What do you want to see happen with Ultimate Phoenix?

E

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After seeing that Kirkman plans on advancing the Phoenix plot somewhat during his run, I'm curious as to what people want to see happen with it/her/them.

I personally want to see the Dark Phoenix saga Ultimized. At least the part where she goes crazy and destroys a solar system. They can leave out the whole Maddy Prior being a clone of Jean Grey. :roll:
 

jtg3885

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I'm just hoping we don't see green and/or red recolors of the existing X-Woman costume on her. That always annoyed me, the green and red (and now white) Phoenix costumes. How hard would it be to come up with something unique for the 'good' Phoenix versus the 'bad' Phoenix?
 

Goodwill

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I think it should be a development of both Jean and the Hellfire Club, two things that haven't really been touched on since the introduction of the Phoenix. We've seen Jean with Cyclops and not much mention of the HC (Other than in the Syndicate issue) and I think that needs some work. We can't leave it the way it is, especially with more important storylines coming in and having the writers neglec that stuff.
 

Nas-T!

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I'd like to see it go the way of the Spider-Man Clone Saga!! Hehe! Nah, I think they could seriously work with this new Phoenix idea. But one thing EVERY writer that writes for the Ultimate Universe needs to understand is that this is a universe of new possibilities.
It's like Kirkman said about everyone waiting for Ultimate versions of the 616 stories. That is lame and THAt is why I didn't want Gwen to die in the UU. There was more potential for her as Peter's big sister or whatever, than as dead meat for him to feel guilty over. Now we've just got another boring Gwen guilt trip Peter in another, younger universe!

Anyway, enough Gwen whining from me! Back to Phoenix:

I'd like them to make Ultimate Phoenix (the entity) an ancient Goddess type thing instead of a cosmic being. But now this entity has apparently possessed Jean Grey and is guiding her and using her for a purpose...but what purpose? (okay, I concede that we know all that already!).
So we cut to the ancient past when the Hellfire Club was formed by a group of aristocrats who wanted to attain power by bringing the Phoenix to life on Earth or whatever. They kidnapped a young woman named Madelyn Pryor and had the Phoenix possess her, but it had too much power for her feable human mind to contain, so she died or went insane instead.
The Hellfire Club just continued to exist throughout the centuries until now when they finally found the perfect host for the Phoenix in Jean. At first they tried to aid it in possessing her over long range (hence her prior insanity and such) but then, when that failed and time was running out, they simply hooked up with Charles Xavier cos he knew Jean and they slowly worked their way into getting the Phoenix into Jean.

The Phoenix became fond of Jean and started to provide her power upgrades and the like, but whenever she tapped into said upgrades (like when the X-Men faced Spiral) she also tapped directly into The Phoenix itself, and its thirst for vengeance (kinda like The Spectre at DC). You see, it wants to burn away whatever is wrong with the world/universe, and now its idea of right and wrong has been altered by Jean's perceptions.
Eventually, someone attacks Cyclops and shoots him. It looks like he's dead so Jean goes psycho on that person, tapping into The Phoenix. The Phoenix suddenly assumes total control over Jean and then goes on the hunt for all those people Jean would have seen as being 'wrong'. It could even confront Wolverine and try to kill him.
The problem would be that, as it is using Jean, the Phoenix is also eating away at her body, slowly killing her human form. Eventually Jean would be on the ropes and, at the moment of her death, The Phoenix would do what it did in legend. It would fly off to a secret location, burn itself alive, and then come back in a new form. The Phoenix itself would be free while Jean would be reborn (but still as Jean Grey).

Anyways...those're my Phoenix ideas that I just made up here, right now.

Nas
 

TheManWithoutFear

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If they really want to shake things up Jean should bite it and get resurrected and have her body permanently inhabited by the Phoenix. I'd like to see Scott torn apart about having to look at Jean all the time and knowing she's dead-dead. I don't know what I want Phoenix's motivations to be yet.
 

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Goodwill said:
I think it should be a development of both Jean and the Hellfire Club, two things that haven't really been touched on since the introduction of the Phoenix.

The Hellfire Club has played their role. We've had enough of them.
 

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TheManWithoutFear said:
I was thinking the same thing but after Syndicate we know they're still out there... so who knows.

