Babylon 5

So last night I finished Season 3 of B5. What a cliffhanger.

Season 2 was pretty good. A lot of set-up, but with more pay-off than Season 1. Still can't tell which Captain I prefer, Sinclair or Sheridan. Of course, when you can get both like in the two-parter War Without End (and sort of Part 3 of Babylon Squared), its even better. That two-parter paid off a lot of stuff set up in Season 1, but also had an incredibly surprising ending. Sinclair is Valen...makes perfect sense in hindsight.

Season 3 really put the show on a much faster pace. Lots of action, intrigue, and the always delightful Londo moments (this is pretty much anytime Londo appears onscreen and says something awesome...which happens an awful lot). And Kosh...dead? Huh...didn't see that coming.

Gonna start Season 4 either tonight or in the next few days.
 
So last night I finished Season 3 of B5. What a cliffhanger.

It's so awesome. Garibaldi and Sheridan gone. Season 4 is just kick-ass.

Season 2 was pretty good. A lot of set-up, but with more pay-off than Season 1. Still can't tell which Captain I prefer, Sinclair or Sheridan. Of course, when you can get both like in the two-parter War Without End (and sort of Part 3 of Babylon Squared), its even better. That two-parter paid off a lot of stuff set up in Season 1, but also had an incredibly surprising ending. Sinclair is Valen...makes perfect sense in hindsight.

It so totally does. It's such a great twist.

Season 2 had THE COMING OF SHADOWS and IN THE SHADOW OF Z'HA'DUM! Come on!

Season 3 really put the show on a much faster pace. Lots of action, intrigue, and the always delightful Londo moments (this is pretty much anytime Londo appears onscreen and says something awesome...which happens an awful lot). And Kosh...dead? Huh...didn't see that coming.

No one did! It's in such a quiet episode too. And Londo is so awesome. And Refa! Damn.

Gonna start Season 4 either tonight or in the next few days.[/QUOTE]

Season 4 is such a roller coaster. Emperor Cartagia is absolutely brilliant.
 
This is funny because this is how a lot of people feel until about half way through season 2 and Sheridan gets his awesome stripes.

Seriously, prep yourself for the awesome that is THE COMING OF SHADOWS and IN THE SHADOW OF Z'HA'DUM...

Done and done. And both were pretty awesome. I'm also really enjoying the many biblical references in the show. Pretty cool how JMS was able to incorporate them, both subtley and obviously.


Long story and it was a confluence of events. Basically, the studio didn't like him and wanted him gone, but this only hastened what was going to happen anyway.

The major reason for him leaving was that JMS realised he'd simply got too many coincidental things happening with Sinclair, too much was happening to him and he needed to change up the characters. The original intention was to have Sinclair be slowly phased out over the first half of season 2 (within about six episodes) but they decided to just start off with him gone, and I believe that was O'Hare's idea. Apparently, it was mutual, and indeed, except for the bizarre schism between CHRYSALIS and POINTS OF DEPARTURE, the show never really misses a beat. But it's very clear, once you watch the rest of the show, that Sinclair couldn't have both his own ending and Sheridan's ending, which was the original intention before season 1 got started. And then there's all the stuff with Sakai that would've happened - I can't say much without spoilers. (By the way, I have the original pitch of what would've happened if Sinclair hadn't left the station, which I'll tell you when you're done.)

Very interesting. I like Sheridan, as said, within a few episodes it seems as if he'd always been there, no jarring changes really. But you do notice Sinclair's absence, all the moreso when you're reminded of it like in The Coming of Shadows (his vid message to Garibaldi filling him in on the Rangers). And I loved the War without End eps...



An interesting side-note relating to O'Hare's character Sinclair:

A B5 novel called "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" explains what happened to Sinclair between the Season 2 opener and his re-appearance in War Without End. The novel wasn't exceptionally great, but it is considered canon by JMS and at the very least offers an explanation for the progression of Sinclair from Commander of B5 to Minbari ambassador to Anla'shok to Entil'zha to Valen. Hell of a journey. But yeah, the book basically covers Sinclair's life during Season 2, and offers explanations also of what happened to Catherine Sakai (JULIA NICKSON IS SO FRIGGIN' HOT!!!) and Marcus Cole's joining the Rangers.

SPOILER:

Unfortunately, the novel ends with Catherine Sakai being lost in the Time Rift (the one Babylon 4 was caught in in Babylon Squared and War Without End) and Sinclair taking on his position as Entil'zha...War Without End would pick up a few months after the end of the novel. Its hinted at the end that after Sinclair travels back in time (as we saw in WwE, Part 1-2) and becomes Valen, he eventually finds Catherine.

And, fun fact: lots of B5 timelines out there that you can indulge in. :)

Indeed. I'm still trying to figure out JMS preferred order for the Season 1 episodes...most of the other Seasons are pretty straight-forward, but I've seen literally at least 5 or 6 variations for the S1 episode order.

THE COMING OF SHADOWS is exceptionally good, as is IN THE SHADOW OF Z'HA'DUM. There's some awesome, awesome stuff coming your way.

I'm very much enjoying the show. It works on a lot of levels, most notably its very smart, well-planned, and interesting. The characterization is great, the and the dialogue really has some memorable gems along the way.

It's so awesome. Garibaldi and Sheridan gone. Season 4 is just kick-ass.

Yeah, I noticed Garibaldi went missing at the end of S3. And Sheridan jumping into the abyss while the Whitestar destroys Za'ha'dum...man that was great.

It so totally does. It's such a great twist.

Season 2 had THE COMING OF SHADOWS and IN THE SHADOW OF Z'HA'DUM! Come on!

Fair enough. But Season 3's Passing Through Gethsemane was a great episode too. Loved how it balanced exploring religion with the question of what makes someone good or bad, as well as the argument of capital punishment. Plus, Brad Dourif is a personal favorite of mine...he's not a fantastically gifted actor, but I always enjoy seeing the guy in any role he plays, notably as the Doc in Deadwood.

No one did! It's in such a quiet episode too. And Londo is so awesome. And Refa! Damn.

It was a toned down episode, but there was a noticeable build up of suspense leading up to it. I was still shocked, especially considering how god-like the Vorlons had been portrayed in the show until that point.

Now that Kosh is dead, its interesting to see how the new Vorlon (the purple one...he refers to himself as Kosh as well, but I read online somewhere his name is Ulkhesh) on the station is reacting in comparison to Kosh's attitude. He seems a little less...patient with the other races? I guess thats the word. We'll see.


