American Politics

the watcher

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Given here in America we maybe about to step across a new threshold with the next election. What do you think of their being a female or black President? How do you think it will effect the this country? What do you think are the pros and cons of each candidate? Or what other Political questions or discussions would you like to discuss?
 

Joe Kalicki

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I want Skotti-Chan to be our next president. Especially if she could become black by then somehow. For realz.

Failing that, Obama's from Illinois and I'll support my boy.
 

McCheese

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I'm a practicing non-voter. I don't waste my time with it and I don't care who wins. I'll live here until it starts sucking to live here and then I'll move someplace else. Like Ireland or Japan.
 

Jaggyd

The member formerly known as skotti-chan
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I want Skotti-Chan to be our next president. Especially if she could become black by then somehow. For realz.

Failing that, Obama's from Illinois and I'll support my boy.

LOL, I'd be a terrible and evil Empress.

Seriously, I want Bill back....

Obama, Edwards or Al Gore would make me happy. I just don't trust any woman more evil than myself.
 

compound

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I'm a practicing non-voter. I don't waste my time with it and I don't care who wins. I'll live here until it starts sucking to live here and then I'll move someplace else. Like Ireland or Japan.
You're entitled to that view, and I've read some very convincing arguments in favor of this position. However, if I lived in a country with a government as (relatively) effective as the USA's (i.e. basic Social Services in place; rudimentary form of welfare available; fundamental healthcare program, etc.), I would *definitely* choose to vote, if I were a US citizen. I'd want to have *some* say, no matter how limited, in how a state like that will be run. And I've the faith in my fellow voters to take the same kind of responsibility.

Having said that, I empathize, to some extent -- I didn't vote in the Senatorial elections, here in the Philippines, two weeks ago, because I'm convinced it will not have a tangible effect on the lives of everyday citizens. The private sector -- citizens groups, corporations, private industry, etc. -- are doing a more effective job fulfilling the various functions that are *meant* to be taken care of by the various branches of government (as per our flawed Constitution). Heck, we're *still* counting the damn votes, semi-manually, nearly half a month later.
 

McCheese

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You're entitled to that view, and I've read some very convincing arguments in favor of this position.
Do you happen to have a link to that stuff. I'd love to have something that supports my opinion so I could direct people to it. Maybe then everyone will stop looking at me like I'm the Devil when I explain just how unpatriotic I am.
However, if I lived in a country with a government as (relatively) effective as the USA's (i.e. basic Social Services in place; rudimentary form of welfare available; fundamental healthcare program, etc.), I would *definitely* choose to vote, if I were a US citizen. I'd want to have *some* say, no matter how limited, in how a state like that will be run. And I've the faith in my fellow voters to take the same kind of responsibility.
My countrymen have continually elected idiots into what is arguably the most powerful position on the planet for nearly the entirety of my existance. I have no faith in their ability to go to the bathroom unassisted, let alone vote.

Besides everyone's inability to look past the big two parties was absolutely infuriating when I cared what happened to this country.
Having said that, I empathize, to some extent -- I didn't vote in the Senatorial elections, here in the Philippines, two weeks ago, because I'm convinced it will not have a tangible effect on the lives of everyday citizens. The private sector -- citizens groups, corporations, private industry, etc. -- are doing a more effective job fulfilling the various functions that are *meant* to be taken care of by the various branches of government (as per our flawed Constitution). Heck, we're *still* counting the damn votes, semi-manually, nearly half a month later.
Wow. Didn't know it was so bad down there.

Of course we had a rather drawn out 'counting the votes' thing here a while ago too.
 

compound

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Do you happen to have a link to that stuff. I'd love to have something that supports my opinion so I could direct people to it. Maybe then everyone will stop looking at me like I'm the Devil when I explain just how unpatriotic I am.
Elections... or, Cheering for the State from Mark Valenti's Liberty Page is a useful resource, which gathers various articles and essays related to the libertarian and anarchist criticisms of the electoral system. It's relatively well-argued, and makes sense, *especially* when one is already inclined to believe that voting/elections, as a system, is unsustainable. I'd love to read your own assessment of it, positive and otherwise.

