Marvel Heroes Strategy Board Game

Re: Marvel Heroes

This game just came out and I was wondering if anyone else is playing it. I'm finding it to be far more strategic than I had ever hoped. Finally, a superhero boardgame that's not designed for 10 year olds!

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/14808

Eh, it looks kind of lame.

Marvel Heroscape seems pretty cool, as another option, mainly because it has stackable 3D terrain.

But nothing beats Heroclix mainly because its the only miniatures game with a scale-sized Galactus, Sentinel, Dark Phoenix, etc. They make DC pieces too, but who cares about those? ;)
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

Eh, it looks kind of lame.

Marvel Heroscape seems pretty cool, as another option, mainly because it has stackable 3D terrain.

But nothing beats Heroclix mainly because its the only miniatures game with a scale-sized Galactus, Sentinel, Dark Phoenix, etc. They make DC pieces too, but who cares about those? ;)

¬¬

I would love to buy some of those miniatures, but i lack the money to do so.
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

Eh, it looks kind of lame.

Marvel Heroscape seems pretty cool, as another option, mainly because it has stackable 3D terrain.

But nothing beats Heroclix mainly because its the only miniatures game with a scale-sized Galactus, Sentinel, Dark Phoenix, etc. They make DC pieces too, but who cares about those? ;)

Lame? I don't think you understand what the game is, judging by your words. It's NOT Heroscape or Heroclix and isn't trying to be anything like that. Those are pure combat games. This game is about running your team of 4 heroes to get the job done. Maybe you want the Human Torch to take care of an incident in Central Park with the Thing's help while Mr Fantastic stays behind to do more research for future help when more trouble arises. It's a game with a plot. :) I've only played twice so far, but I think it's great. We let one kid in on one of our games and I don't think he liked it. I'm sure he expected the game to be like the usual american trash and was taken off guard by having to actually think and plan. :)

Heroscape looks good when it's set up, but it's not worth it. It's a major hassle to set the game board up and the gameplay is very juvenile.

Heroclix is pretty good, but I don't like how most people play it. By that I mean that I think it totally takes away from the game to just devise a great 300 pt team of any old characters. You want a 300 pt X-MEN team or a 300 pt ALPHA FLIGHT team, then we're talking my cup of tea. It's greatest failing is that it's collectible. That tends to be the kiss of death with me. I do like the game, but I don't have much opportunity to play it.

While we're talking superhero games, I like VS a lot. Yes, it's collectible and yes, I was a sucker and bought a lot of cards, but now I sit back with what I own and have a good time with it. One of the best CCG systems out there, although I confess that it really doesn't capture the superhero theme as well as I'd like. It DOES beat any other superhero CCG that's ever been made, hands down.
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

Heroclix is pretty good, but I don't like how most people play it. By that I mean that I think it totally takes away from the game to just devise a great 300 pt team of any old characters. You want a 300 pt X-MEN team or a 300 pt ALPHA FLIGHT team, then we're talking my cup of tea.

Agreed. I'm all about the theme teams. In fact, I only play at home with friends merely so I don't have to deal with someone's DC/Marvel/Indy mess of random characters.

It's greatest failing is that it's collectible. That tends to be the kiss of death with me. I do like the game, but I don't have much opportunity to play it.

Not sure how the collectibility aspect of it is a kiss of death. For most thats just the opposite.

While we're talking superhero games, I like VS a lot. Yes, it's collectible and yes, I was a sucker and bought a lot of cards, but now I sit back with what I own and have a good time with it. One of the best CCG systems out there, although I confess that it really doesn't capture the superhero theme as well as I'd like. It DOES beat any other superhero CCG that's ever been made, hands down.

Eh, I always liked the miniatures games merely because you had a physical 3D representation of the character to use. I liked Heroclix in particular because not only do they have a huge selection of characters (and different versions of those characters) to choose from (literally hundreds, if not thousands by now). It also included the relevant game statistics in the dials, thereby combining the best aspects of a CCG and CMG into one.

As for a "plot" to the game, Heroclix has that too. Just play a scenario instead of a straight up battle. There are over a dozen official scenarios available, as well as countless fan-created scenarios available online.