Season 4 is such a roller coaster. Emperor Cartagia is absolutely brilliant.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Londo positions himself in the next few seasons... also interested in seeing how G'Kar continues to develop, how Sheridan survives that fall, and just what happened to Garibaldi. Also can't wait to see how the Earth Alliance vs Interstellar Alliance thing plays out, and wondering how the Shadows are standing as a military force after the events of the Season 3 ender.


One more thing...loved the scene in the episode "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place" where Refa is about to be assassinated by the Narns, set to Gospel music. It was bizarre, memorable, and just plain fun. Man, I love this show.
 
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Very interesting. I like Sheridan, as said, within a few episodes it seems as if he'd always been there, no jarring changes really. But you do notice Sinclair's absence, all the moreso when you're reminded of it like in The Coming of Shadows (his vid message to Garibaldi filling him in on the Rangers). And I loved the War without End eps...

Watch your back, Michael.

Watch your back.

Breaks my heart he never got to say goodbye.

An interesting side-note relating to O'Hare's character Sinclair:

A B5 novel called "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" explains what happened to Sinclair between the Season 2 opener and his re-appearance in War Without End. The novel wasn't exceptionally great, but it is considered canon by JMS and at the very least offers an explanation for the progression of Sinclair from Commander of B5 to Minbari ambassador to Anla'shok to Entil'zha to Valen. Hell of a journey. But yeah, the book basically covers Sinclair's life during Season 2, and offers explanations also of what happened to Catherine Sakai (JULIA NICKSON IS SO FRIGGIN' HOT!!!) and Marcus Cole's joining the Rangers.

SPOILER:

Unfortunately, the novel ends with Catherine Sakai being lost in the Time Rift (the one Babylon 4 was caught in in Babylon Squared and War Without End) and Sinclair taking on his position as Entil'zha...War Without End would pick up a few months after the end of the novel. Its hinted at the end that after Sinclair travels back in time (as we saw in WwE, Part 1-2) and becomes Valen, he eventually finds Catherine.

All this I knew.

Also, originally, Sakai, a planetary surveyor, would've been given an assignment to check out an unknown planet on the outer rim.

That planet would've been Z'ha'dum.

And the guy who hired her would've been Morden.

You can see why JMS went, "That's too much" and then ingeniously gave a future story as backstory for Sheridan. But originally, Sakai would've been on Z'ha'dum telling Sinclair to join the Shadows.

Indeed. I'm still trying to figure out JMS preferred order for the Season 1 episodes...most of the other Seasons are pretty straight-forward, but I've seen literally at least 5 or 6 variations for the S1 episode order.

I didn't know there was an order other than the official one on the dvds.

CRUSADE, on the other hand – there is no way to watch CRUSADE without some continuity errors. You can have fun with that. (In actuality, if you watch CRUSADE, you'll hate it. But it's actually awesome. The problem is this; not only are their huge continuity problems due to the production problems they faced, but imagine, just imagine, if BABYLON 5 got cancelled and you never saw SIGNS AND PORTENTS. Imagine if B5 got cancelled before you saw Morden. That's what happened with CRUSADE. Once you discover what the show was really about, you'll go, "OMG. This could've been better than B5." I kid you not. But before the mind-blowing can work, you gotta sit through it once, cold, and go, 'ugh'.)

I'm very much enjoying the show. It works on a lot of levels, most notably its very smart, well-planned, and interesting. The characterization is great, the and the dialogue really has some memorable gems along the way.

Who are you?

What do you want?

Fair enough. But Season 3's Passing Through Gethsemane was a great episode too. Loved how it balanced exploring religion with the question of what makes someone good or bad, as well as the argument of capital punishment. Plus, Brad Dourif is a personal favorite of mine...he's not a fantastically gifted actor, but I always enjoy seeing the guy in any role he plays, notably as the Doc in Deadwood.

It's funny going back and watching that episode because it predates THE TWO TOWERS and DEADWOOD by five years, and so it's kinda weird seeing him in such a small role.

Speaking of roles and changes; don't know if you know, but Jeff Conaway (Zack Allan) just passed away a day or two ago. So of the main cast, Zack, Franklin, and G'Kar are all gone. Zathras too.

Now that Kosh is dead, its interesting to see how the new Vorlon (the purple one...he refers to himself as Kosh as well, but I read online somewhere his name is Ulkhesh) on the station is reacting in comparison to Kosh's attitude. He seems a little less...patient with the other races? I guess thats the word. We'll see.

If you recall, Kosh was also called Kosh Naranek in some season 1 episodes. So this is Kosh Ulkesh. And I have no idea if Kosh is a name, title, or both.

And man... Ulkesh has some stuff to throw at you in season 4.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Londo positions himself in the next few seasons... also interested in seeing how G'Kar continues to develop, how Sheridan survives that fall, and just what happened to Garibaldi. Also can't wait to see how the Earth Alliance vs Interstellar Alliance thing plays out, and wondering how the Shadows are standing as a military force after the events of the Season 3 ender.

Londo and G'Kar pretty much steal the season. Seriously. Oh, and remember what Morella told Londo...

One more thing...loved the scene in the episode "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place" where Refa is about to be assassinated by the Narns, set to Gospel music. It was bizarre, memorable, and just plain fun. Man, I love this show.

JMS wrote that song.

For the record, JMS writes religion brilliantly. Really. And he's an atheist. And he gets that being religious has nothing to do with intelligence, and it isn't an evil, but people can really mess it up. When you consider how other people write their atheism or their religiosity with such arrogance and stupidity, you really want to throw BABYLON 5 at them and say, "This is what it's like."

Hell, the whole damn show is about "faith manages".

I bloody love this show.
 
Watch your back, Michael.

Watch your back.

Breaks my heart he never got to say goodbye.

Yeah... :(

All this I knew.

Nerd.

Also, originally, Sakai, a planetary surveyor, would've been given an assignment to check out an unknown planet on the outer rim.

That planet would've been Z'ha'dum.

And the guy who hired her would've been Morden.

You can see why JMS went, "That's too much" and then ingeniously gave a future story as backstory for Sheridan. But originally, Sakai would've been on Z'ha'dum telling Sinclair to join the Shadows.

Ah, ok. I agree, in hindsight I think it would've been too much, too many coincidental characters and events all tying into that one person.

I didn't know there was an order other than the official one on the dvds.