I don't care if they still exist, but as far as the Phoenix goes, Hellfire Club has played their part. It's a cosmic force; a crappy little club shouldn't have anything more to do with it.

I think it might also be cooler if they continued to play the Phoenix Force up as more of a religious thing than a cosmic force.
 

Guijllons

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No aliens, no solar system, no mystical spirit forces.

Honestly, I would like Jean to just be ****ing bugnut crazy. I don't want it to be a universe changing event, more of a huge mutant event played from Scott's perspective.
 

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Nas-T! said:
I'd like to see it go the way of the Spider-Man Clone Saga!! Hehe! Nah, I think they could seriously work with this new Phoenix idea. But one thing EVERY writer that writes for the Ultimate Universe needs to understand is that this is a universe of new possibilities.
It's like Kirkman said about everyone waiting for Ultimate versions of the 616 stories. That is lame and THAt is why I didn't want Gwen to die in the UU. There was more potential for her as Peter's big sister or whatever, than as dead meat for him to feel guilty over. Now we've just got another boring Gwen guilt trip Peter in another, younger universe!

Anyway, enough Gwen whining from me! Back to Phoenix:

No, continue. I agree 5000%. Bendis is a dick.


As for Ultimate Phoenix - I couldn't care less. I think, if they do anything with her, she could possibly become an extinction-level threat to rival Magneto that the X-Men have to put down. No aliens, just her versus the world. She goes crazy and ****. I dunno. I just don't care. If they do it, I just want it to be good.
 
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compound

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I whole-heartedly disagree about no more Phoenix/Hellfire Club connection.

I see it like this:

The Hellfire Club could be similar to the Batman Begins version of the League of Shadows/Assassins, but with an evolutionary twist. Instead of being preoccupied with the idea of evolution and dominant species (as Magneto is), they believe in the idea of social equilibrium (which is why they're funding Xavier's assimilationist efforts).

The Phoenix, then, is not the instrument by which a civilization is judged. It's a kind of levelling force, to allow a society to be brought down to a sustainable level, if it reaches a point of excess. As far as symbols and histroy go, it's wrapped up in the idea of the cosmos and Magick, but it's really just Magick-as-parapsychology. Suggestion as means of social control. Hence its "natural" manifestation in the body of one of the world's most powerful telepathes.

The only thing I can't rationalize -- why Jean and not Xavier? Perhaps Chuck has too strong a will?
 

Volunteer Fire Detective

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I agree with Guijllons. I think Jean should just be a going through a serious "mental" stage in her powers. Perhaps a lot of stress on her from outside (dunno what it could be) causes her to just break down and her mind just completely unleashes its full force that Charles has been holding back, thus creating the Phoenix. Perhaps she could still destroy a galaxy or three, but I think it would really distinguish her charater from the 616 version by making the Phoenix less of a cosmic entity and more of a psychological bi-product of Jean's unstable psyche.
 

Hi-Fi

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Guijllons said:
No aliens, no solar system, no mystical spirit forces.

Honestly, I would like Jean to just be ****ing bugnut crazy. I don't want it to be a universe changing event, more of a huge mutant event played from Scott's perspective.

Agreed. I think Jean should reach her powers limits and become completely crazy an powerful.

And please, no aliens, no cosmic entity!
 

DIrishB

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UltimateE said:
After seeing that Kirkman plans on advancing the Phoenix plot somewhat during his run, I'm curious as to what people want to see happen with it/her/them.

I personally want to see the Dark Phoenix saga Ultimized. At least the part where she goes crazy and destroys a solar system. They can leave out the whole Maddy Prior being a clone of Jean Grey. :roll:

Interesting. And I agree, no clones, period. Including in Ultimate Spider-Man.

Nas-T! said:
I'd like to see it go the way of the Spider-Man Clone Saga!! Hehe! Nah, I think they could seriously work with this new Phoenix idea. But one thing EVERY writer that writes for the Ultimate Universe needs to understand is that this is a universe of new possibilities.
It's like Kirkman said about everyone waiting for Ultimate versions of the 616 stories. That is lame and THAt is why I didn't want Gwen to die in the UU. There was more potential for her as Peter's big sister or whatever, than as dead meat for him to feel guilty over. Now we've just got another boring Gwen guilt trip Peter in another, younger universe!

