The Overlord
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What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Universe?
What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Universe
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
You make a lot of great poll-type threads but you never put polls on them.
You make a lot of great poll-type threads but you never put polls on them.
The Overlord
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
I forget, you can add a poll now.
You make a lot of great poll-type threads but you never put polls on them.
I forget, you can add a poll now.
Joe Kalicki
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
Marvel Adventures isn't really a univese, but it is really awesome, except the Fred Van lente stuff, which I really don't care for. Jeff Parker's Avengers is the best.
The Ultimate Universe is a universe with a shared continuity, and even though I have my problems with it and always have, I'm really attached to it and if only one line could exist I'd still prefer UU to MA.
Marvel Adventures isn't really a univese, but it is really awesome, except the Fred Van lente stuff, which I really don't care for. Jeff Parker's Avengers is the best.
The Ultimate Universe is a universe with a shared continuity, and even though I have my problems with it and always have, I'm really attached to it and if only one line could exist I'd still prefer UU to MA.
Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
ON TOPIC E!
gosh.
answer the darn question!
I'd still say the Ultimate Universe. Simply for Ultimates V. 1+2, UXM Issues 1-50, and USM Issues 1-70-ish.
ON TOPIC E!
gosh.
answer the darn question!
I'd still say the Ultimate Universe. Simply for Ultimates V. 1+2, UXM Issues 1-50, and USM Issues 1-70-ish.
The Overlord
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
All that is a valid argument, but on the other hand, Adventures hasn't imploded in on itself yet.
At this point I bet Adventures could do an Apcoalypse storyline far better than the one we got in UXM. Heck X-Men Evolution's Apocalypse Saga was better than the one in UXM and Evolution was a Sat morning cartoon, that's sad.
All that is a valid argument, but on the other hand, Adventures hasn't imploded in on itself yet.
At this point I bet Adventures could do an Apcoalypse storyline far better than the one we got in UXM. Heck X-Men Evolution's Apocalypse Saga was better than the one in UXM and Evolution was a Sat morning cartoon, that's sad.
Joe Kalicki
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
Marvel Adventures Apocalypse would be a one issue storyline where he wants to take over the world because he's upset he got the wrong flavor ice cream at Baskin Robbins.
You know they can't even show guns in MA comics.
Marvel Adventures Apocalypse would be a one issue storyline where he wants to take over the world because he's upset he got the wrong flavor ice cream at Baskin Robbins.
You know they can't even show guns in MA comics.
The Overlord
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
I realize that, but like I said X-Men Evolution was a Sat morning cartoon (i.e: no guns, no blood, etc) its version of Apocalpyse was way better then Kirkman's. The UXM Apocalypse story was so disappointing that a Sat morning cartoon outshined it, adventures Apocalypse would likely be better because at least the story wouldn't be so convoluted and it might have ending that wasn't disappointing. If the adventures Apocalypse story doesn't end with a massive reset, it will be better.
I realize that, but like I said X-Men Evolution was a Sat morning cartoon (i.e: no guns, no blood, etc) its version of Apocalpyse was way better then Kirkman's. The UXM Apocalypse story was so disappointing that a Sat morning cartoon outshined it, adventures Apocalypse would likely be better because at least the story wouldn't be so convoluted and it might have ending that wasn't disappointing. If the adventures Apocalypse story doesn't end with a massive reset, it will be better.
Foolsfolly
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
Change UXM to 1-60ish (all of Vaughan's run) and I totally agree.
Change UXM to 1-60ish (all of Vaughan's run) and I totally agree.
Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
the concept of apocalypse in UXM was not bad. in fact, a lot of the ideas used in the Ultimate comics after those i listed are not bad IDEAS- they were just executed poorly, for one reason or another (rushed, bad dialogue, simply not fully realized, too much emphasis on action, no action, etc.)
the idea of a guy who may or may not be crazy, seeing his "master" who orders him to kill, and then manifests this "master" as his dominant personality is not a bad idea. heck it wouldnt have even been bad if he was more like the 616 shadow king and was an ancient spirit who was trying to possess sinister... but in the end, the idea was just poorly executed. heck, cable taking professor x into the future to train him was not a bad idea- it just amounted to nothing, rendering the entire cable arc moot- prof. x and cable did jack ****, and the day was saved by phoenix.
i maintain that the problem is not in the ideas, but the execution.
this having been said, i think a problem with MA is that the stories are very simplified to appeal to a younger audience. it is harder to write a story with emotional drama and high stakes (e.g. potential death) and the like when your audience is the 6-12 crowd. they may be able to tell good stories, but ultimately their scope has to be limited.
the concept of apocalypse in UXM was not bad. in fact, a lot of the ideas used in the Ultimate comics after those i listed are not bad IDEAS- they were just executed poorly, for one reason or another (rushed, bad dialogue, simply not fully realized, too much emphasis on action, no action, etc.)
the idea of a guy who may or may not be crazy, seeing his "master" who orders him to kill, and then manifests this "master" as his dominant personality is not a bad idea. heck it wouldnt have even been bad if he was more like the 616 shadow king and was an ancient spirit who was trying to possess sinister... but in the end, the idea was just poorly executed. heck, cable taking professor x into the future to train him was not a bad idea- it just amounted to nothing, rendering the entire cable arc moot- prof. x and cable did jack ****, and the day was saved by phoenix.
i maintain that the problem is not in the ideas, but the execution.
this having been said, i think a problem with MA is that the stories are very simplified to appeal to a younger audience. it is harder to write a story with emotional drama and high stakes (e.g. potential death) and the like when your audience is the 6-12 crowd. they may be able to tell good stories, but ultimately their scope has to be limited.
Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
o yeah. forgot vaughan's run. my b. (i didnt have any of my comics handy... it was a guesstimate.)
o yeah. forgot vaughan's run. my b. (i didnt have any of my comics handy... it was a guesstimate.)
The Overlord
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
The problem is, that a Sat morning executed the Apocalypse story better than Kirkman did! There's a problem when a Sat morning cartoon can do stories better then you do. It seems to me the UU would have been better if it ended after ultimates Vol. II, the UU is losing all the good will they built up in 7 years, with one really bad year of story telling.
Frankly something aimed at kids and competentely done is far better then a total mess aimed at adults, which is Toy Storty II will always be a better movie then Blade III.
The problem is, that a Sat morning executed the Apocalypse story better than Kirkman did! There's a problem when a Sat morning cartoon can do stories better then you do. It seems to me the UU would have been better if it ended after ultimates Vol. II, the UU is losing all the good will they built up in 7 years, with one really bad year of story telling.
Frankly something aimed at kids and competentely done is far better then a total mess aimed at adults, which is Toy Storty II will always be a better movie then Blade III.
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
but MA, and Xmen Evolution for that matter, have not been all good stories!
some are good, some are bad. that's the way it goes.
taken as a whole, i still maintain that the UU has told, cumulatively, better stories than the MA stories. that's UP TO this point.
if you mean, with the issues that are out RIGHT NOW, AT this point, then yeah, MA is probably better. Ultimates has lost all its former glory, as has UXM and UFF's Warren Ellis glory. USM is still going strong, but MA, as far as Im aware, retells old stories for kids (with some modifications). And if you have years of back-stories to choose from, and can pick and choose, you'll be better than if your stories ignore continuity as in the Ultimates, or rewrite it, as Kirkman did in UXM.
But on the whole, the UU still has been a better universe for me. The early stories FAR outweigh the poor stories of today. MA has been done competently and for kids, both claims which you stated, but in my opinion, it has never exceeded expectations to the extent that the UU has.
but MA, and Xmen Evolution for that matter, have not been all good stories!
some are good, some are bad. that's the way it goes.
taken as a whole, i still maintain that the UU has told, cumulatively, better stories than the MA stories. that's UP TO this point.
if you mean, with the issues that are out RIGHT NOW, AT this point, then yeah, MA is probably better. Ultimates has lost all its former glory, as has UXM and UFF's Warren Ellis glory. USM is still going strong, but MA, as far as Im aware, retells old stories for kids (with some modifications). And if you have years of back-stories to choose from, and can pick and choose, you'll be better than if your stories ignore continuity as in the Ultimates, or rewrite it, as Kirkman did in UXM.
But on the whole, the UU still has been a better universe for me. The early stories FAR outweigh the poor stories of today. MA has been done competently and for kids, both claims which you stated, but in my opinion, it has never exceeded expectations to the extent that the UU has.
The Overlord
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Re: What is better at this point: the Ultimate Universe or the Marvel Adventures Univ
Yes, but when a sat morning cartoon can do a story better than a professional comic book writer then there is a problem. Yes like everything Evolution had good and bad stuff, but it still handled Apocalypse better then Kirkman did and it was Sat morning cartoon! That's not a good reflection on the current UXM.
That's a fair point, that I won't disagree with, overall the UU would be better then Adventures, considering the good stuff from the first couple of years.
The point I'm making, is, at this point, after Loeb and Kirkman adventures would be better, because of all the garbage that has happened. I think its sad that something aimed at kids is better written that Loeb and Kirkman's efforts.
I mean Ultimates 3 is aimed at adults and Avengers adventures is aimed at kids, but i think we can all agree that Avengers adventures is better then Ultimates 3, because smary sex jokes don't make a book more "mature", they are in fact quite childish.
Yes, but when a sat morning cartoon can do a story better than a professional comic book writer then there is a problem. Yes like everything Evolution had good and bad stuff, but it still handled Apocalypse better then Kirkman did and it was Sat morning cartoon! That's not a good reflection on the current UXM.
That's a fair point, that I won't disagree with, overall the UU would be better then Adventures, considering the good stuff from the first couple of years.
The point I'm making, is, at this point, after Loeb and Kirkman adventures would be better, because of all the garbage that has happened. I think its sad that something aimed at kids is better written that Loeb and Kirkman's efforts.
I mean Ultimates 3 is aimed at adults and Avengers adventures is aimed at kids, but i think we can all agree that Avengers adventures is better then Ultimates 3, because smary sex jokes don't make a book more "mature", they are in fact quite childish.
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