Oh there are quite a few. The DVD ordering almost works except for one thing...Catherine Sakai is in Mind Games, but doesn't make her first appearance until The War Prayer (I think thats the ep). Also, Delenn's triluminary shows up in an earlier episode than it should (since at that point in the show she hadn't recieved it yet from the Grey Council). The DVD ordering is the initial television airing order, unfortunately not the intended viewing order...and as far as I can tell, JMS has never officially come out and given a recommended viewing order...its minor, but for a timeline nut such as myself its minorly irksome.

CRUSADE, on the other hand – there is no way to watch CRUSADE without some continuity errors. You can have fun with that. (In actuality, if you watch CRUSADE, you'll hate it. But it's actually awesome. The problem is this; not only are their huge continuity problems due to the production problems they faced, but imagine, just imagine, if BABYLON 5 got cancelled and you never saw SIGNS AND PORTENTS. Imagine if B5 got cancelled before you saw Morden. That's what happened with CRUSADE. Once you discover what the show was really about, you'll go, "OMG. This could've been better than B5." I kid you not. But before the mind-blowing can work, you gotta sit through it once, cold, and go, 'ugh'.)

Interesing. I'd heard about the continuity errors (something to do with uniforms), etc. I'd also heard about the unfulfilled plans for the show. Sounded quite interesting... I'm looking forward to Galen, I heard he was a pretty interesting character.

Who are you?

Dave.

What do you want?

Now...? Honestly, a Londo Mollari action figure.

It's funny going back and watching that episode because it predates THE TWO TOWERS and DEADWOOD by five years, and so it's kinda weird seeing him in such a small role.

I'd forgotten he was in Two Towers...

Speaking of roles and changes; don't know if you know, but Jeff Conaway (Zack Allan) just passed away a day or two ago. So of the main cast, Zack, Franklin, and G'Kar are all gone. Zathras too.

Awww...too bad. I'd heard he was in the hospital and was in seriously bad shape... well there goes my Grease: The Golden Years idea.



If you recall, Kosh was also called Kosh Naranek in some season 1 episodes. So this is Kosh Ulkesh. And I have no idea if Kosh is a name, title, or both.

And man... Ulkesh has some stuff to throw at you in season 4.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. I mistook Kosh for being an actual name, or first name, as opposed to thinking of it as possibly a title. Makes much more sense in that regard.

Londo and G'Kar pretty much steal the season. Seriously. Oh, and remember what Morella told Londo...

I saw the first few episodes of Season 4 last night...Londo and G'Kar made a deal to kill Cartagia... now as for what Morella told Londo...huh...I can't remember...I know it had something to do with the Eye and him becoming Emperor, didn't it?

JMS wrote that song.

I liked it.

For the record, JMS writes religion brilliantly. Really. And he's an atheist. And he gets that being religious has nothing to do with intelligence, and it isn't an evil, but people can really mess it up. When you consider how other people write their atheism or their religiosity with such arrogance and stupidity, you really want to throw BABYLON 5 at them and say, "This is what it's like."

Hell, the whole damn show is about "faith manages".

Good point. You're right...when looking at it in those regards, its quite refreshing.


I'll post more as I continue through Season 4.
 
So I'm about halfway through Season 4. The Shadow War is over. Very interesting approach. I assumed the war with the Shadows would span the entire show, though by 6 episodes into Season 4, the Shadows, the Vorlons, and the First Ones have all left for beyond the rim. Very interesting. Also very cool that the final battle didn't come down to shooting war (ie, pissing contest), but instead, required Sheridan to understand his way out of the problem by realizing the younger races didn't need the older races, and in fact were debilitated in the long term by the continued involvement of the Shadows and Vorlons in their development and affairs. Pretty cool.

Now, the focus has shifted back to the brewing tension between Earth and B5. Can't wait to see where this goes. Also, the Drakh have shown up, apparently servants of the Shadows, so its kind of nice to see a continued Shadow influence being played out by a younger race. They've been in the galaxy millions of years...even though they're now gone, their influence should still be felt. And with the Keeper on the Centauri Prime Minister and also on Capt Jack (the Mars Rebellion member), the Drakh's fingers seem to be in almost as many places as the Shadows were.



Oh, and the Tennyson quote read by Sheridan as the Whitestar fleet and all the alien allies take off to face the Shadows and Vorlons in the final battle, so epic and awesome:

"...and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."

So good.
 
So I finished Season 4 last night. The Shadow War and the Earth Civil War are over...but now they're building up to the Drakh War and Telepath War (the second of which we never got to see anything on).

Loved the episode "Rumors, Bargains, and Lies", with Sheridan duping the League of Non-Aligned Worlds into allowing the White Star fleets to patrol their borders. I also found it interesting that the final episode of Season 4 was treated almost like a Season finale, flashing forward between 100 - 1,000,000 years into the future. Was this episode always planned that way, or was it re-written to accomodate the fact that there may not have been a Season 5 (I know they had to shop the final season around to different networks before TNT picked it up)?

There's already been a mention of Captain Lochley in Season 4, so I wonder if it was always intended to change Sheridan out for Lochley, which makes sense given the events of late Season 4 and his ascension to the IA Presidency. Looking forward to starting on Season 5 tonight.
 

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Oh there are quite a few. The DVD ordering almost works except for one thing...Catherine Sakai is in Mind Games, but doesn't make her first appearance until The War Prayer (I think thats the ep). Also, Delenn's triluminary shows up in an earlier episode than it should (since at that point in the show she hadn't recieved it yet from the Grey Council). The DVD ordering is the initial television airing order, unfortunately not the intended viewing order...and as far as I can tell, JMS has never officially come out and given a recommended viewing order...its minor, but for a timeline nut such as myself its minorly irksome.

Had no idea.

Nerd.

Interesing. I'd heard about the continuity errors (something to do with uniforms), etc. I'd also heard about the unfulfilled plans for the show. Sounded quite interesting... I'm looking forward to Galen, I heard he was a pretty interesting character.

I adore Captain Gideon. I'll fill you in once you see it.

Now...? Honestly, a Londo Mollari action figure.

Do you feel you are being cast... in a bad light?

Ah, ok. That makes sense. I mistook Kosh for being an actual name, or first name, as opposed to thinking of it as possibly a title. Makes much more sense in that regard.

It might be a name. They might be brother and sister or mother and daughter, no one knows except the Great Maker.

I saw the first few episodes of Season 4 last night...Londo and G'Kar made a deal to kill Cartagia... now as for what Morella told Londo...huh...I can't remember...I know it had something to do with the Eye and him becoming Emperor, didn't it?

