Y - The Last Man (upcoming FX series)

[DIrishB]

About damn time:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/y-last-man-fx-series-taps-showrunner-947225

 

[wyokid]

Finally!

 

[DIrishB]

The alt-right are going to hate this show, lol.

 

[wyokid]

The alt-right are going to hate this show, lol.

Nah, they'll praise it for the same reason "feminists" hate the comic. It shows women as flawed and that a female run society would be just as successful as it was in Mad Max: Fury Road, not at all. I don't get why anyone would think half the world's population disappearing would have good results lol

 

[DIrishB]

Nah, they'll praise it for the same reason "feminists" hate the comic. It shows women as flawed and that a female run society would be just as successful as it was in Mad Max: Fury Road, not at all. I don't get why anyone would think half the world's population disappearing would have good results lol

Dude, you literally just created a hell of a false narrative there.

First, half the world's population dying off wouldn't have good results, as the comic CLEARLY SHOWED.

It was a story whose entire backdrop was built on rebuilding after that devastation.

Further, you seem to have completely ignored the fact by story's end, the female run society had largely become a utopia, whereas NOTHING in the Mad Max films went beyond post apocalyptic, dystopian nightmare. False equivalency theater is becoming common place with you, it seems.

Nowhere, anywhere, did Vaughan or Y - The Last Man portray the men dying off as a good thing. It merely showed an inverse of the patriarchal society that has shaped our world from the very beginning.

Seriously, man, when you have to lean on BS arguments like you just did there, your position isn't worth defending.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Nowhere, anywhere, did Vaughan or Y - The Last Man portray the men dying off as a good thing. It merely showed an inverse of the patriarchal society that has shaped our world from the very beginning.

I think that was Wyo's point...

Seriously, man, when you have to lean on BS arguments like you just did there, your position isn't worth defending.

I know you and Wyo have a rapport, and you argue about stuff all the time, but you can be a bit harsh DIB. Maybe argue your point without insulting him.

 

[wyokid]

Dude, you literally just created a hell of a false narrative there.

A quick Google search was all you needed. There are SEVERAL sites and people that claim the work to be sexist against women because everything goes to crap in the hands of women. Likewise, some praise it for the work of feminism it actually is. Really, the biggest problem is that Ephraim Goodweather's son in The Strain enjoys it

Kid is an a-hole in the books, comics, and the show. Doesn't deserve Brian K. Vaughn's work in my opinion.

First, half the world's population dying off wouldn't have good results, as the comic CLEARLY SHOWED.

It was a story whose entire backdrop was built on rebuilding after that devastation.

Further, you seem to have completely ignored the fact by story's end, the female run society had largely become a utopia, whereas NOTHING in the Mad Max films went beyond post apocalyptic, dystopian nightmare. False equivalency theater is becoming common place with you, it seems.

Nowhere, anywhere, did Vaughan or Y - The Last Man portray the men dying off as a good thing. It merely showed an inverse of the patriarchal society that has shaped our world from the very beginning.

Seriously, man, when you have to lean on BS arguments like you just did there, your position isn't worth defending.

In Mad Max the Green Place, or whatever it was called, was barren and dry because the women didn't take care of it and squandered their resources. You're so ready to argue that you don't read what I write.

I don't get why anyone would think half the world's population disappearing would have good results lol

I literally said it wasn't a good thing that all the men died.

 

[DIrishB]

I think that was Wyo's point...


I know you and Wyo have a rapport, and you argue about stuff all the time, but you can be a bit harsh DIB. Maybe argue your point without insulting him.

I didn't insult him. I pointed out his claim was BS, but that isn't insulting him, but his assertions. Specifically these:

It shows women as flawed and that a female run society would be just as successful as it was in Mad Max: Fury Road, not at all. I don't get why anyone would think half the world's population disappearing would have good results lol

The first is a false narrative completely. Y - The Last Man was a story of the surviving women pulling society OUT OF the post apocalyptic disaster of all the males dying. It's literally the exact inverse of Mad Max, where mankind played a direct role in destroying the world, as opposed to a virus or curse or whatever (can't remember if they ever established what caused the males to die off in Y) wiping out the males. One is an act of man, one is an act of God/nature/happenstance.

