"Young Ultimates": SHIELD training super-powered minors?

compound

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"Young Ultimates": SHIELD training post-human minors?

FACT: Peter Parker is currently the subject of SHIELD monitoring. He is effectively being forced to join the Ultimates when he turns 18.

INFERENCE: If SHIELD can insist that a high-profile teenage superhero with a (relatively) loving and stable home environment must join the Ultimates, then chances are, they are probably eyeing other super-powered adolescents with less-than-satisfactory home-lives, offering them food and shelter, in exchange for training, loyalty, and service to the nation -- a kind of "reserve corps" for the Ultimates.

So who might be included on this list of under-18 super-soldiers? I would place Ultimate versions of the (616) New Warriors at the top of this list. Some possible recruits:

Angelica Jones (a.k.a. Firestar; pyrokinetic; "white trash" background; puts up intellectual front to over-compensate for lower-class upbringing; idolizes Black Widow, who is the group's trainer)

Robbie Baldwin (a.k.a. Speedball; quantum motion; "emo boy"; whiny; patterned after Conor Oberst/Bright Eyes, or Chris Carraba/Dashboard Confessional)

Dwayne Taylor (a.k.a. Night Thrasher; martial arts skills; rides a tricked-out "segway"; orphaned heir of a nanotech development firm; spoiled rich kid with 'bling-bling' sensibilities; resembles a teenage version of The Rock or Vin Diesel)

Other choices:

Sam Guthrie (a.k.a. Cannonball; flight and invulnerability; "hayseed"/country boy; polite 'southern gentleman' attitude often causes his more urbane team-mates to assume that he's a simpleton)

Barnell Bohusk (a.k.a. Beak; bird-like appearance; razor-sharp talons; limited flight; ineffectual Dutch punk rocker with an inferiority complex the size of a Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet)
 
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Friday

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While I doubt that SHIELD would be able to draft Barnell, I've got no doubt that they've got taps on any up and comings they can, especialy those with high profiles like Peter.

I've got my doubts on making Spider-man an Ultimate though. If anything he'd be working behind the scene, like The Falcon was, or if he's absolutly got to be a mainline member then a new public identity will need to be fashioned as the Spider-Man brand name is more than likely too tarnished in the Ultimate world to be taken legitimatly. It's not like 616 where JJs crazy rantings have been going for over a decade, and people just shrug it off. This crazy guy is swinging around, has been wanted in connection with murders and bank robbings, and god only knows what else.
 

jtg3885

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Firestar, Cannonball and Beak are mutants and would be shunted to Xavier's control. Speedball and Night Thrasher, I don't know if the mental blocks are mutation or not, but unless Speedball's powers are artificially induced, he'd be off to Xavier's as well.

So just one out of the five there would go straight to SHIELD. The only people who could really train a group of "Young Ultimates" would be the regular Ultimates or Xavier, and seeing as how the Ultimates were formed to protect the world, not baby-sit their Mini Mes, that really only leaves Xavier. Or Emma Frost... but after the debacle with the New Mutants, I doubt they'd call upon her.
 

compound

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jtg3885 said:
Firestar, Cannonball and Beak are mutants and would be shunted to Xavier's control. Speedball and Night Thrasher, I don't know if the mental blocks are mutation or not, but unless Speedball's powers are artificially induced, he'd be off to Xavier's as well.

SHIELD is clearly not above recruiting mutants to serve as undercover agents, spies, or black ops, if not outright Ultimates affiliates -- Wasp is the most prominent example, but there's also Karma from the New Mutants arc. (Hehe, perhaps Fury has a 'thing' for Asian girls. :? )

In all seriousness, Karma would acutally make quite an excellent trainer for a group of teenage Ultimate resevists, because if they refused to 'get with the program', her mind-control abilities could be used to keep them in check.

Oh, and Speedball got his powers from an industrial mishap involving a portal into a dimension that has alternative laws of physics -- well, at least in 'mainstream' continuity. [ /geekery ]


jtg3885 said:
The only people who could really train a group of "Young Ultimates" would be the regular Ultimates or Xavier, and seeing as how the Ultimates were formed to protect the world, not baby-sit their Mini Mes, that really only leaves Xavier.

Fair enough. But I seriously doubt that there is no intermediate group (in terms of firepower) between SHIELD's human agents/soldiers and the world-saving Ultimates. I suspect there must a second-tier project involving super-powered beings; the apparent proliferation of young post-humans seems like a convenient and resourceful way to activate that kind of initiative.

Besides, I don't think we've seen the full extent of staff on SHIELD's payroll -- they might have other super-powered operatives in their employ, capable of training a "Young Ultimates"... Scott Lang perhaps, or even Greer Grant.
 
