Who Would You Pick?

[Guijllons]

That's not a realistic outlook. Vaughn has used Colossus' sexuality a lot in the last arc for one. The powers of rogue were always twitchy, and Vaughn has tidied them up appropriately. Millar's run on the X-Men was not his strongest work by any stretch.

I can see changes in the Ultimates, like any writer would produce. But to say that it will all fall in line with the 616 universe is pretty naive. The UU has some strict guidelines, they get annoyingly nudged on occasion (Bendis is as guilty as any), but there is a framework. And I feel that Millar's framework, although not the most solid, is immensely influential to the following writer. I'd even say, intimidating.

 

[jtg3885]

If you honestly think that the UU isn't getting pushed along by the outside influences of 616 (particularly popular pairings) and the movieverse, you're incredibly naive.

And we're not going to start a new one on whether Piotr is queer or not.

 

[Guijllons]

Either I 'm naive, or you're mistaken.
One of the two.

 

[jtg3885]

C'mon, Logan and Ororo kiss in a recent 616-verse comic, and suddenly Ororo is over Beast, making moves on Logan, and leaving the team to chase him? You're going to tell me that's just coincidence?

 

[Guijllons]

I'm gonna say it's an outside influence and isolated.

 

[jtg3885]

Alright, what about Rogue then? Rogue's powers weren't an inconsistency, that's how she was written. Then suddenly, new author, she's back as either 616 or movieverse Rogue with no control, and all bundled up. Then we get Rogue/Bobby straight out of the movies, and within an arc or two, she's hopped onto Gambit, ala 616. Those all coincidences too?

 

[compound]

C'mon, Logan and Ororo kiss in a recent 616-verse comic, and suddenly Ororo is over Beast, making moves on Logan, and leaving the team to chase him? You're going to tell me that's just coincidence?

It's called "moving on". Some people do that, y'know...

Vaughn seems to have put a lot of thought and effort into developing the relationship between Wolvie and Storm, with a definite starting point (their bonding during the "Tempest"/Sinister arc), a credible advancement (both choosing to be more open and vulnerable, emotionally, during "Cry Wolf"), and presumably resolving their fate as a couple, during the next arc.

Their pairing is far more interesting and believable and multi-dimensional than anything Bendis or Millar were able to do with Logan. If that happens to be in sync with events in 616, I say, so what? It's a good subplot. Run with it.

 

[jtg3885]

I'm saying that given the writers of UXM seem to feel the need more than ever to leech from their 616 counterparts, I'd be afraid to see someone else take over the Ultimates. Who knows, we might get Ultimates 3 and then Ultimates: Disassembled. As far as things go, Millar is certainty with that title. I know what I'm getting. Same with Hitch. Replace either or both of them, and you lose that certainty. And I'm not sure I'd pay the cover price for something I'm not certain I'll like.

 

[Guijllons]

Alright, what about Rogue then? Rogue's powers weren't an inconsistency, that's how she was written. Then suddenly, new author, she's back as either 616 or movieverse Rogue with no control, and all bundled up. Then we get Rogue/Bobby straight out of the movies, and within an arc or two, she's hopped onto Gambit, ala 616. Those all coincidences too?

No control is core to rogue's character. Bobby was available and appropriate. The Rogue/Gambit storyline was going to happen from the very beginning. Are you saying that Scott and Jean getting together, and there being some tension between Jean and Logan is a convergence too? That Xavier being bald is too much a step to 616? That Stark is an alcoholic is too close?

Certain things will remain, there is no convergence conspiracy, it's a different universe, with different rules. Not different people.

 

[jtg3885]

*shrugs* Whatever floats your boat man. I liked UXM better under Millar, and I reckon if Ultimates goes to a new writer, it'll go down the toilet. You've read my reasons why. You're not required to agree.

 

[Guijllons]

Yeah, I'm enjoying Vaughn's run most so far. And I do share concerns that the Ultimates won't be as good. But yeah, I don't agree with your reasoning for that.

 

[The Captain]

i think the series should end....but i think morrison, vaughn and whedon could all do a nice job...id like to see cassiday on the art...

 

[Guijllons]

I don't think Whedon is up to the job personally. He does a fine job on Astonishing, but that's a lot more lightweight and populist than this book.

 

[Caduceus]

I don't think Whedon is up to the job personally. He does a fine job on Astonishing, but that's a lot more lightweight and populist than this book.

As much as I love Astonishing, I agree that Whedon isn't suited to the Ultimates. Its just not his style.

 

[ourchair]

I liked UXM better under Millar, and I reckon if Ultimates goes to a new writer, it'll go down the toilet.

I pretty much agree, jtg. Millar and Hitch is the ONLY team I want on this book, which surprises even me as I try to avoid ANY kind of sentence with the words "is the ONLY team I want on this book" as its predicate.

But much to our chagrin, Marvel is realistically NOT going to let Ultimates go, even if the idea of Millar coming back every 3 years to generate it as "seasons". This question isn't about whether or not we want Millar to stay, it's about us thinking about which writer would best handle a franchise that Marvel does NOT want to put to rest in Millar's absence. Who would we tolerate or appreciate in spite of seeing Ultimates laid to an ideal state of rest?

It's a lot like Star Trek from the past 20 years: As much as the franchise was left best in the hands of Roddenberry, Paramount was not going to let it go without him. And fans had to put up with it. And as much as they'd like the franchise to die, debates still continue as to who contributes best to its growth in spite of the fact that it is better off laid to rest.

 

[compound]

I can't believe I only considered this possibility just now -- Howard Chaykin (American Flagg) on both writing and art duties. Thematically, he seems like a good fit on Ultimates.

Granted, for some, his visual approach might be just too "old school" for Ultimates (though I beg to differ -- see the book designs for A Mighty Love and Challengers of the Unknown, 2004) -- in which case, I think he could be paired with Niko Henrichon (his collaborator on Barnum), or Stuart Immonen (working in his Superman:Secret Identity style).

 

[fantomex]

i would have to say Vaughn and Marc Silvestri. would be my picks

 

[DigiEmissary]

I don't think Whedon is up to the job personally. He does a fine job on Astonishing, but that's a lot more lightweight and populist than this book.

I think that Whedon would be great on the book if he could channel Season 5 of Angel.

I also agree that similarities with the 616 for the sake of similarities are bad. Write the UU characters as themselves, not as modernized 616ers. There's been enough time for differences to develop.

 

[Guijllons]

I see much of Buffy and Angel in Astonishing, that's what he does best. All these wise cracking, happy go lucky characters in the face of certain doom by a replaceable villain has a place in comics, do doubt. As for creating real intrigue, of the kind that keeps us on our toes like Millar is doing. It's not his forté.

I would insist on someone that is very grounded in the real world to take over. Someone not really associated with high action superhero books at all.

 

[compound]

I would insist on someone that is very grounded in the real world to take over. Someone not really associated with high action superhero books at all.

What about novelist Jonathan Lethem, author of Fortress of Solitude? He's obviously a HUGE comic book fan.

Or ...Kavalier & Clay (sp?) author Michael Chabon, who clearly knows his real-world history, as well as the history of comics (as a medium *and* an industry)?