In my opinion, Heroclix hasn't been beat...yet. And it never will be as long as they have an in-scale Galactus piece.
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

Not sure how the collectibility aspect of it is a kiss of death. For most thats just the opposite.

Most?! Who is "most"?! There are absolutely plenty of people who go for the idea, but I'm not sure what they represent the most of. You don't understand why collectibility can equal death? Anyone who has to pay bills does. :) Seriously, collectible games are enormous money pits. Why would anyone willingly WANT to be blowing wads of money? Sure, you may really enjoy playing the game, and that's fine, but would you enjoy it less if you could simply go out and buy a set that contained the clix for all of the founding members of the Avengers (as you might do with Heroscape)?

Eh, I always liked the miniatures games merely because you had a physical 3D representation of the character to use.

Ah... you realize that VS is a card game, right? If you're saying you prefer miniatures battles to card games, that's fine, but it sort of sounds like you think Heroclix is better because it's 3D and that doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean who would expect a card game to be 3D? :)

As for a "plot" to the game, Heroclix has that too. Just play a scenario instead of a straight up battle. There are over a dozen official scenarios available, as well as countless fan-created scenarios available online.

A plot?! Oh please!!! Having a tactical goal in the combat is not a plot. Heroclix is a fun game, but it only represents the fight scenes in the comics, not the pages in between.

In my opinion, Heroclix hasn't been beat...yet. And it never will be as long as they have an in-scale Galactus piece.

Considering nobody has even tried to beat Heroclix yet, I am forced to agree with you. Marvel Heroscape will be it's first competitor. It may do better with young children, but it's not going to put Heroclix out of business by any means.
 
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Re: Marvel Heroes

Most?! Who is "most"?! There are absolutely plenty of people who go for the idea, but I'm not sure what they represent the most of. You don't understand why collectibility can equal death? Anyone who has to pay bills does. :)

I get the "why", Chief. And do me a favor and don't presume. I manage to pay my bills (mortgage, insurances, utilities, etc) and have no problem with it, personally, and I definitly don't make large mounds of cash.

Seriously, collectible games are enormous money pits. Why would anyone willingly WANT to be blowing wads of money? Sure, you may really enjoy playing the game, and that's fine, but would you enjoy it less if you could simply go out and buy a set that contained the clix for all of the founding members of the Avengers (as you might do with Heroscape)?

Maybe, maybe not. The reality is, though, you'd never get anywhere close to as large a character selection as Heroclix has available with pre-packaged sets. And I love that fact. Like I said, I have hundreds of different characters in my collection, and thats only the Marvel clix, not DC or Indy.

Ah... you realize that VS is a card game, right?

Do you take me for an ignorant moron? Yes I realize its a card game.

If you're saying you prefer miniatures battles to card games, that's fine, but it sort of sounds like you think Heroclix is better because it's 3D and that doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean who would expect a card game to be 3D? :)

You need to read what I wrote before and see if you can comprehend it better the second time. And when it comes down to it, I like Heroclix better because it is 3D. I like the aspect of having a physical representation of the character, and as I said, even better since all the stats are right there in the dial. Thats just convenience, and who doesn't like that?

A plot?! Oh please!!! Having a tactical goal in the combat is not a plot. Heroclix is a fun game, but it only represents the fight scenes in the comics, not the pages in between.

Its more than a tactical goal when using the scenario cards (ie, know what you're talking about before you comment). They only came with the Map sets, so maybe you don't know what I'm talking about. But they did infuse as much "plot" as possible into the game of Heroclix itself. Without having played Marvel Heroes yet, I can't fairly compare.

Considering nobody has even tried to beat Heroclix yet, I am forced to agree with you. Marvel Heroscape will be it's first competitor. It may do better with young children, but it's not going to put Heroclix out of business by any means.

Agreed.

When it comes down to it, Heroclix's character selection, rules, and ability to actually be played within a 3D environment (custom made buildings, etc) just does it for me. I'll certainly give Marvel Heroes a try at some point, but from what I've seen and heard so far it doesn't seem to fill the requirements I prefer like Heroclix.
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

DIrishB said:
And when it comes down to it, I like Heroclix better because it is 3D. I like the aspect of having a physical representation of the character, and as I said, even better since all the stats are right there in the dial. Thats just convenience, and who doesn't like that?