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jtg3885

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Yes, SHIELD does employ mutants. Wasp, Karma, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, etc. But those are voluntary. And all legal adults. You seem to be forgetting WHY Peter is being forced into service, and it's that reason that would allow the mutants you suggested to attend Xavier's and then flip SHIELD the bird. Fury's orders only extend to the unnatural. Mutants are an act of God, and therefore, out of his jurisdiction, until they go and do something spectacularly stupid like Magneto or the Brotherhood did.

EDIT: I don't recognize Grant, but Lang's powers stem from Hank Pym. And while Hank has been shown using the Ant Man technology, there's no indication whether or not he turned it over, and if so, that it's been put to use.
 
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ourchair

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Baxter said:
I've got my doubts on making Spider-man an Ultimate though. If anything he'd be working behind the scene, like The Falcon was, or if he's absolutly got to be a mainline member then a new public identity will need to be fashioned as the Spider-Man brand name is more than likely too tarnished in the Ultimate world to be taken legitimatly. It's not like 616 where JJs crazy rantings have been going for over a decade, and people just shrug it off. This crazy guy is swinging around, has been wanted in connection with murders and bank robbings, and god only knows what else.

True. The contrast you provided between the "brand value" of the Spider-Man name in 616 and Ultimate is a pretty insightful point.

On the other hand, it doesn't matter in whether or not Spider-Man does indeed decide to get on the SHIELD payroll. Nor does it matter in what capacity (shadow ultimate, public defender) he decides to serve them. The important point here is that SHIELD does indeed monitor posthuman activity, "war of genetics" and all that.

But in all the discussions I've had with compound, I realize that some of our ideas run the risk of oversaturating the SHIELD monopoly on posthuman activity. I think the Young Ultimates (I'd rather call them "Warriors", but that's the title of an upcoming USM arc so that goes out) should be under the jurisdiction of either another government group that wants to have a private superhuman group (possibly to wage a future political war against Fury) or as an extension of Millar's ideas of foreign nations jealous of the US's status as a "superhuman" power...

If "superhuman jealousy", like "nuclear jealousy", can manifest in foreign nations like the Middle East and Korea shouldn't it manifest within small special interest factions within the US itself?

and jtg, I don't think SHIELD defines his jurisdiction between "acts of god/mutants" and "altered humans". Nevermind the fact that some altered humans are also "acts of god" as Octopus and Spider-Man, products of industrial accidents that they are, are clearly in that category.

Also, Xavier does not have exclusivity rights on mutant recruitment. Nor would EVERY mutant almost always opt to join Xavier over SHIELD (or any other potential supergroup for that matter). Perhaps most mutants will indeed flip SHIELD the bird and join Xavier, but what's to stop them from flipping the bird on Charles and joining someone else, as well?
 

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Well, my question to anyone who feels the need to entertain it is why isn't Fury sending Peter off to Xavier's? I mean, according to all of you, it's because he's not a mutant, however, Fury explicitly said that the estate would be exclusive to training super soldiers, Spider-Man possibly being one of them, correct? Think of it as the Baxter Building for muscles instead of brains, if you will. I don't know, that's just what Fury should be doing, or, if not at the mansion, have his own little shelter as Comp pointed out... I'm right there with you, Comp! ;) You're brilliant, man.
 

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ourchair said:
and jtg, I don't think SHIELD defines his jurisdiction between "acts of god/mutants" and "altered humans". Nevermind the fact that some altered humans are also "acts of god" as Octopus and Spider-Man, products of industrial accidents that they are, are clearly in that category.

SHIELD's authority is limited to Illegal and Unnatural Genetic Mutations. Mutants are natural and thus can't be compelled into SHIELD service. For more information, look at parts of USM around the end of the Goblin's reappearance where Fury explains the situation to Peter. I'd fill you in but I don't hate the issues handy.

ourchair said:
Also, Xavier does not have exclusivity rights on mutant recruitment. Nor would EVERY mutant almost always opt to join Xavier over SHIELD (or any other potential supergroup for that matter). Perhaps most mutants will indeed flip SHIELD the bird and join Xavier, but what's to stop them from flipping the bird on Charles and joining someone else, as well?

At the moment, Xavier's school is the only officially sanctioned mutant school/training area. Basically, SHIELD or Xavier or illegal. Risky mutants are pushed into one of the three
 

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Also, whose job is it to round up these mutants? Xavier's? Fury's? I'd like to see something like this explored...
 

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Caduceus said:
SHIELD's authority is limited to Illegal and Unnatural Genetic Mutations. Mutants are natural and thus can't be compelled into SHIELD service. For more information, look at parts of USM around the end of the Goblin's reappearance where Fury explains the situation to Peter. I'd fill you in but I don't hate the issues handy.



At the moment, Xavier's school is the only officially sanctioned mutant school/training area. Basically, SHIELD or Xavier or illegal. Risky mutants are pushed into one of the three
Oh then my complete bad then. :p

But I recall the issues you mention. I forgot about how clear Bendis was at getting Fury to make that distinction. It also makes sense, I suppose, because making "natural born posthumans" part of SHIELD's jurisdiction would constitute a violation of Constitutional rights.
 
