Ultimatum Aftermath: Making Lemonade out of Lemons?

[The Overlord]

Now that Ultimatum is over and we agree it was a bad storyline, do you think Bendis and Millar are using the fall out from Ultimatum to make good stories?

 

[E]

Now that Ultimatum is over and we agree it was a bad storyline, do you think Bendis and Millar are using the fall out from Ultimatum to make good stories?

No, but I can't really blame them. They have nothing to work with. There was a big catastrophe, and no lessons were learned; nothing was established other than a bunch of people died.

At least with Secret Invasion, for example, the fall out is that a major super villain is basically in charge of the world. I'm not saying it's a great story, but at least there was a conclusion and something to build off of (which they have). But with Ultimatum...nothing.

 

[Zombipanda]

No, but I can't really blame them. They have nothing to work with. There was a big catastrophe, and no lessons were learned; nothing was established other than a bunch of people died.

At least with Secret Invasion, for example, the fall out is that a major super villain is basically in charge of the world. I'm not saying it's a great story, but at least there was a conclusion and something to build off of (which they have). But with Ultimatum...nothing.

Eh. You're saying to tell a good story you need a lead from another writer? I don't know, man. I don't buy that. You're right when you say Loeb didn't give much for Millar and Bendis to work with, but I see that more as an indictment. "A disaster happened" but it's fairly ambiguous and easy to look at in the past without getting mucked up in the details. Millar and Bendis have been left with sole control of the universe (mostly) and they have the whole sandbox to play with. They don't have to worry about stepping on the toes of any other writers. Still, the stories they're telling seem to be mediocre at worst, average at best. They're standard superhero stories which, granted, look like diamonds next to the **** Loeb cranked out, but still don't even compare to much of the 616 Marvel is publishing. We're at a point where Iron Man is more interesting than Ultimate Iron Man, Captain America (both of them) is more interesting than Ultimate Captain America, Hawkeye is doing more interesting things than Ultimate Hawkeye (although, maybe he's still not as interesting), Nick Fury is more interesting than Ultimate Nick Fury, Spider-Man is more interesting than Ultimate Spider-Man...

I feel like maybe the Ultimate imprint should just go away.

 

[DIrishB]

Eh. You're saying to tell a good story you need a lead from another writer? I don't know, man. I don't buy that. You're right when you say Loeb didn't give much for Millar and Bendis to work with, but I see that more as an indictment. "A disaster happened" but it's fairly ambiguous and easy to look at in the past without getting mucked up in the details. Millar and Bendis have been left with sole control of the universe (mostly) and they have the whole sandbox to play with. They don't have to worry about stepping on the toes of any other writers. Still, the stories they're telling seem to be mediocre at worst, average at best. They're standard superhero stories which, granted, look like diamonds next to the **** Loeb cranked out, but still don't even compare to much of the 616 Marvel is publishing. We're at a point where Iron Man is more interesting than Ultimate Iron Man, Captain America (both of them) is more interesting than Ultimate Captain America, Hawkeye is doing more interesting things than Ultimate Hawkeye (although, maybe he's still not as interesting), Nick Fury is more interesting than Ultimate Nick Fury, Spider-Man is more interesting than Ultimate Spider-Man...

I feel like maybe the Ultimate imprint should just go away.

I don't. See, I think they're finally treading the ground they should have been treading from the start. Instead of just modernizing characters and giving them cool costumes, the "new" ultimate universe (post Ultimatum) seems to not be allowing itself to become bogged down in the pre-Ultimatum formula: take a classic 616 character and story, and just update it a bit. That was well and good for awhile, but it quickly became stale. Now, it seems like they're taking the approach of telling ALL original tales (or moreso anyway, Ultimate Armor Wars notwithstanding) without solely depending on the 616 universe for fodder. More original stories, more original characters (hopefully with results better than Geldoff), etc. I'm not the least bit impressed with what we've gotten so far, but I'm hoping this tact will result in some quality stories from quality writers, especially since the proverbial sandbox has much less rules tagged onto it.

This universe now has no Magneto, no Cyclops, no Wolverine (for now), no New York (or a mostly destroyed one) etc. While these characters didn't have to die, its also nice to know we'll get a chance to meet some new characters who might rise to be the A-list and B-list stars of the Ultimate universe and they won't be overshadowed by the ever-present Wolverine, and even better knowing they don't have a 616 clone they're based off of. The same goes for the storylines.

Its sort of a weak argument at this point, but I don't think they should end the Ultimate line outright. I just think they've finally figured out that if they're going to have a separate universe from their main one, its ok to differentiate it a bit--or a lot, especially considering the 616 verse basically aped the Ultimate universe to become the darling of Marvel fans.

So in that sense, then yes, I think we can make lemonade from the lemons Loeb gave us. Or, the Ultimate writers can anyway. I hope.

 

[E]

Eh. You're saying to tell a good story you need a lead from another writer?

Not at all. I didn't say anything close to that.

What I said is that it would be hard to do anything with any direct followup from the events of Ultimatum because there was no direction it was being sent in.

Also, not setting a clear direction is worse for a line of books that are notorious for continuity glitches.