This dialog is going downhill fast. I'm here to talk about Marvel Heroes and I'm prepared to deal with any issues which COMPARE another game to it. You jumped in, calling the game lame and went on to compare it to Heroscape and Heroclix... which is irrelevant. Our purposes aren't the same and clearly it's only irritating you because we're not on the same wavelength at all. Let's just drop it and move on.
 
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Re: Marvel Heroes

This dialog is going downhill fast.

It went downhill the moment you had to ask if I knew the difference between a card game and a miniatures game.

And really, all I was doing was comparing Heroes to those other miniatures games. I said it "looked" lame, mainly due to the extremely simplistic map.

I'm here to talk about Marvel Heroes and I'm prepared to deal with any issues which COMPARE another game to it. You jumped in, calling the game lame and went on to compare it to Heroscape and Heroclix... which is irrelevant.

I'm not sure which way you're leaning on this one. You say you're ready to compare with another similar game, yet when I do exactly that its irrelevant? Hmmmm....

Our purposes aren't the same and clearly it's only irritating you because we're not on the same wavelength at all. Let's just drop it and move on.

Please don't misconstrue my one negative comment (which I'll admit was ignorant of me without having played the game, however still relevant in that I think the map at least was a bit too simplistic...how it factors into the game mechanics is beyond me, not having played it, and may work extremely well). My purpose in coming into this thread and returning was in fact to learn more specifics about the game. How is it played? What are the basic dynamics, etc. Some of those you answered, which I appreciate. Some I hope to learn more about. If I were completely indifferent I wouldn't still be replying, let me put it that way.

I apologize if my negative comment ruined your day or something, but I was merely being honest and offering my opinion.
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

OK. You irritated me by calling the game lame with no comments to back it up. I irritated you by jumping to false assumptions based on comments that I thought were for comparison and were not. Now we're one big happy family again. :)

OK, I'll make a first pass at explaining what the game is like and then I'll try to focus on anything that anyone would like to more about.

You have a board with a map of New York City. It is rather... dry. However, it performs its function and to add much more to it would really just complicate things. The board/map's primary function is to show where there's trouble (robbery in Queens!, demon spotted in the Bronx!) and where the various heroes are who are trying to deal with it.

'Trouble' takes many forms, but primarily it tells you how high the Trouble level is there and how many VP you'll be awarded for taking care of it. Trouble also comes in various types and various heroes are better at dealing with different types of trouble (Reed's better when science is involved, Dr Strange is better when magic is involved). When you try to deal with Trouble, the level tells you how many dice to roll and after doing so you get your actual Trouble level which is then modified by things like Reed with science, etc. Let me back up one second. Each player in the game plays a team of four heroes and the mastermind villain of another player (and they all have very nice miniatures!). OK, so back to Trouble... after determining the actual Trouble level, the active villain player spends those points to pay for Villain cards to attack the hero(s) dealing with the Trouble. Maybe I spend 3 pts to bring out Venom and 2 pts to put Innocent Bystanders out. Battle commences and the heroes either walk away successful with some VP or they get a one-way ticket to their medical facilities.

Some headlines are designated as Mastermind headlines. These allow the villain player to do extra nasty things when buying Villain cards AND they can actually get themselves involved after the Trouble is dealt with. So in the previous example, right after dealing with Venom, you have to fight Dr Doom himself! When the heroes succeed against the Mastermind villain, they get to choose one of their team power-ups to use for the rest of the game (things like a Fantasticar). If they fail, the Mastermind gets one of his Master Plan cards which are essentially villain power-ups.

I've mentioned Villain cards, but there are also Resource cards. There are a number of nifty helpful cards in there, but mainly you'll get Allies. These represent temporary team-ups. For example, maybe you'll draw She-Hulk and you can pay for her to hang out with you for a while. The primary method of getting Resource cards is to take a Story action which also adds story events into the game like "Gyrich takes away SHIELD backing from the Avengers". These also can cause minor VP gain so sometimes you'll be hesitant to go get more Resource cards when you can see that you'll help another team's story and give them VP.