You must save the Eye that does not see... Cartagia's splendour.

You must not kill the man who is already dead... you'll see why in season 5.

Oh, and the Tennyson quote read by Sheridan as the Whitestar fleet and all the alien allies take off to face the Shadows and Vorlons in the final battle, so epic and awesome:

"...and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."

So good.

One of my favourite moments in the show.

And you do know who left that note on his desk, right?

So I finished Season 4 last night. The Shadow War and the Earth Civil War are over...but now they're building up to the Drakh War and Telepath War (the second of which we never got to see anything on).

Loved the episode "Rumors, Bargains, and Lies", with Sheridan duping the League of Non-Aligned Worlds into allowing the White Star fleets to patrol their borders. I also found it interesting that the final episode of Season 4 was treated almost like a Season finale, flashing forward between 100 - 1,000,000 years into the future. Was this episode always planned that way, or was it re-written to accomodate the fact that there may not have been a Season 5 (I know they had to shop the final season around to different networks before TNT picked it up)?

I love RUMORS, BARGAINS, AND LIES if only for the "YEEEEEEEEEEES!" bit. My personal favourite is INTERSECTIONS IN REAL TIME. Wasn't that wonderful?

And damn... poor Garibaldi.

As for the final episode, THE DECONSTRUCTION OF FALLING STARS... right, what happened was that WB cancelled B5 in its fourth season and so the last episode of season four was the series finale, SLEEPING IN LIGHT. However, at the eleventh hour, TNT bought B5 it's fifth season. This meant pushing SLEEPING IN LIGHT to the end of season 5, which left a hole for the season finale of season four. So it needed to be something stand alone and was essentially the first episode of season 5 in production terms (hence, no Ivanova). I really enjoyed the episode, particularly the holographic Garibaldi.

There's already been a mention of Captain Lochley in Season 4, so I wonder if it was always intended to change Sheridan out for Lochley, which makes sense given the events of late Season 4 and his ascension to the IA Presidency. Looking forward to starting on Season 5 tonight.

Lochley was mentioned because at that time they knew Ivanova wouldn't be in it. If Ivanova had stayed, she would've been in Lochley's place.

Lochley is great, by the way. I really like her. Season 5 however, is a real big mess for the first half. JMS was writing with virtually no lead time and all his season notes were accidentally thrown out by the hotel he was in at Blackpool. All of them. He spent the weekend searching in skips and couldn't find them. So he had to write season 5 from memory with no time and as such, he makes a lot of rookie mistakes and poor decisions because he simply doesn't have what he had in the first four seasons: a plan. To anyone who ever doubted the strength of B5 rests on the fact that JMS did indeed plan out the series well in advance before the first episode only has to look at what he could do when he was improvising in the first half of season five. Lots of wasted time here.

That said, once the first half of the season is over, and the Byron-arc takes a backseat, the show picks up its pace and builds to a brilliant ending. Londo steals this season in its latter half.
 
I adore Captain Gideon. I'll fill you in once you see it.

You know this is inevitable going to lead to a Gideon vs. Mal (from Firefly) showdown, right?


Do you feel you are being cast... in a bad light?

Only when the spotlight isn't on.

It might be a name. They might be brother and sister or mother and daughter, no one knows except the Great Maker.

I heard JMS prefers to be referred to as THE Great Maker, actually. Its very important that the "the" is capitalized, apparently.

You must save the Eye that does not see... Cartagia's splendour.

So does this refer to G'Kar? Or maybe the Eye (the Centauri relic that the Shadows obtained when they killed Lord Refa, then returned to Londo through Morden)?

You must not kill the man who is already dead... you'll see why in season 5.

The man who is already dead...hmmmm...have to think on that one.

One of my favourite moments in the show.


Agreed. Very powerful.

And you do know who left that note on his desk, right?

Sinclair. All those hints about his obsession with Tennyson during Season 1 make a lot of sense now.


I love RUMORS, BARGAINS, AND LIES if only for the "YEEEEEEEEEEES!" bit.

:)

My personal favourite is INTERSECTIONS IN REAL TIME. Wasn't that wonderful?

That was the episode where Sheridan is being interrogated, right? That was a pretty awesome episode. Then again, the vast majority are pretty awesome.

And damn... poor Garibaldi.

I needs my minds back, captain!!

As for the final episode, THE DECONSTRUCTION OF FALLING STARS... right, what happened was that WB cancelled B5 in its fourth season and so the last episode of season four was the series finale, SLEEPING IN LIGHT. However, at the eleventh hour, TNT bought B5 it's fifth season. This meant pushing SLEEPING IN LIGHT to the end of season 5, which left a hole for the season finale of season four. So it needed to be something stand alone and was essentially the first episode of season 5 in production terms (hence, no Ivanova). I really enjoyed the episode, particularly the holographic Garibaldi.

I see, interesting. That explains why all the online episode guides list the first episode of Season 5 as 5x02. Wondered about that.



Lochley was mentioned because at that time they knew Ivanova wouldn't be in it. If Ivanova had stayed, she would've been in Lochley's place.

Ah, ok.

Lochley is great, by the way. I really like her. Season 5 however, is a real big mess for the first half. JMS was writing with virtually no lead time and all his season notes were accidentally thrown out by the hotel he was in at Blackpool. All of them. He spent the weekend searching in skips and couldn't find them. So he had to write season 5 from memory with no time and as such, he makes a lot of rookie mistakes and poor decisions because he simply doesn't have what he had in the first four seasons: a plan. To anyone who ever doubted the strength of B5 rests on the fact that JMS did indeed plan out the series well in advance before the first episode only has to look at what he could do when he was improvising in the first half of season five. Lots of wasted time here.

That said, once the first half of the season is over, and the Byron-arc takes a backseat, the show picks up its pace and builds to a brilliant ending. Londo steals this season in its latter half.

Londo steals just about every scene he's in. Can't wait.
 
You know this is inevitable going to lead to a Gideon vs. Mal (from Firefly) showdown, right?

Damn. I actually don't know who I prefer of the two...

I heard JMS prefers to be referred to as THE Great Maker, actually. Its very important that the "the" is capitalized, apparently.

He's such a nerd.

So does this refer to G'Kar? Or maybe the Eye (the Centauri relic that the Shadows obtained when they killed Lord Refa, then returned to Londo through Morden)?

There's the eye of Z'ha'dum too. But I believe it refers to G'Kar's eye.