Anyway, enough Gwen whining from me! Back to Phoenix:

I'd like them to make Ultimate Phoenix (the entity) an ancient Goddess type thing instead of a cosmic being. But now this entity has apparently possessed Jean Grey and is guiding her and using her for a purpose...but what purpose? (okay, I concede that we know all that already!).
So we cut to the ancient past when the Hellfire Club was formed by a group of aristocrats who wanted to attain power by bringing the Phoenix to life on Earth or whatever. They kidnapped a young woman named Madelyn Pryor and had the Phoenix possess her, but it had too much power for her feable human mind to contain, so she died or went insane instead.
The Hellfire Club just continued to exist throughout the centuries until now when they finally found the perfect host for the Phoenix in Jean. At first they tried to aid it in possessing her over long range (hence her prior insanity and such) but then, when that failed and time was running out, they simply hooked up with Charles Xavier cos he knew Jean and they slowly worked their way into getting the Phoenix into Jean.

The Phoenix became fond of Jean and started to provide her power upgrades and the like, but whenever she tapped into said upgrades (like when the X-Men faced Spiral) she also tapped directly into The Phoenix itself, and its thirst for vengeance (kinda like The Spectre at DC). You see, it wants to burn away whatever is wrong with the world/universe, and now its idea of right and wrong has been altered by Jean's perceptions.
Eventually, someone attacks Cyclops and shoots him. It looks like he's dead so Jean goes psycho on that person, tapping into The Phoenix. The Phoenix suddenly assumes total control over Jean and then goes on the hunt for all those people Jean would have seen as being 'wrong'. It could even confront Wolverine and try to kill him.
The problem would be that, as it is using Jean, the Phoenix is also eating away at her body, slowly killing her human form. Eventually Jean would be on the ropes and, at the moment of her death, The Phoenix would do what it did in legend. It would fly off to a secret location, burn itself alive, and then come back in a new form. The Phoenix itself would be free while Jean would be reborn (but still as Jean Grey).

Anyways...those're my Phoenix ideas that I just made up here, right now.

Nas

I like some aspects of that.

Guijllons said:
No aliens, no solar system, no mystical spirit forces.

Honestly, I would like Jean to just be ****ing bugnut crazy. I don't want it to be a universe changing event, more of a huge mutant event played from Scott's perspective.

But I like that better.

Bass said:
As for Ultimate Phoenix - I couldn't care less. I think, if they do anything with her, she could possibly become an extinction-level threat to rival Magneto that the X-Men have to put down. No aliens, just her versus the world. She goes crazy and ****. I dunno. I just don't care. If they do it, I just want it to be good.

I agree. Naturally, the Ultimates will be called in. Assuming they still exist at that point.
 

E.Vi.L.

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I'd prefer to wait for the final verdict concerning Thor before resolving the Phoenix.

Is or isn't Thor the god of Thunder? Because if he ain't, I don't see why Jean gets to be possessed by a goddess of some sort. If Thor's nuts, then so should be Jean.
 
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DIrishB

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E.Vi.L. said:
I'd prefer to wait for the final verdict concerning Thor before resolving the Phoenix.

Is or isn't Thor the god of Thunder? Because if he ain't, I don't see why Jean gets to be possessed by a goddess of some sort. If Thor's nuts, then so should be Jean.

I agree, but then again it would be redundant (Ultimately speaking) to have both a Thunder God and a cosmically-possessed telepath in the same universe (though they've been doing it in 616 for years).
 

E.Vi.L.

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Oh, if Thor is the real god of Thunder, Jean can still just be nuts.

But Thor is nuts, then so should be Jean.
 

Guijllons

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Well I don't think Thor is nuts and I do think Jean should be. Well, Thor may be a little bit nuts.

Can't have two mad people turning out to be possessed/the product of deities in the UU. I think it was a poor show by Millar to use the same trick twice in the first place.
 

DIrishB

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Guijllons said:
Well I don't think Thor is nuts and I do think Jean should be. Well, Thor may be a little bit nuts.

Can't have two mad people turning out to be possessed/the product of deities in the UU. I think it was a poor show by Millar to use the same trick twice in the first place.

Very true. Course we don't know the truth about either yet, but he did rehash the same approach.
 

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