
I don't hate the idea at all, but that's mostly because I'm not as beholden to the original concepts of 616, nor do I consider them sacrosanct. As I mentioned way back, if I had it my way, Ultimate Daredevil would be so different that longtime DD fans would kill Frank Miller just so they can use the expression, "Frank Miller's turning in his grave"

But this is your idea and your direction, so all my feedback here is meant to be geared to where you're taking the character and not where I want him to be. :D In any case, I'm okay with Del Toro figuring out DD's identity, if only because it'd be a cool twist on DD's mythos and because Ultimate Urich doesn't strike me as the same kind of individual as the 616 Urich that would follow that kind of story.

If anything, I'd rather see Del Toro as a local Hell's Kitchen cop, frustrated with being unable to stem the tide of growing urban unrest yet seeing one man breaking the law to do so with spectacular results. She wants to know why a man would turn to vigilantism to put his fists where his convictions are, and answer her own personal problems with trying to fix things within the boundaries of the law.

Her quest to understand what makes DD tick, yet RESPECT what makes him different from her, even if she cannot relate is in the grand tradition of cops and vigilantes like Commisioner Gordon and Batman.

TheManWithoutFear said:
It be interesting to see how Fury regards any superhero other than Spider-Man in the UU. I mean they're out there and Fury clearly gives Peter the message that once you're powerful enough to be a soldier you're going to work for SHIELD. Although I disagree with the relationship between Fury and a respected hero as being played out, that's not what concerns me as much as SHIELD's relationship with the respective figure. Fury's just the middle man in the scenerio.
You misunderstand me. I'm not saying that its played out solely through Spider-Man, but rather the very SPECIFIC relationship they have IS. The relationship in which Fury says: "Kid, I respect you. I respect you because you are not only someone of power who ISN'T a tool, but one who managed to live up to your own personal promises to take down greedy butt hat after greedy butt hat. And one day, I want you to join me."

Fury will most DEFINITELY have a relationship with DD. But there's got to be some variation on that. Maybe for once we might even see a Fury who's willing to deny his own duties by ALLOWING DD to operate even if he's of legal age. Or maybe he thinks DD is some kind of weird PR problem. I don't know. The point is, Fury STILL RESPECTS DD, even if he acts it out differently. :D
 

TheManWithoutFear

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ourchair said:
I don't hate the idea at all, but that's mostly because I'm not as beholden to the original concepts of 616, nor do I consider them sacrosanct. As I mentioned way back, if I had it my way, Ultimate Daredevil would be so different that longtime DD fans would kill Frank Miller just so they can use the expression, "Frank Miller's turning in his grave"

But this is your idea and your direction, so all my feedback here is meant to be geared to where you're taking the character and not where I want him to be. :D In any case, I'm okay with Del Toro figuring out DD's identity, if only because it'd be a cool twist on DD's mythos and because Ultimate Urich doesn't strike me as the same kind of individual as the 616 Urich that would follow that kind of story.

If anything, I'd rather see Del Toro as a local Hell's Kitchen cop, frustrated with being unable to stem the tide of growing urban unrest yet seeing one man breaking the law to do so with spectacular results. She wants to know why a man would turn to vigilantism to put his fists where his convictions are, and answer her own personal problems with trying to fix things within the boundaries of the law.

Her quest to understand what makes DD tick, yet RESPECT what makes him different from her, even if she cannot relate is in the grand tradition of cops and vigilantes like Commisioner Gordon and Batman.

Ok. But do you want a character from SHIELD in charge of Murdock? Or just have them figure it out. The cop deal is good too. And eventually do you want to see Ultimate White Tiger?

As for Ultimate Urich, I'd still like to see him involved with the uncovering of Daredevil. As I've stated on this board in the past, Urich is not the same compassionate man we love in 616. I think it'd be a good for his character if he found out Daredevil's identity.


OurChair said:
Fury will most DEFINITELY have a relationship with DD. But there's got to be some variation on that. Maybe for once we might even see a Fury who's willing to deny his own duties by ALLOWING DD to operate even if he's of legal age.

I like that.
 

ourchair

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TheManWithoutFear said:
Ok. But do you want a character from SHIELD in charge of Murdock? Or just have them figure it out. The cop deal is good too.
You've already planned out Fury as being directly involved, so anybody else in SHIELD would be overshadowed by him. I don't think you need to play out the SHIELD elements with more than one character unless you have additional reason to do so.

TheManWithoutFear said:
And eventually do you want to see Ultimate White Tiger?
That's a natural question extending from the Del Toro issue, so I can't say I haven't thought about it. Honestly? I see little reason to bring out the White Tiger card until years and years down the line. If anything, it'll be enough to translate Del Toro's growing admiration for DD into vigilante sympathy, and let THAT (for the first twenty four issues or so) suggest that she considers LEAVING the structures of the law quite often as a means of alluding to her potential future as a superhero.

TheManWithoutFear said:
As for Ultimate Urich, I'd still like to see him involved with the uncovering of Daredevil. As I've stated on this board in the past, Urich is not the same compassionate man we love in 616.
If I'm not mistaken, you and I already had a discussion about Ultimate Urich vs. 616 Urich. My take is that Ultimate Urich is different from 616 because he's such an eager beaver type gung-ho journalist rather than the chain-smoking dude with a sense of world-weary empathy.

I'm really indifferent as to whether Ultimate Urich uncovers DD's identity. If he finds out, that's alright: there are many ways to play that out in an interesting fashion. But the whole "solving the puzzle of the Devil" deal that Miller and MacKenzie did back in 616 should be reserved for someone like Del Toro.
 

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ourchair said:
You've already planned out Fury as being directly involved, so anybody else in SHIELD would be overshadowed by him. I don't think you need to play out the SHIELD elements with more than one character unless you have additional reason to do so
I just thought that it would be a good way to tone down Fury's involvement with Daredevil. I want to see Fury talk to him but I don't want Fury appearing everytime SHIELD shows up. So I thought that Fury could assign Del Toro to investigate the Daredevil appearances. Either way works for me though.
That's a natural question extending from the Del Toro issue, so I can't say I haven't thought about it. Honestly? I see little reason to bring out the White Tiger card until years and years down the line. If anything, it'll be enough to translate Del Toro's growing admiration for DD into vigilante sympathy, and let THAT (for the first twenty four issues or so) suggest that she considers LEAVING the structures of the law quite often as a means of alluding to her potential future as a superhero.
Well Yeah, I didn't mean Ultimate White Tiger appears immediately. I was actually thinking along the lines of what you said about how she's battleing herself considering if the vigilante route is really that bad.
 

The Overlord

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You know TMWOF you could do what the 90s Spider-Man cartoon and have one of Kingpin's shell companies be the one that is transporting the chemicals around that blind Matt.
 

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