Ultimate Phoenix/Jean Grey

Goodwill

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An interesting conversation came up in the thread about Colossus'/Rogue's power about the Phoenix being either a seperate entity or a development in Jean's power. We've got signs pointing in both directions, it appears, and I think this may be something fun for us to tackle.

Since we know that, prior to meeting Xavier, Jean knew about the Phoenix and had visions of it. I think that, at that point, it could've been a development, however, the Hellfire Club completely discounted that. I'm thinking that the HFC knew that Jean was going to have these powers (She's a 'chosen one') and merely bided their time before they acted... I think we'd need to get more of an elaboration on this before we go anywhere else with the Phoenix.
 

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Goodwill said:
An interesting conversation came up in the thread about Colossus'/Rogue's power about the Phoenix being either a seperate entity or a development in Jean's power. We've got signs pointing in both directions, it appears, and I think this may be something fun for us to tackle.

Since we know that, prior to meeting Xavier, Jean knew about the Phoenix and had visions of it. I think that, at that point, it could've been a development, however, the Hellfire Club completely discounted that. I'm thinking that the HFC knew that Jean was going to have these powers (She's a 'chosen one') and merely bided their time before they acted... I think we'd need to get more of an elaboration on this before we go anywhere else with the Phoenix.

I haven't read the HFC arc closely in a long time, but didn't they worship the Phoenix for thousands of years or something like that?
 

Friday

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Well, I think that once we know where Thor came from we may get some indications of The Pheonix. If you remember at the end of Return of the King Thor warns her to not just dismiss it as a manifistation of her abilities.
 

Guijllons

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Ok, to get a few things clear to begin with. The Hellfire Club have been worshipping this phoenix for a long time, way before jean was born. So the Idea of the phoenix didn't originate with Jean.
So either, Jean somehow became aware of the phoenix from a member of the hellfire club (psychically or not) and the image of the phoenix became a coping mechanism for the powers she could not yet control or understand. Or, the Phoenix is real.
But, if the case is that it's not real how did the Hellfire Club find out that Jean had these visions in the first place?
So (assuming it isn't real) there seems that there must have been an interesting exchange between a Hellfire Club member and Jean at some point in the past. The HFC member suspecting Jean may be a good vessel for the phoenix, and supplying here with the appropriate imagery, and in her confused state agreeing with him, and seeing the phoenix after he mentions it.
It's simple unintended suggestion, it's how people think they see ghosts, they see something, someone asks if it was a ghost, and then the first person says "yes, it was a ghost" and proceeds to fill in the gaps in a story that they didn't live based on the idea that they did actually see a ghost.
 

Goodwill

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Which would lead to one way that we could see the Hellfire Club again. I thought they were dismissed far too easily for something such as them. I want them to come back, but not for the sake of coming back... They need purpose and, if they did come back, they'd need there boy Sebastian Shaw back, too.
 

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