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Caduceus

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Its still an interesting concept but Peter Parker is not really the one to play it out with. SHIELD's authority is pretty well established and well defined and they've already got him on the radar. You'd need to run through with another I&UGM to see what happens and how they end up on SHIELD's radar (because you know they would) and how they go about either staying off it or joining up with them
 

jtg3885

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Goodwill said:
Well, my question to anyone who feels the need to entertain it is why isn't Fury sending Peter off to Xavier's? I mean, according to all of you, it's because he's not a mutant, however, Fury explicitly said that the estate would be exclusive to training super soldiers, Spider-Man possibly being one of them, correct? Think of it as the Baxter Building for muscles instead of brains, if you will. I don't know, that's just what Fury should be doing, or, if not at the mansion, have his own little shelter as Comp pointed out... I'm right there with you, Comp! ;) You're brilliant, man.
Because Peter sorta skirts around the rules, since he was altered against his will. He's technically an IUGM, but unless he turns criminal, Fury is leaving him to his own devices, so that Peter can have as normal a childhood as possible. Besides, it's been explicitly stated that when Peter turns 18, Fury owns his ***. Peter is not 18 yet. Ergo, Fury can't control Peter.
Goodwill said:
Also, whose job is it to round up these mutants? Xavier's? Fury's? I'd like to see something like this explored...
Why would anyone be responsible for rounding up mutants? Xavier's is a school that you get into by invitation (although I'm sure SHIELD can push Xavier into taking students that they want trained). SHIELD is dealing with illegal unnatural genetic mutants. Therefore, there's nobody around whose job it is to deal with the general mutant population.
 

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jtg3885 said:
Why would anyone be responsible for rounding up mutants? Xavier's is a school that you get into by invitation (although I'm sure SHIELD can push Xavier into taking students that they want trained). SHIELD is dealing with illegal unnatural genetic mutants. Therefore, there's nobody around whose job it is to deal with the general mutant population.
Ooooh, gotta agree. That's a good point.
 

jtg3885

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icemastertron said:
Ooooh, gotta agree. That's a good point.
Well, think about it. Supposedly, 10% of the population is LGBTQ. That seems a little generous for mutants... let's even make it 1%. Or even 0.5%. That's either 2,950,000 mutants or 1,475,000 mutants in the United States alone. Trying to make one organization responsible for that would be nuts. Hell, trying ANYTHING to round up and train all the mutants would be insane, no matter how much money and personnel you throw into it. It's just flat out impossible.
 

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jtg3885 said:
Well, think about it. Supposedly, 10% of the population is LGBTQ. That seems a little generous for mutants... let's even make it 1%. Or even 0.5%. That's either 2,950,000 mutants or 1,475,000 mutants in the United States alone. Trying to make one organization responsible for that would be nuts. Hell, trying ANYTHING to round up and train all the mutants would be insane, no matter how much money and personnel you throw into it. It's just flat out impossible.
Oooh these acronyms are a headache. But anyway, it's not just statistics that keeps SHIELD or any other organization from placing mutants within their jurisidiction: It's the fact that monitoring too much mutant activity would be a violation of the civil rights of mutants as individuals. The fact that the President has decided to step away from the "mutant issue" and approach it with the kind of liberal indecisiveness as politicians would the "gay issue" helps support this.

Of course, SHIELD DOES monitor them in the same way they broke the rule that "it's illegal for the American government to spy on Americans on American soil." but in any case, mutants as a public case for them wouldn't be realistic from both the statistic sense as you've pointed out, and in the legal sense.
 

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ourchair said:
Oooh these acronyms are a headache.
LOL. For those of you who just sorta blinked at it, LGBTQ stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, and Questioning. Quite a mouthful. :)
 

ourchair

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I figured that much out. Isn't "Q" supposed to be "queer"? (And I don't mean that term in any derogatory sense).
 

thee great one

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Hey I have a idea, how about Bendis starts writing The Ultimates and write a story called Ultimates Disassembled. Then he can add Spider-Man into the Ultimate New Ultimates. It just a idea.
 

ourchair

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thee great one said:
Hey I have a idea, how about Bendis starts writing The Ultimates and write a story called Ultimates Disassembled. Then he can add Spider-Man into the Ultimate New Ultimates. It just a idea.
Ugh, you're being sarcastic right? I hope you didn't get the inspiration for this idea from the fact that compound calls this team "Young Ultimates"
 

thee great one

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You don't understand it a good idea to have the Ultimate New Ultimates because Bendis can put Wolverine on the team. Wolverine just isn't Wolverine till he on more than 1 team. Then because Bendis is writing Ultimates. Miller can write a mini involving Wolverine. The Ultimates Disassembled is a good idea because that way Scarlet Witch will actually do something other than grinding with her brother. :lol:
 

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