He's relying on a false equivalency, hence my point that the claims, based on such a false equivalency, are inherently BS

My aim is never to hurt anyone's feelings, and wyo knows me well enough to understand that. I can be harsh and a dick at times. Just who I am, but it's not motivated out of an attempt to hurt anyone's feelings, and just an impatience and low capacity for BS.

A quick Google search was all you needed. There are SEVERAL sites and people that claim the work to be sexist against women because everything goes to crap in the hands of women.

Lol, there's a lot of crap on Internet. Much of it is idiotic, as any claim Y - The Last Man being labeled as sexist or misogynist. Them claiming its due to "everything goes to crap in hands of women" is idiotic. It's literally the exact opposite of what the series portrays. Does it portray the characters as humans with foibles and faults? Yes, as it should. Does it show society crumbling due to being run by women? No. Not one bit. Overall, more building and reclamation of the society that was lost is portrayed than the down side. And that's my point. That entire argument is based on a completely false premise.

This says it best:

Maybe I don't have the right to comment on it but I considered it to be have feminist values. Unfortunately those values were muted and in the background.
The story showed all these societies and how they managed to get back on their feet and in some ways even thrive after some time without men. The women's correctional facility that became a peaceful and well ordered town would seem to be supporting strong independent women. We can also look at the re-establishment of the federal government and the rail system as indicative of a feminist society. Even the Amazons, while they were a caricature and an ludicrously extreme version, were a portrayal of feminism.

I think Dr. Mann and Agent 355 were strong and well developed characters. Agent 355 was significantly tougher than Yorick and saved his life on multiple occasions. Ultimately Dr. Mann saves the human race by developing clones.

I get why people might not see the story as overly feminist since the focus was the last man on Earth but given that the story was focused on the last man on Earth I think women were portrayed as running the gamut between strong and crazy and just strong.

And that's just it. It attempted to realistically portray the fact women, just like men, have different opinions, personalities, motivations, fears, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

And despite those human foibles and some taking wrong path, overall the women rebuilt the world and saved the human race... how anyone can twist that into a message of anti-feminism is ludicrous to me.

Likewise, some praise it for the work of feminism it actually is.

Right. And that's what it was intended as (partially). Some people will ***** about anything (those claiming its an attack on women).

Really, the biggest problem is that Ephraim Goodweather's son in The Strain enjoys it

Kid is an a-hole in the books, comics, and the show. Doesn't deserve Brian K. Vaughn's work in my opinion.

Lol, never seen The Strain so I'll take your word for it.

In Mad Max the Green Place, or whatever it was called, was barren and dry because the women didn't take care of it and squandered their resources. You're so ready to argue that you don't read what I write.

Or, it was barren and dry because of the world wide drought caused by nuclear war. I read what you wrote. Maybe I need to watch it again but I don't remember that ever being said in the film. Regardless, it's literally the exact opposite of what's occurring overall in Y - The Last Man.

I literally said it wasn't a good thing that all the men died.

The point was NO ONE CLAIMED half the men dying would have good results. I don't even know where you're pulling these assumptions from...

Hence my ENTIRE POINT about relying on BS arguments/comparisons.

You're literally comparing a post apocalyptic dystopian nightmare future in Mad Max with a series all about rebuilding society, and while it has its somber moments overall is buoyed by an undeniable sense of hope.

Ultimately it's a comparison that doesn't make much sense in that regard.

You see what I'm saying?

 

[wyokid]

In Y: The Last Man it's a virus created by man. I was saying that modern "feminists" don't read the actual work and blast it as misogynistic because the men die and it doesn't turn into a Gilman novel.

 

[DIrishB]

In Y: The Last Man it's a virus created by man.

Oh that's right, wasn't it by Dr. Mann's father? I need to go back and re-read it, it's been awhile.

I was saying that modern "feminists" don't read the actual work and blast it as misogynistic because the men die and it doesn't turn into a Gilman novel.