For a more broad overview of Criticisms of Electoralism, you can always have a look at the relevant Wikipedia entry.

By posting these links here, I am not whole-heartedly endorsing any of the views stated. I just want to share the info contained in them, and I'm placing faith in the other users here not to use the ideas in an irresponsible way. Just in case this thread ends up locked, by the end of the week (which I suspect it will).
 
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Ultimate Quicksilver

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Haha politics.
Our politics are the smartest of the world. Seriously, the can steal all Brazil's money and no one gives a ****! We have people starving and the president is busy buying his 3rd airplane. Our congressman work 3 days a week and they are paid in a month more than half of the country's population could win in a lifetime (I'm not exagerating, I actually compared the numbers).

Having said that I still vote, it takes me like 30 minutes and Who knows? Maybe one vote could be a difference someday.
 

Dr.Strangefate

He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
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John Edwards or Al Gore would be my personal choices for the presidency... A Gore/Edwards or Edwards/Gore ballot would probably even get me out there volunteering...

Clinton is too Moderate, and Obama will be a better president in another 8-12 years, when he's got a LOT more experience. However if one of them gets the spot, then chances are that they'll get my vote.

The Republican Candidates don't seem to offer much. The most likable candidates are McCain and Mitt Romney, but McCain would be in his eighties if he won a second term, and Mitt Romney is (obviously) too conservative a candidate for my liking.
 

Iceshadow

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I think that Obama has the best chance for this year. As for voting, I'll go if I feel like it. There's almost no point in voting anything other than republican here.
 

compound

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Haha politics.
Our politics are the smartest of the world. Seriously, the can steal all Brazil's money and no one gives a ****!
I have some friends here who are not quite as cynical about politics as I am, and they've attened international citizenship training conferences, and they claim to have met some very passionate, committed activists and citizen organizers from Brazil who *do* give a **** about what's going on over there. But I guess they may indeed by a minority. I don't remember exactly which groups they were affiliated with.

However, I do remember that they remarked that the Philippines and Brazil had two very similar vote-tampering scandals, in the same period of time. Compare, if you're interested:

Hello Garci scandal (Philippines)


Mensalão scandal (Brazil)​
 

McCheese

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Elections... or, Cheering for the State from Mark Valenti's Liberty Page is a useful resource, which gathers various articles and essays related to the libertarian and anarchist criticisms of the electoral system. It's relatively well-argued, and makes sense, *especially* when one is already inclined to believe that voting/elections, as a system, is unsustainable. I'd love to read your own assessment of it, positive and otherwise.
Wow. That's a lot of reading. I'll get to it eventually though. Thank you.
For a more broad overview of Criticisms of Electoralism, you can always have a look at the relevant Wikipedia entry.
Wikipedia. Is there anything it can't do?
By posting these links here, I am not whole-heartedly endorsing any of the views stated. I just want to share the info contained in them, and I'm placing faith in the other users here not to use the ideas in an irresponsible way. Just in case this thread ends up locked, by the end of the week (which I suspect it will).
Yeah. This thread is not long for this world. Enjoy it while you can folks.
 

Ultimate Quicksilver

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I have some friends here who are not quite as cynical about politics as I am, and they've attened international citizenship training conferences, and they claim to have met some very passionate, committed activists and citizen organizers from Brazil who *do* give a **** about what's going on over there. But I guess they may indeed by a minority. I don't remember exactly which groups they were affiliated with.

However, I do remember that they remarked that the Philippines and Brazil had two very similar vote-tampering scandals, in the same period of time. Compare, if you're interested:

Hello Garci scandal (Philippines)


Mensalão scandal (Brazil)​

They are a minority. The population don't complain anymore. They get pissed off, they yell at their television, but they don't go out of their houses to do something. Seriously, I have a friend that tried to do a protest, not some bull**** protest against Bush because he is coming for 2 days. A serious protest against this ****ty government that complained so much about the centre-right politicians and did exactly the same thing (plus the corruption).