The man who is already dead...hmmmm...have to think on that one.

I don't want to spoil season 5 for you. But it does make a lot of sense when you realise that if Londo had listened to Morella a lot of things would go differently.

One of the things I adore about B5 is, due to its meticulous and epic plotting, it's fun to imagine "what if" something didn't happen or did, and you can reasonably extrapolate the remainder of the series because it's all so consistent.

Agreed. Very powerful.

Boxleitner delivers it beautifully. He should do more voice-over work.

Sinclair. All those hints about his obsession with Tennyson during Season 1 make a lot of sense now.

He even quotes that very poem in THE GATHERING when Delenn asks him why the humans built five Babylon stations.

Also, in the first episode of season one produced, INFECTION, Garibaldi asks Sinclair, "It's easy to find something worth dying for. Do you have anything worth living for?"

All the themes. Right there from the start.

That was the episode where Sheridan is being interrogated, right? That was a pretty awesome episode. Then again, the vast majority are pretty awesome.

Yep. Originally, that was to be the cliffhanger for season four! HOW MEAN!

Londo steals just about every scene he's in. Can't wait.

Him and G'Kar. Pretty much anything and everything in the show is expendable except those two.

Also: POOR MARCUS!!! :cry:
 
Damn. I actually don't know who I prefer of the two...

I haven't seen Gideon yet, so I'm undecided on that basis.

He's such a nerd.

But an incredibly well-spoken one. ;)

There's the eye of Z'ha'dum too. But I believe it refers to G'Kar's eye.

Ah, forgot about the Eye of Z'ha'dum. But yeah, G'Kar makes the most sense.

I don't want to spoil season 5 for you. But it does make a lot of sense when you realise that if Londo had listened to Morella a lot of things would go differently.

One of the things I adore about B5 is, due to its meticulous and epic plotting, it's fun to imagine "what if" something didn't happen or did, and you can reasonably extrapolate the remainder of the series because it's all so consistent.

Thats definitly something I noticed, especially after the alternate timeline idea was introduced in Babylon Squared and expanded on in War Without End.

Boxleitner delivers it beautifully. He should do more voice-over work.

I was thinking the same thing! I'm not even ashamed to admit I kept rewinding and re-watching that scene to memorize the quote, then I tried giving my own delivery...no where as good as Box's version, though. I seriously want to make that quote my ring-tone.



He even quotes that very poem in THE GATHERING when Delenn asks him why the humans built five Babylon stations.

I'm going to have to go back and re-watch that.

Also, in the first episode of season one produced, INFECTION, Garibaldi asks Sinclair, "It's easy to find something worth dying for. Do you have anything worth living for?"

All the themes. Right there from the start.

So true.

Yep. Originally, that was to be the cliffhanger for season four! HOW MEAN!

It would've had me on the edge of my seat waiting for Season 5, though.

Him and G'Kar. Pretty much anything and everything in the show is expendable except those two.

True. I do miss Sinclair though. I've watched Season 1 twice, and once I'm done with Crusade I'm going to re-watch S1 again. O'Hare's performance really grows on you. Plus I miss his voice. Speaking of voice-over work, his delivery and vocal cadence really leave a lot of his dialogue imprinted in one's memory.

Also: POOR MARCUS!!! :cry:

Yeah. Talk about unrequited love...jeez. I know a lot of B5 fans don't consider the short story JMS wrote "Space, Time, and the Incurable Romantic" (in which Marcus is apparently cryogenically frozen immediately after his death for hundreds of years, comes out of stasis and brought back to life by the Rangers, and begins a quest to clone Susan and imprint the memories of the original Ivanova on the clone, then re-freezes himself for 30 years until the clone was full grown, just to live out his fantasy of being with Susan) as B5 canon, viewing it as fanservice to the Marcus/Susan 'shippers, but I say why not? A little bit of a happy ending for two conflicted characters isn't such a bad thing.
 
Thats definitly something I noticed, especially after the alternate timeline idea was introduced in Babylon Squared and expanded on in War Without End.

Indeed.

I was thinking the same thing! I'm not even ashamed to admit I kept rewinding and re-watching that scene to memorize the quote, then I tried giving my own delivery...no where as good as Box's version, though. I seriously want to make that quote my ring-tone.

I'm annoyed someone hasn't put it up on youtube. :(

True. I do miss Sinclair though. I've watched Season 1 twice, and once I'm done with Crusade I'm going to re-watch S1 again. O'Hare's performance really grows on you. Plus I miss his voice. Speaking of voice-over work, his delivery and vocal cadence really leave a lot of his dialogue imprinted in one's memory.

Yeah, I really liked him too.

Yeah. Talk about unrequited love...jeez. I know a lot of B5 fans don't consider the short story JMS wrote "Space, Time, and the Incurable Romantic" (in which Marcus is apparently cryogenically frozen immediately after his death for hundreds of years, comes out of stasis and brought back to life by the Rangers, and begins a quest to clone Susan and imprint the memories of the original Ivanova on the clone, then re-freezes himself for 30 years until the clone was full grown, just to live out his fantasy of being with Susan) as B5 canon, viewing it as fanservice to the Marcus/Susan 'shippers, but I say why not? A little bit of a happy ending for two conflicted characters isn't such a bad thing.

I think it's because we're left hanging with Marcus. Jason Carter was probably the angriest that Claudia Christian ****ed up her contract for season 5 and got canned because it destroyed his entire sacrifice in season 4 because she's not there. I think if Ivanova had stayed (which is sad because I prefer Lochley) her arc in season 5 would've given closure to Marcus' sacrifice rather than the bizarre nature of two of the main characters just not being in season 5 which really makes season 5 feel even weirder.

Also; JMS has stated that if he had known Christian wouldn't have been in season 5 there is no way he would've killed Marcus. Marcus would've been alive and kicking for season 5... which is weird because, honest to God, I cannot see what he would've done in season 5. Maybe he could've replaced Montoya for a couple of episodes and that's it.
 
So I'm finally done. Watched the last half of Season 5, then started and finished Crusade, and then finally In the Beginning and Sleeping in Light.

First, Crusade was pretty cool. Lots of interesting set-up (which unfortunately was never paid off), and enjoyable characters. Gideon was great, and I really liked Galen. And I'm forever going to be left wondering just what exactly that Apocalypse Box was. :( Really cool series, though. It was a nice break from the largely static setting of B5 (which was probably intentional), and I loved that the Excalibur literally looked like a broadsword. I wish JMS had even continued the Crusade storyline in books or something, just to at least finish the story, though with a limited series like that which didn't get a lot of viewers, I can understand why it never happened.