All of this doesn't come without cost and this is where the heart of the game lies. At the beginning of a turn you'll earn Plot Points. These points are then used to activate your team members and recruit Allies. For example, I might get 4 Plot Points on a turn. Then, I pay two points to ready Daredevil and Elektra, another point to put Dr Strange in a supporting position, and one more to recruit Black Cat temporarily. I don't have enough points to use Spider-Man this turn so he's stuck on the sidelines. It's important to plan out who you really need for the turn and it's important to find ways to gain extra plot points for use in the future. The way the game is designed, you'll likely have your smaller guys running around at first and then in later turns you'll be bringing out Thor to get things done.

I don't want to get into what a supporting hero is too much, but suffice it to say it means the hero can help the ready heroes. Also, many character have good support powers you'll want to use. For example, Reed's support has him doing research and it will essentially let you draw 3 Resource cards... which is very nice.

So who's in the game?

Marvel Knights : Spider-Man, Daredevil, Elektra, Dr Strange : Kingpin
Fantastic Four : Reed, Sue, Thing, Torch : Doom
Avengers : Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk : Red Skull
X-Men : Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Wolverine : Magneto

And how do you win? Depends on the scenario you're playing, The basic scenario is Born Again and it's the first team to get to 15 VP, but there are about a dozen others like Inferno, Onslaught, House of M, The Coming of Galactus, Evolutionary War, etc.

OK, so I haven't talked about combat at all. Well I'm tired of typing! :) I'll do that later, but for now you can digest this and ask any questions which might come to mind.
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

OK. You irritated me by calling the game lame with no comments to back it up. I irritated you by jumping to false assumptions based on comments that I thought were for comparison and were not. Now we're one big happy family again. :)

Fair enough. But my comments were meant for comparison (maybe not in that first post, but those after)...just so there's no confusion.

OK, I'll make a first pass at explaining what the game is like and then I'll try to focus on anything that anyone would like to more about.

You have a board with a map of New York City. It is rather... dry. However, it performs its function and to add much more to it would really just complicate things. The board/map's primary function is to show where there's trouble (robbery in Queens!, demon spotted in the Bronx!) and where the various heroes are who are trying to deal with it.

'Trouble' takes many forms, but primarily it tells you how high the Trouble level is there and how many VP you'll be awarded for taking care of it. Trouble also comes in various types and various heroes are better at dealing with different types of trouble (Reed's better when science is involved, Dr Strange is better when magic is involved). When you try to deal with Trouble, the level tells you how many dice to roll and after doing so you get your actual Trouble level which is then modified by things like Reed with science, etc. Let me back up one second. Each player in the game plays a team of four heroes and the mastermind villain of another player (and they all have very nice miniatures!). OK, so back to Trouble... after determining the actual Trouble level, the active villain player spends those points to pay for Villain cards to attack the hero(s) dealing with the Trouble. Maybe I spend 3 pts to bring out Venom and 2 pts to put Innocent Bystanders out. Battle commences and the heroes either walk away successful with some VP or they get a one-way ticket to their medical facilities.

Some headlines are designated as Mastermind headlines. These allow the villain player to do extra nasty things when buying Villain cards AND they can actually get themselves involved after the Trouble is dealt with. So in the previous example, right after dealing with Venom, you have to fight Dr Doom himself! When the heroes succeed against the Mastermind villain, they get to choose one of their team power-ups to use for the rest of the game (things like a Fantasticar). If they fail, the Mastermind gets one of his Master Plan cards which are essentially villain power-ups.

I've mentioned Villain cards, but there are also Resource cards. There are a number of nifty helpful cards in there, but mainly you'll get Allies. These represent temporary team-ups. For example, maybe you'll draw She-Hulk and you can pay for her to hang out with you for a while. The primary method of getting Resource cards is to take a Story action which also adds story events into the game like "Gyrich takes away SHIELD backing from the Avengers". These also can cause minor VP gain so sometimes you'll be hesitant to go get more Resource cards when you can see that you'll help another team's story and give them VP.

