What do you want to see in the Ultimate Universe when it is relaunched

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
The Ultimate Universe is more or less being reluanched now that Ultimatum is over, as noted by this article:

http://www.examiner.com/x-16178-New...-in-era-of-change-for-Marvels-Ultimate-Comics

So my question is, now that the Ultimate universe has more or less being relunched, what do you want to see what of it? I will start:

1. Tighter story telling, in recent years in the UU went away from its mission statement of having a fairly simple continuity, telling tales that became more and more convoluted. The UU managed to become also as convoluted as the 616 universe, only it took 40 years for that to happen to the 616 universe, with the UU it happened in 8 years. If they are going to continue with the UU, they should avoid these convoluted stories.

2. Better characterization, Loeb more or less did away with any of the interesting twist Millar gave to Marvel heroes in the UU (Loeb ruined the characterization of Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Valkyrie and many others). Plus many Ultimate villains have been flat characters since day one (Electro). If the Ultiamte line is to continue, they did give these characters more interesting twists.

3. More new blood in regards to writing talent. It seems like the UU over relies on Millar, Bendis and to lesser extent Ellis. Some of the best UXM stories occured when BKV was writing the title, the UU would far more diverse if they hired new good writers (not Loeb) to write for them, like Brubaker, Slott or Fracation. Imagine how much better Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum would have been if any of those 3 had been writing it, instead of Loeb.

4. Fire Loeb, this needs no explaination.
 

Seldes Katne

Site mom
1. Continuity across and within titles. Hire an editor (or two) to oversee the entire line. (Hint: The job description would include actually reading the books.) Generate the characters' backgrounds, power levels, etc. ahead of time and stick to them consistently, unless a writer has an absolutely rock-solid reason for changing something.

2. A five-year plan. Have some idea where you want the UU and the individual characters/titles to be in five years and lay the stories out accordingly. (Go watch the Babylon 5 series to see how this can be done properly.)

3. Mini-series should be stand-alone events, not used to resolve something set up in one of the main titles. Limit cross-overs. Guest appearances are all right, but at all costs avoid the big, mind-boggling, universe-shattering, "everyone and his canary are involved" multi-title events. (After House of M, Civil War, World War Hulk, [Not-So-] Secret Invasion and now Dark Reign, about the only Marvel stuff I still read are mini-series and one-shots. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of "Big Events".)
 

Jaggyd

The member formerly known as skotti-chan
1. Continuity across and within titles. Hire an editor (or two) to oversee the entire line. (Hint: The job description would include actually reading the books.) Generate the characters' backgrounds, power levels, etc. ahead of time and stick to them consistently, unless a writer has an absolutely rock-solid reason for changing something.

2. A five-year plan. Have some idea where you want the UU and the individual characters/titles to be in five years and lay the stories out accordingly. (Go watch the Babylon 5 series to see how this can be done properly.)

3. Mini-series should be stand-alone events, not used to resolve something set up in one of the main titles. Limit cross-overs. Guest appearances are all right, but at all costs avoid the big, mind-boggling, universe-shattering, "everyone and his canary are involved" multi-title events. (After House of M, Civil War, World War Hulk, [Not-So-] Secret Invasion and now Dark Reign, about the only Marvel stuff I still read are mini-series and one-shots. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of "Big Events".)



Exactly, and totally what she said.


(oh and to the 5-year plan, they already have JMS working for them, why can't he be an editor and show them how to do the big planning?)
 
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The Overlord

Well-Known Member
1. Continuity across and within titles. Hire an editor (or two) to oversee the entire line. (Hint: The job description would include actually reading the books.) Generate the characters' backgrounds, power levels, etc. ahead of time and stick to them consistently, unless a writer has an absolutely rock-solid reason for changing something.".)

Good idea, though after all the damage that Loeb did, changing the stuff he changed in the first place would an "Author's Saving Throw" more then anything else: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.Ptitlehr8d6bdwnwsk

3. Mini-series should be stand-alone events, not used to resolve something set up in one of the main titles. Limit cross-overs. Guest appearances are all right, but at all costs avoid the big, mind-boggling, universe-shattering, "everyone and his canary are involved" multi-title events. (After House of M, Civil War, World War Hulk, [Not-So-] Secret Invasion and now Dark Reign, about the only Marvel stuff I still read are mini-series and one-shots. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of "Big Events".)


I agree, I am sick of crossover events in general, at this point I would prefer some smaller more off beat character focused stories, not every story has to be some epic saga. I think it be better if USM stuck to sub plots that developed the supporting cast and main plots that developed the new cast, rather then Clone Saga stories. Some of the best UXM stories were the fairly off beat ones told by BVK.

Also perosnally I would prefer if bendis didn't focus on villains who were already overexposed in USM and try to flesh out some of the underdeveloped ones, but that's just me. I have beating this drum for a long while.

Anyway here's an interesting question, all the characters who were killed in Ultimatum, it be better if most or all of them stayed dead or should they be brought back?
 
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Jaggyd

The member formerly known as skotti-chan
Anyway here's an interesting question, all the characters who were killed in Ultimatum, it be better if most or all of them stayed dead or should they be brought back?