In the Beginning was ok. It was cool to see the early portions of many of the characters lives during the Earth/Minbari war. And the bookends with Londo were great, especially the very end which wrapped up his prediction of G'Kar and him killing each other, but with a twist (almost a mercy killing for Londo on G'Kar's behalf to finally rid himself of the Keeper, and Londo's response to choke G'Kar motivated only by the Keeper). Very cool.

Finally, the last episode, Sleeping in Light. Man, it was a tear-jerker. Sheridan's last trip around the station, and final flight away as the station is destroyed. I teared up, I'm not ashamed to admit it. The music was great in that scene.



Overall, a fantastic show. Definitly one of those shows I'm going to re-visit every few years with a complete watch-thru.
 
I'm so glad you enjoyed it!

SLEEPING IN LIGHT makes me cry. I was fortunate enough to tell JMS himself that the scene where Londo looks out of the window in THE FALL OF CENTAURI PRIME and has a flashback montage to all his mistakes, opportunities, and then to his death, 'sent me away', as in, I cried like a baby. He said, "Me too."

Londo is one of the best characters ever. He's a joy. Did you enjoy the first half of season 5? It's not very popular, but the second half makes up for it. Particularly the, "I said that's enough! Now we gave you a promise, and we are bound by that promise. And damn you for asking for it. And damn me for agreeing to it. And damn all of us to hell, because that is exactly where we're going! We talked about peace. You didn't want peace! We talked about cooperation. You didn't want cooperation! You want war. Is that it? You want war? Well you've got a war!" (typed from memory) That speech is one of my all-time favourites.

I'm so glad you enjoyed this show. I love it.

You want me to tell you all about CRUSADE?
 
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I'm so glad you enjoyed it!

SLEEPING IN LIGHT makes me cry.

I feel manlier knowing it wasn't specific to me.

I was fortunate enough to tell JMS himself that the scene where Londo looks out of the window in THE FALL OF CENTAURI PRIME and has a flashback montage to all his mistakes, opportunities, and then to his death, 'sent me away', as in, I cried like a baby. He said, "Me too."

Londo is a very interesting character study, watching him from the early part of the series to the end, he goes through quite a change, and better yet, a believably motivated change. The same is true of G'Kar, though his is just less interesting.

Londo is one of the best characters ever. He's a joy. Did you enjoy the first half of season 5? It's not very popular, but the second half makes up for it.

Yeah, the Byron stuff that took up most of the early part of Season 5 was admitedly boring. It makes sense in the overall meta-story context, helping to lay more groundwork for the upcoming Telepath War, etc. It just wasn't that great, either from a writing or acting standpoint. But the latter half of the season, especially The Fall of Centauri Prime to Sleeping in Light, is pure greatness.

Damn that hotel maid!!! Damn her to Thirdspace!!

Particularly the, "I said that's enough! Now we gave you a promise, and we are bound by that promise. And damn you for asking for it. And damn me for agreeing to it. And damn all of us to hell, because that is exactly where we're going! We talked about peace. You didn't want peace! We talked about cooperation. You didn't want cooperation! You want war. Is that it? You want war? Well you've got a war!" (typed from memory) That speech is one of my all-time favourites.

And as usual, Boxleitner delivered it with a large dash of seething hot angry aplomb. He should do books on tape.

I'm so glad you enjoyed this show. I love it.

You want me to tell you all about CRUSADE?

Please. I know there are a few scriptbooks which collect unproduced scripts for some of the second season and remainder of the first, and I'm going to pick those up next. I just really want to know what JMS' planned for the show...the purpose of the Apocalypse box (other than acting as a MacGuffin-maker), learning more about Gideon and his past, etc. Most importantly how the cure for the plague was found (it was mentioned slightly in either one of the Legion of Fire books or the final Bester novel, can't remember).

What was in store?
 
Londo is a very interesting character study, watching him from the early part of the series to the end, he goes through quite a change, and better yet, a believably motivated change. The same is true of G'Kar, though his is just less interesting.

I love, at the end credits of SLEEPING IN LIGHT, seeing the juxtaposition of evil, plotting G'Kar and prophetic saint G'Kar next to each other, and frivolous, opportunistic Londo and trapped, burdened Londo. Love it.

Yeah, the Byron stuff that took up most of the early part of Season 5 was admitedly boring. It makes sense in the overall meta-story context, helping to lay more groundwork for the upcoming Telepath War, etc. It just wasn't that great, either from a writing or acting standpoint. But the latter half of the season, especially The Fall of Centauri Prime to Sleeping in Light, is pure greatness.

Damn that hotel maid!!! Damn her to Thirdspace!!

I would argue it doesn't work even as laying groundwork for the Telepath War since we never see it. I think the fifth season should've been 'anthologies' that jump through time up to the last episode taking place in 2281. So, say, the first three episodes are Valen a 1000 years ago, then a few episodes of the Dilgar war, then IN THE BEGINNING, then the fall of Centauri Prime, the telepath war, the Drakh war, and finally, SLEEPING IN LIGHT. Something like that. I think it's a mistake to 'set up' future storylines in the fifth season when there won't be a sixth. :?

And as usual, Boxleitner delivered it with a large dash of seething hot angry aplomb. He should do books on tape.

HE SHOULD!

Please. I know there are a few scriptbooks which collect unproduced scripts for some of the second season and remainder of the first, and I'm going to pick those up next. I just really want to know what JMS' planned for the show...the purpose of the Apocalypse box (other than acting as a MacGuffin-maker), learning more about Gideon and his past, etc. Most importantly how the cure for the plague was found (it was mentioned slightly in either one of the Legion of Fire books or the final Bester novel, can't remember).

What was in store?

Aha! Very well. Sit down, and listen to my tale. *cracks knuckles* *smokes pipe*

Basically, JMS said as the episodes were originally airing two very cryptic phrases:

JMS said:
Galen has quite a secret he's carrying around with him. It formed the basis of scripts 114 ("To the Ends of the Earth") and 116 ("End of the Line," which would've been the cliffhanger). It's also a major element of the coming technomage novels. There's a very small reference to it in the episode airing this week, when Galen mentions that he and someone else have been "betrayed by our own kind."

It also ties into why they were in such a rush to get the hell out of known space during the shadow war.

And then on those same boards...