All of this doesn't come without cost and this is where the heart of the game lies. At the beginning of a turn you'll earn Plot Points. These points are then used to activate your team members and recruit Allies. For example, I might get 4 Plot Points on a turn. Then, I pay two points to ready Daredevil and Elektra, another point to put Dr Strange in a supporting position, and one more to recruit Black Cat temporarily. I don't have enough points to use Spider-Man this turn so he's stuck on the sidelines. It's important to plan out who you really need for the turn and it's important to find ways to gain extra plot points for use in the future. The way the game is designed, you'll likely have your smaller guys running around at first and then in later turns you'll be bringing out Thor to get things done.

I don't want to get into what a supporting hero is too much, but suffice it to say it means the hero can help the ready heroes. Also, many character have good support powers you'll want to use. For example, Reed's support has him doing research and it will essentially let you draw 3 Resource cards... which is very nice.

So who's in the game?

Marvel Knights : Spider-Man, Daredevil, Elektra, Dr Strange : Kingpin
Fantastic Four : Reed, Sue, Thing, Torch : Doom
Avengers : Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk : Red Skull
X-Men : Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Wolverine : Magneto

And how do you win? Depends on the scenario you're playing, The basic scenario is Born Again and it's the first team to get to 15 VP, but there are about a dozen others like Inferno, Onslaught, House of M, The Coming of Galactus, Evolutionary War, etc.

OK, so I haven't talked about combat at all. Well I'm tired of typing! :) I'll do that later, but for now you can digest this and ask any questions which might come to mind.

Man, you could've written the rulebook.

Wow...does sound quite interesting, and noticeably different from Heroclix in terms of some key components. The rules do sound a bit complicated, but not overly so, and I can honestly say it seems like it would work, in terms of making it a deeper and more plot driven game, as you said. I look forward to playing it.

Thanks for the details, Jack!

On a side-note: not sure if it interests you or if you already know, but wanted to let you know they just finally made a Heroclix of your namesake, Jack of Hearts. He's a unique, but a fairly inexpensive one, both in terms of points and actual cost. Anyway, so you can at least check out his sculpt and stats:

Jack of Hearts - Heroclix Unique - Supernova #090
 
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Re: Marvel Heroes

Heh. That Jack sculpt looks kind of silly, but I might try to pick it up just because I obviously like the character (from WAY back in his Iron Man days). I do have a FEW uniques, but only because I got them in trades for other things. Well, okay, my girlfriend at the time bought me Warbird because she's another character I've always liked... but I digress.

Combat. Sheesh, this is not something I want to spell out in detail so I'll try to keep it short and do it justice...

A hero has a Ready power and a Support power. He has a Level and a KO rating. He also has three powers to use in combat. There are three phases in a combat round. One character attacks. The other attacks. Then there's the Outwit roll which determines the initiative for the next round. At the beginning of a round, both combatants secretly choose one of their three combat powers. These are really nothing more than dice allocations. For example, Hulk's smash power is 5 ATK 4 DEF 1 OUT. His earthquake power is 3 ATK 3 DEF 3 OUT. Choosing which power to use can be tricky. If I KNEW that the Hulk was going for smash, I might choose a power with a high DEF and decent OUT so I could stay alive and turn the tables on him next round. To further complicate matters, the heroes can have Allies help in a fight. Namor, for example, will give you a 5 ATK, so the Hulk could have chosen earthquake 3/3/3 and then used Namor to give him a 5/3/3 instead. Or another ally, Black Cat, lets you make your opponent re-roll if you didn't like what they rolled the first time. What else... oh, having a supporting hero lets your ready hero re-roll and ADD the results sometimes. And if you have two ready heroes, they can tag team every round, making it harder for the villain to take one of them down.

Villains can also have backup effects. Bullseye with a Surprise Attack... that's bad news for Elektra. Juggernaut with Fury (ignore a KO) just makes an unstoppable foe even scarier.

Sometimes, you'll even fight the Mastermind villain. They tend to have Henchman. Red Skull, for example, has Henchman 3. That means he always gets three random backup effects whenever he enters a fight. Yikes!