Well, in a way it does parallel Herland in some ways, specifically the ending which utilizes cloning (asexual reproduction) and approaching a somewhat utopian society, though admittedly distinctive in that their aim is to bring back the men by cloning Yorick as opposed to the approach of intentional female parthenogenesis in her books. It certainly isn't same, so I agree, but it does follow some of the same parallels while ultimately subverting them in a positive way by story's end.

Also, I still cry like a ***** in the Ampersand death scene. Right in the feels with a cattle prod.

 

[Ice]

Oh that's right, wasn't it by Dr. Mann's father? I need to go back and re-read it, it's been awhile.

It's been years since I read it, but wasn't it left open to interpretation because there was another possible reason as to the cause of the virus?

 

[wyokid]

Oh that's right, wasn't it by Dr. Mann's father? I need to go back and re-read it, it's been awhile.



Well, in a way it does parallel Herland in some ways, specifically the ending which utilizes cloning (asexual reproduction) and approaching a somewhat utopian society, though admittedly distinctive in that their aim is to bring back the men by cloning Yorick as opposed to the approach of intentional female parthenogenesis in her books. It certainly isn't same, so I agree, but it does follow some of the same parallels while ultimately subverting them in a positive way by story's end.

Also, I still cry like a ***** in the Ampersand death scene. Right in the feels with a cattle prod.

Like I said, they don't actually read it.

 

[DIrishB]

It's been years since I read it, but wasn't it left open to interpretation because there was another possible reason as to the cause of the virus?

That's how I remembered it. It wasn't definitively linked to Dr. Mann's father, just floated that as another possibility, same as with the icon 355 stole at beginning of series, and a couple other potential reasons I think. Again, I have to re-read it too.

Like I said, they don't actually read it.

Apparently not.

 

[E]

I didn't insult him. I pointed out his claim was BS, but that isn't insulting him, but his assertions.

But it's close enough and now allowed. Be nice. That's all.

It's been years since I read it, but wasn't it left open to interpretation because there was another possible reason as to the cause of the virus?

Yes. There were about 4-5 different possibilities and everyone thought BKV would give the definitive answer as to which one it was at the end of the last issue and that didn't happen. In fact, he very coyly stated that the answer was given, he just never definitively said which one it was. Some people weren't happy.

 

[Ice]

Yes. There were about 4-5 different possibilities and everyone thought BKV would give the definitive answer as to which one it was at the end of the last issue and that didn't happen. In fact, he very coyly stated that the answer was given, he just never definitively said which one it was. Some people weren't happy.

I liked that it was done like that, without him outright stating which one it was. It worked for this story.

 

[DIrishB]

But it's close enough and now allowed. Be nice. That's all.

What can I say? I'm too old to sugar coat, and never too shy to speak my mind.

 

[E]

What can I say? I'm too old to sugar coat, and never too shy to speak my mind.

You can say, "Okay, I can rebut without resorting to name calling."

 

[DIrishB]

You can say, "Okay, I can rebut without resorting to name calling."

But, I didn't name call. I didn't call wyo any names. I merely pointed out there was a false narrative and false equivalency being pushed, which was true. I think I explained my point pretty clearly, maybe I'm wrong. But are we not allowed to point out falsehoods? Point out when a claim is being pushed that simply isn't true? Specifically in regards to the stories of Y - The Last Man and Mad Max being COMPLETELY different in regards to the circumstances of their respective "apocalypse events", as well as the fact one was a story about pulling the world out of it (Y) and the other was about merely surviving in it (Mad Max).

I'm trying to avoid an illogical conflation, and yes, I called the point BS as a result. That isn't meant to insult wyo, nor did I, but instead his argument. I am not resorting to ad hominem attacks on the person, merely the points he's making, as debates should be handled.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I know I can be an abrasive jerk, but I'm not trying to hurt peoples' feelings, only utilize logic to point out holes in his point. Nor did I call him any names. I don't know why people keep saying that when its untrue. Not trying to start anything or argue, but I do feel I have a right to defend myself and my points.