A poster said:
JMS has hinted elsewhere that the cure might be found before the end of the series. He's also said the show we think we're watching will turn out not to be the show we're actually watching. Put these two together, and I wonder greatly if, had the next few years played out, he might have gradually uncovered some other, greater theme or conflict that would overshadow the plague, and take over the plot for the last year or so.
JMS said:
If not sooner....

The cure was to be found about halfway through season two and what would've happened was that the crew of the Excalibur would've been treated as traitors to Earth due to some problems. This is why the ship has a submarine feel and is somewhat claustrophobic – they were going to be stuck on it as fugitives. The real storyline had to do with something else entirely.

If you recall, I said, "Imagine if B5 had got cancelled before you met Morden". That's what happened to CRUSADE. Their "Morden" episode, which was written but never filmed, was based around this: in THE PATH OF SORROWS, a Shadow ship blew up the EAS Cerberus.

Except it wasn't a Shadow ship. That's why it looks odd.

That's an Earth ship.

The unfilmed episode had Gideon take the Excalibur off-mission when the Apocalypse Box tells him where to find the ship. When he finds it (and ends up destroying it) it comes about that it is an Earth ship based on reverse-engineered technology of Shadow ships. The shadow ships EarthGov found on Mars. Actually - before that. It transpires that there is a secret black ops division working in EarthGov military, in secret, for at least three EA presidents. In the background, before Clark, working with Shadow tech and they are much further along than anyone realized.

Gideon would've found out this conspiracy in the first season finale, and he would go to Mars to expose them... and be shot in the head by a sniper. He'd survive because his consciousness is kept in the Apocalypse Box (this is why Gary Cole voices the Box). It's this group that would get the Excalibur branded traitors, and Gideon would have to raise an army to get back to Earth and take them down. (Look up "Gideon" in the Bible, and you realise the name isn't a coincidence.)

But there's still one big secret left.

The reason why Galen really left the Circle of Technomages. What his 'big secret' is. Why they ran from the Shadow war.

Technomages use shadow tech.

Galen came back to keep an eye on all the left-over shadow tech that the Drakh had, and that EarthGov has, and anyone else. This is why the techno-virus in THE MEMORY OF WAR is so similar to the Drakh virus.

A couple of unfilmed scripts (including the season finale) were available online for a short time a couple of years after the show was cancelled and JMS had this to say:

JMS said:
Suffice it to say that - through a series of incidents - the Excalibur crew would have been considered traitors and have to basically be on the run. Further, the cure that Earth would have believed to be the right one would not in fact work as they think it would have worked. Our guys would find out about this, and no one would have believed them. As things unravel, it's a larger conspiracy, so basically - after the second year - the show you think Crusade is would be a whole different show, with much more depth to it, more political, more controversial in some ways, and would deal with the impact of technology on society, would cast our characters as renegades and loners without port, and turn the whole series upside-down.

That was what the show was really about.

Now go back and look at all the episodes of CRUSADE and you notice that every single one sets up this theme. Every character is carrying secrets. Every episode is about a secret organization and the abuse of technology. Every one. CRUSADE set up its major arc with more subtlety and layers than B5, which is why I honestly think it might've turned out to surpass it.
 
I would argue it doesn't work even as laying groundwork for the Telepath War since we never see it. I think the fifth season should've been 'anthologies' that jump through time up to the last episode taking place in 2281. So, say, the first three episodes are Valen a 1000 years ago, then a few episodes of the Dilgar war, then IN THE BEGINNING, then the fall of Centauri Prime, the telepath war, the Drakh war, and finally, SLEEPING IN LIGHT. Something like that. I think it's a mistake to 'set up' future storylines in the fifth season when there won't be a sixth. :?

Thats one thing I always found a bit odd about JMS's approach in B5. He wanted to create a rich, realistic universe, so he fleshed it out with a history, for before, during, and after the show. I do wonder, though, about working so hard to set that stuff up in the last season of the show. I guess he was banking Crusade would last long enough for him to address some of those plot lines in it.


Aha! Very well. Sit down, and listen to my tale. *cracks knuckles* *smokes pipe*

Basically, JMS said as the episodes were originally airing two very cryptic phrases:



And then on those same boards...




The cure was to be found about halfway through season two and what would've happened was that the crew of the Excalibur would've been treated as traitors to Earth due to some problems. This is why the ship has a submarine feel and is somewhat claustrophobic – they were going to be stuck on it as fugitives. The real storyline had to do with something else entirely.

Interesting...my only gripe is that it seems a bit too reminiscent of B5's sitution around Season 4. The submarine thing is brilliant, though. I like that.

If you recall, I said, "Imagine if B5 had got cancelled before you met Morden". That's what happened to CRUSADE. Their "Morden" episode, which was written but never filmed, was based around this: in THE PATH OF SORROWS, a Shadow ship blew up the EAS Cerberus.

Except it wasn't a Shadow ship. That's why it looks odd.

That's an Earth ship.

The unfilmed episode had Gideon take the Excalibur off-mission when the Apocalypse Box tells him where to find the ship. When he finds it (and ends up destroying it) it comes about that it is an Earth ship based on reverse-engineered technology of Shadow ships. The shadow ships EarthGov found on Mars. Actually - before that. It transpires that there is a secret black ops division working in EarthGov military, in secret, for at least three EA presidents. In the background, before Clark, working with Shadow tech and they are much further along than anyone realized.

Gideon would've found out this conspiracy in the first season finale, and he would go to Mars to expose them... and be shot in the head by a sniper. He'd survive because his consciousness is kept in the Apocalypse Box (this is why Gary Cole voices the Box). It's this group that would get the Excalibur branded traitors, and Gideon would have to raise an army to get back to Earth and take them down. (Look up "Gideon" in the Bible, and you realise the name isn't a coincidence.)

Very interesting. However, I knew some of this already from reading the Techno-mage trilogy. Also, this kind of ties into what Clark was doing with the Earth/Shadow hybrid ships in Season 4 (and which is also addressed in the short story "Personal Agendas").

But there's still one big secret left.

The reason why Galen really left the Circle of Technomages. What his 'big secret' is. Why they ran from the Shadow war.

Technomages use shadow tech.

Yeah, I knew that too from the Techno-mage trilogy. Its also the reason Galen's "Spell of Destruction" is so powerful...it was one of the root commands the Shadows placed in the tech to instigate the spread of chaos through the galaxy. I also like that in the books, they foreshadow the fact that Mages can't carry on relationships with each other because of their inherent ego and short tempers...in reality, its the Shadow tech that forces them to violence based on its inherent programming.