So... I think that ends my basic game description. Ask questions if anyone wants to!
============================================

Today I played the Avengers vs the Fantastic Four. We played the "Galactus is Coming" scenario. The game was fairly even when we entered what would obviously be the last turn. I didn't have many plot points so I readied the Hulk and Thor. I also had Black Cat and Luke Cage as allies. With my other cards, I planned to have the Hulk and Thor separately deal with Trouble to get me points and then group them together to take down Galactus for enough bonus points to clinch the game for me. But that's not how it panned out. The Fantastic Four readied the Thing and Reed and placed the Torch in Support. They had Black Widow as an ally. Their plan seemed to be to go for the highest Trouble (and highest VP) and with that much power, they'd be tough to stop. They grouped all three together to deal with a problem... and rolled a gigantic Trouble Level. I could play nearly anything I wanted and I HAD the cards for it. First, I picked the perfect villain for this fight... the Sentinels. They're perfect because they're one of the few villains who can hurt all of the other heroes besides the one they're fighting since they have a special power called Area Attack. On top of that, I was able to use that Trouble to give them Fury (can withstand an extra KO in the battle) and Innocent Bystanders (decreases the power of one of the opponent's die rolls). The Thing came charging out and rolled a decent attack, but didn't think it was good enough. He chose to use his 'Clobberin Time' power and re-rolled his attack. Disaster! The new roll REALLY stunk. The Sentinels rolled their defense and easily blocked it. Then they attacked. The Thing tried to ward off the blast, but was hit for 1 KO. The Sentinels then activated their Area Attack power, doing 1 KO to everyone. The Outwit roll was a dead tie... so the FF kept Initiative. The Thing managed to hit the Sentinels this time, but they used their Fury to shrug it off. They blasted and hit again... then used Area Attack again and wiped out the FF. The defeated heroes returned to the Baxter Building and now they had nobody to gather VP with. The Avengers could now take a more careful approach and gather their VP to win WITHOUT battling Galactus (whew!). It cost me 5 villain cards for that one fight (Sentinels, Fury, Innocent Bystanders, and two cards to fuel the Area Attacks), but it was worth it because it essentially bought me victory. A much happier game than the previous one where Bullseye kept murdering my Marvel Knights at will. :(
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

Heh. That Jack sculpt looks kind of silly, but I might try to pick it up just because I obviously like the character (from WAY back in his Iron Man days). I do have a FEW uniques, but only because I got them in trades for other things. Well, okay, my girlfriend at the time bought me Warbird because she's another character I've always liked... but I digress.

Agreed, the sculpt is definitly awkward looking. I'm kind of surprised, because the Clix sculptors have been working magic with the newer sets...even for the goofy looking and strange-costumed characters.

Combat. Sheesh, this is not something I want to spell out in detail so I'll try to keep it short and do it justice...A much happier game than the previous one where Bullseye kept murdering my Marvel Knights at will. :(

Geez...I'm quite impressed you were able to spell it all out so plainly. Also appreciative. Least when I do play, I'll have a pretty detailed ideas of the rules/turns/stats involved.

Can I ask where you bought it at? I'm just wondering where I might be able to pick one up locally, instead of having to order it online (would prefer to pay with cash as my credit cards are maxed due to Christmas shopping for family, friends, etc). Are they a comic/hobby shop exclusive deal, or will it be available at larger chain stores?
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

It's a gamer's game. You won't find it at a Toys R Us. :) Well, I guess you might one day...

My local comics/game store had it so I'm sure yours can order it too if they don't have it already. It's distributed by Fantasy Flight Games, a pretty big company if you're unfamiliar with them.
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

De gustibus non disputandem.

Honestly, I like collectible card games and collectible figure games. My only problem is that they release the new material so fast it's hard to keep up, but that's not something one can really begrudge because that aspect of it is ENTIRELY the point, and the fact that it's a profit-making money-sucking hole is not something one can pass a moral judgement on.
 
Re: Marvel Heroes

De gustibus non disputandem.

Honestly, I like collectible card games and collectible figure games. My only problem is that they release the new material so fast it's hard to keep up, but that's not something one can really begrudge because that aspect of it is ENTIRELY the point, and the fact that it's a profit-making money-sucking hole is not something one can pass a moral judgement on.

Too fast for you, maybe. ;)
 

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