Honestly, at this point, I think they should either use Wanda/Magda or Jean to completely reboot the universe, or scrap the current 1610, and move to a new universe. Or hell, have it be a Dallas-style dream sequence.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Honestly, at this point, I think they should either use Wanda/Magda or Jean to completely reboot the universe, or scrap the current 1610, and move to a new universe. Or hell, have it be a Dallas-style dream sequence.

Perhaps that would be the best path, in regards to trying to revitalize the UU, Ultimatum was a cure that was far worse then the disease, as noted by the article I posted.

But that's unlikely to happen and I guess we have deal with the UU we have now and see if there is anything worth salvaging.
 
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The Overlord

Well-Known Member
OK, let's focus on some positives here. Yes Ultimatum was a bad story, perhaps one of the worst ever. But perhaps some good stories can come out of the fallout from Ultimatum.

Spidey and the Ultimates can deal with looters and have live in a world with far fewer heroes to count on, a more dangerous world. There's a wealth of good stories that can come out of that concept, in the hands of the right writer (not Loeb), if Bendis, Millar and Ellis play their cards maybe they can make some good stories out of this line again.
 

Friday

Well-Known Member
Good Comics.

Good Writers.

Good Artists.

The feeling of structure.

We had all of that 3 years ago.

You dropped the ball Marvel. Pick it back up and run.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
OK, let's focus on some other interesting aspects of the new UU, with Doom, Magneto and Gobby all dead, maybe they can focus on some different villains in the UU, instead of the same ones that over exposed in the 616 universe.
 
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Mattimeo84

Well-Known Member
This is more what I want for Spider-Man, but the premise can be used Universe wide.

Create a brand new villain. Start from scratch, give us back story, give us characterization. Don't recycle old villains just so fanboys can wet themselves over B-Listers like Kaine or Swarm finally being Ultimized.

Batman has Joker, Shelock Holmes has Moriarty, Mario has Bowser, Continuity has Loeb. Give Spider-Man a proper arch nemesis in the Ultimate Universe (We already wasted Green Goblin, Venom, and Doctor Octopus).

If an original villain can't be done, take a really obscure villain and make them mainstream (Basilisk). Combine two villains is a careful/tasteful way (Shadrac and Tracer). When all else fails, bond a symboite to an obscure hero (Solo).
 
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The Overlord

Well-Known Member
This is more what I want for Spider-Man, but the premise can be used Universe wide.

Create a brand new villain. Start from scratch, give us back story, give us characterization. Don't recycle old villains just so fanboys can wet themselves over B-Listers like Kaine or Swarm finally being Ultimized.

There is an Ultimate Swarm and Kaine, so making Ultimate versions of them would be redundant. :D

There is a little problem, after 60 years of comics, how can you create a villain that is truly new? How many new villains have there been since the 80s that were original concepts and have had any sort of lasting impact? What kind of powers or gimmick can you give this new villain that hasn't been done a million times already?

Batman has Joker, Shelock Holmes has Moriarty, Mario has Bowser, Continuity has Loeb. Give Spider-Man a proper arch nemesis in the Ultimate Universe (We already wasted Green Goblin, Venom, and Doctor Octopus)..

I don't think those characters were wasted at all, Ock is still alive, they can still use him and most of stories were good, ditto with Venom and Gobby actually got a good spend off, so I didn't have a problem with his death. Heck they could make a new Goblin villain by introducing Ultimate Roderick Kingsley. Kingpin was also used well.

I just think it would be good to give them a little break. Anyway it seems like Bendis is setting up ultimate Mysterio be Spidey's new nemesis, which could be very interesting.


If an original villain can't be done, take a really obscure villain and make them mainstream (Basilisk). Combine two villains is a careful/tasteful way (Shadrac and Tracer). When all else fails, bond a symboite to an obscure hero (Solo).

Or they can work with some of the villains they already introduced (Vulture, Sandman and Electro) and give them more character development. I mean the characters are already there, you might as well work with them.

As I noted, many times in the past, Mr. Freeze was a lame character, till Bruce Timm gave him a better motive in BTAS. There are no bad characters, only bad writers.

Also I wouldn't mind seeing what Bendis would do with Ultimate Shocker at this point.
 
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Mattimeo84

Well-Known Member
Ok, Swarm I remember, from Ultimates 2, but where is Kaine?

EDIT: That crappy clone was Kaine? OK, so the two I said were already in the Series, but the meaning is the same.

And I could agree with them retooling the existing B listers (or C listers) that the UU already has, if they actually take the time to do it right.

As for Green Goblin, he was introduced in 1964 for the 616 Universe. He has been a threat for the past 45 odd years. He was arround for only 8 in the UU before he was killed off (as was Hobgoblin). At least in 616, the mantle could be picked up by someone else and wa-la, Green Goblin is still there. He was wasted (not under utilized, just killed off too soon).

Venom wasn't used well enough to me. Carnage was wasted.

Doc Ock is still alive, but hasn't been a real, arc spanning threat. He just seemed to pop up when Shocker wasn't around.
 
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The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Ok, Swarm I remember, from Ultimates 2, but where is Kaine?

Ultimate Clone Saga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaine#Ultimate_Kaine I dislike Kaine as a concept, so I wouldn't want to see much of him in the future.

Anyway I would agree that Kaine and Swarm are too minor to be important villains in the UU, but I think there are already tons of underdeveloped villains in USM that could become major villains, with a little good writing.
 

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