Galen came back to keep an eye on all the left-over shadow tech that the Drakh had, and that EarthGov has, and anyone else. This is why the techno-virus in THE MEMORY OF WAR is so similar to the Drakh virus.

Ah, ok.

A couple of unfilmed scripts (including the season finale) were available online for a short time a couple of years after the show was cancelled and JMS had this to say:



That was what the show was really about.

Now go back and look at all the episodes of CRUSADE and you notice that every single one sets up this theme. Every character is carrying secrets. Every episode is about a secret organization and the abuse of technology. Every one. CRUSADE set up its major arc with more subtlety and layers than B5, which is why I honestly think it might've turned out to surpass it.

Very interesting. I'm sad it didn't really get a chance to get its story started. After what JMS accomplished with B5, it sounds like Crusade really could've been just as good, while being a whole 'nother animal.

On a side note, I can't help seeing Gary Cole now without thinking of Gideon. Saw him in Pineapple Express last week and kept thinking, "HEY! Gideon wouldn't do that!"
 
Thats one thing I always found a bit odd about JMS's approach in B5. He wanted to create a rich, realistic universe, so he fleshed it out with a history, for before, during, and after the show. I do wonder, though, about working so hard to set that stuff up in the last season of the show. I guess he was banking Crusade would last long enough for him to address some of those plot lines in it.

Because he felt it was important to set things up that weren't resolved so it felt like a future history thing. I think he was wrong to further set up things that don't get resolved in season 5. And, I think most fans of B5 would agree with me. JMS made a mistake in not showing us the resolution of the Bester/Garibaldi conflict. And he made a mistake in setting up a telepath war he was never going to show. Remember, if CRUSADE had continued we would've found out more, but the actual telepath war happened two years before CRUSADE. I suppose had Ivanova been around, the Byron stuff might have had more closure, but I doubt it.

Interesting...my only gripe is that it seems a bit too reminiscent of B5's sitution around Season 4. The submarine thing is brilliant, though. I like that.

I think it would be quite different than season 4. In season 4, B5 had friends all over the galaxy with the League, Minbari, Centauri, and Narn, and they had the Shadow War to deal with, and they had an entire support system in the Rangers.

The Excalibur would have had none of that. They wouldn't have had the ISA looking after them, nor the Rangers, and not even Babylon 5. The League Worlds wouldn't have sheltered them, and unlike season 4 where Earth was on it's own, they would be on the ****-list of one of the founding members of the ISA. It would've been qualitatively different.

Very interesting. However, I knew some of this already from reading the Techno-mage trilogy. Also, this kind of ties into what Clark was doing with the Earth/Shadow hybrid ships in Season 4 (and which is also addressed in the short story "Personal Agendas").

Yeah, I knew that too from the Techno-mage trilogy. Its also the reason Galen's "Spell of Destruction" is so powerful...it was one of the root commands the Shadows placed in the tech to instigate the spread of chaos through the galaxy. I also like that in the books, they foreshadow the fact that Mages can't carry on relationships with each other because of their inherent ego and short tempers...in reality, its the Shadow tech that forces them to violence based on its inherent programming.

I don't know what this stuff is. Explain!

Very interesting. I'm sad it didn't really get a chance to get its story started. After what JMS accomplished with B5, it sounds like Crusade really could've been just as good, while being a whole 'nother animal.

On a side note, I can't help seeing Gary Cole now without thinking of Gideon. Saw him in Pineapple Express last week and kept thinking, "HEY! Gideon wouldn't do that!"

I honestly think Gideon is my favourite starship captain. Even more than Mal. Breaks my heart.
 
Because he felt it was important to set things up that weren't resolved so it felt like a future history thing. I think he was wrong to further set up things that don't get resolved in season 5. And, I think most fans of B5 would agree with me. JMS made a mistake in not showing us the resolution of the Bester/Garibaldi conflict. And he made a mistake in setting up a telepath war he was never going to show. Remember, if CRUSADE had continued we would've found out more, but the actual telepath war happened two years before CRUSADE. I suppose had Ivanova been around, the Byron stuff might have had more closure, but I doubt it.

Good points. Some of this stuff is mentioned/slightly resolved in the short stories and post-show novels (Legion of Fire trilogy), but its no comparison to the show itself.

I think it would be quite different than season 4. In season 4, B5 had friends all over the galaxy with the League, Minbari, Centauri, and Narn, and they had the Shadow War to deal with, and they had an entire support system in the Rangers.

The Excalibur would have had none of that. They wouldn't have had the ISA looking after them, nor the Rangers, and not even Babylon 5. The League Worlds wouldn't have sheltered them, and unlike season 4 where Earth was on it's own, they would be on the ****-list of one of the founding members of the ISA. It would've been qualitatively different.

Interesting. Is it weird that I'm getting a Das Boot vibe from that description?

I don't know what this stuff is. Explain!

Well, in the Techno-Mage trilogy, its revealed to Galen abotu halfway through that the Mage tech is in fact Shadow Tech. The Mage Circle of Elders knew this all along, but kept it a secret (for obvious reasons). When Galen learns of it, he feels betrayed and this begins a schism between him and the rest of the Mages. This trilogy also helps flesh out the Galen/Isabelle relationship, and explains a lot more about the Mages...though truthfully, it'd probably have been better left as a mystery.

The Techno-Mage trilogy occurs during Seasons 1-3 of the show, Book 1 during the latter portion of 2258, Book 2 picks up a month or so later in the early part of 2259 (at the conclusion of which the Mages leave the universe and Galen saves Gideon), and Book 3 takes place at the end of 2260 and beginning of 2261 with the resolution of the Shadow War.

I honestly think Gideon is my favourite starship captain. Even more than Mal. Breaks my heart.

I'm going to sit down and re-watch Firefly/Serenity and Crusade again to help make up my mind. Still leaning towards Mal, but thats probably just because I'm more used to him and his personality. Gideon is frigging awesome, though. Much like Michael O'Hare's Sinclair, the more you watch him, the more he grows on you. Nice avatar, by the way.

Hey, DiB, did you get Morella's prophecy yet?

I honestly missed it. I can't remember the links!







Would you be interested in a B5 timeline I put together? Its a simplified Spreadsheet file, with all the episodes, novels, comics, short stories, etc in chronological order (with a bit of overlap in certain instances where episodes and novels cross-over). I'll email it to you if you're interested.
 

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