I was reading this Hello Garci scandal, pretty ****ed up heh? At least the people DID protest against it. No one here moved a finger with the Mensalão Scandal.
 
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Gideon Stargrave

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I can't wait until I turn 18 so I can choose to not vote. Believe it or not, I'm actually with McCheese on this matter; I don't trust the the American people enough to make a decision as important as who should be the next President. Honestly; Most people I know just vote for whoever looks better on TV. Screw that. I plan on abstaining, politics piss me off too much.
 

Ultimate Houde

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I'm a practicing non-voter. I don't waste my time with it and I don't care who wins. I'll live here until it starts sucking to live here and then I'll move someplace else. Like Ireland or Japan.

I can't wait until I turn 18 so I can choose to not vote. Believe it or not, I'm actually with McCheese on this matter; I don't trust the the American people enough to make a decision as important as who should be the next President. Honestly; Most people I know just vote for whoever looks better on TV. Screw that. I plan on abstaining, politics piss me off too much.

There is a reason we all have the same avatars
 

Caduceus

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I forsee this thread dying soon.

Right now, my only comment is that the debate between democratic candidates is producing many many hilarious cartoons.
 

McCheese

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I can't wait until I turn 18 so I can choose to not vote. Believe it or not, I'm actually with McCheese on this matter; I don't trust the the American people enough to make a decision as important as who should be the next President. Honestly; Most people I know just vote for whoever looks better on TV. Screw that. I plan on abstaining, politics piss me off too much.

There is a reason we all have the same avatars
The hivemind strikes again!
 

moonmaster

Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
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Today, my History teacher said that I have "one of the greatest 'political minds' that he's seen in all his years of teaching".

Thank you Daily Show!!

Anyway, I turn 18 next summer and I'm actually excited about voting. And it's not just me. A lot of kids I know actually want to vote next year.

I'm going with Obama. He seems like a great leader, and I think he'll give a perspective to the Presidency that no other President has. Back when they revealed that Obama had practices Islam as a child, the regular FOX NEWS ****-ups were talking about how this-apparently-means that Obama is now a proven terrorist, but I was elated. The possibility of a President who actually has a rudimentary understanding of Islam? It's like I'm dreaming.
 

Friday

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Today, my History teacher said that I have "one of the greatest 'political minds' that he's seen in all his years of teaching".

Don't take that too seriously. I've been referred to as the political future of southwestern PA, and since whenever anything goes down in the senate or congress of the state its always spearheaded by the politicos of my region that actually means something,

I'm going with Obama. He seems like a great leader, and I think he'll give a perspective to the Presidency that no other President has. Back when they revealed that Obama had practices Islam as a child, the regular FOX NEWS ****-ups were talking about how this-apparently-means that Obama is now a proven terrorist, but I was elated. The possibility of a President who actually has a rudimentary understanding of Islam? It's like I'm dreaming.

While I like Obama I think he should have waited till the 2012 elections to run. Right now he's a popular candidate but with another four years building a name for himself he could make it a near lock. As is he's got an uphill battle in many regions of the nation. I do think he'll take the nomination though. As much as I'd like to see more women in power in the country I don't see Hilary as an electable presidential candidate. It'd be handing the republicans a win all over again.
 

Joe Kalicki

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While I like Obama I think he should have waited till the 2012 elections to run. Right now he's a popular candidate but with another four years building a name for himself he could make it a near lock. As is he's got an uphill battle in many regions of the nation. I do think he'll take the nomination though. As much as I'd like to see more women in power in the country I don't see Hilary as an electable presidential candidate. It'd be handing the republicans a win all over again.

Well, he could wait. Or he could strike while the iron's hot, as it were. He might fade away in that time and lose all his heat.

I need my guy from Illinois to win to ease the pain of beloved I-55 namesake Adlai Stevenson losing to Eisenhower TWICE.
 

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