Captain America - The First Avenger (Spoilers)

How would you rate Captain America: The First Avenger?

  • Total voters
    24
I was responding in general, not you specifically.

But... while I agree a story should be consistent and logical, it should be internally so. What's considered 'consistent' and 'logical' is up to the writer. It's a fine line to draw, but for example; in STAR TREK, there is no set up that the world of STAR TREK is a fly-by-night, unhierarchical world. It does, in fact, go to great lengths to establish the chain of command as a key plot point. However, at the end of the film, it strains the credibility of the organization that it would promote Kirk to captain of the flagship of the fleet despite the fact he was suspended for cheating at the time of his duties on the Enterprise. On the other hand, in CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FIRST AVENGER, it's set up that scientists can create bizarre, magical leap forward in terms of scientific invention, and that this technological leap cannot be replicated by anyone other than the inventor. This is how "super science" works in the world of CAPTAIN AMERICA and it is consistent and at the heart of the story's premise: Zola can invent weapons with the cosmic cube that can't be replicated by anyone other than him, and Erskine can create a super-soldier serum that can't be replicated by anyone other than him. These are key elements to the premise of the film, and so not to give the film its premise predisposes you to not liking it.

I preferred THOR a great deal more to CAPTAIN AMERICA and I think, despite Weaving's beautiful performance, Red Skull was a poorly designed villain, but I know that it isn't better than THOR, they're of the same quality. It's just I prefer He-Man to GI Joe. If I loved World War II, I'd find this film far, far more enjoyable. But that's not necessarily the film's fault.
 
Last edited:
Planet-man said:
I think the issue here is that if they had these kind of designs in the 40s, why didn't it reshape history to the point where the modern Marvel films look like they're happening in the World Of Tomorrow instead of a slightly-more-advanced-through-Stark-technology Now. Project Rebirth was lost, so our armies aren't crawling with super-soldiers, but America recovered the Cube in the 40s.

But it's not an issue.... all that technology was only trivial because of the wildly advanced power source, Zola/Skull's process for harnessing it was lost, and Howard Stark was only able to duplicate the material in theory and base the groundwork for Arc Reactors off of it, so history turned out pretty much the same.
Click to expand...

The Overlord said:
Well the problem is super solider serum has reason why it is lost, so there is an explanation on why it wasn't available in the present. But if the Hydra had this level of tech, why didn't the Americans and Soviets take it and study it? Why is the tech in modern times in Marvel movies not far more advanced if the US government would have access to this stuff for years. I didn't like the high tech stuff because it took me out of the period piece feel this movie was supposed to invoke, it felt too much like a GI Joe episode. I think the movie would have worked better without Hydra and super science being limited to just the super soldier formula and maybe some weapon that the Red Skull was making to deal the Allies a crippling blow during the war. Just having Cap fight Nazis armed with 1940s weapons would have felt more real and made feel more like a period piece.
Click to expand...

I understand that, but I think its important to remember Cap's over-arching mission from the time he broke Bucky and the Howling Commandoes out of the camp they were held prisoner at is to STOP THE RED SKULL. He is shown accomplishing this mission mainly by blowing stuff up or destroying it through other means in the movie, the spin-off comics, the video game, etc. Since most of Cap's missions seem to consist of him coming up against Zola's inventions and destroying them, well, they're mostly destroyed I'd assume. Granted, there's reason to expect someone somewhere found some of the tech and was able to reverse-engineer it to some degree, and therein lies the dangling plot-maker for future Cap sequels.

Since pretty much ALL of these missions happen behind enemy lines and most of the tech probably wasn't recovered by the US, SHIELD, or Hydra post WWII (is there even a Hydra after WWII in this universe?), it sets up the technology level of the MCU as probably only slightly more advanced than our own.
 
I gave this 5 stars but the more I think about it, the more disappointed with how they handled Bucky's and Cap's deaths. If they had happened at the same time they could have made it so much more intense, meaningful, and tragic.
 
E said:
I gave this 5 stars but the more I think about it, the more disappointed with how they handled Bucky's and Cap's deaths. If they had happened at the same time they could have made it so much more intense, meaningful, and tragic.
Click to expand...

Thats a really good point. I'm imagining that last scene now with Bucky and it definitely adds more weight and emotion, even still keeping in the Peggy Carter/planning a date stuff. It also would've helped cement the Cap/Bucky relationship more in peoples' minds, further helping to set up the sequels.

Very good point.

Still, I love this movie, despite its faults.
 
I still really liked it.

But imagine Cap and Bucky on the rocket (or in the plane or whatever), yelling at each other in total anguish, trying to save each other's life.
 
I agree that scene would be awesome but if you do that, then you can't do the scene between Peggy and Cap, which we did get and was awesome. The Bucky scene would either have to happen just before or it kills the scene. I don't know if it would work if Bucky saves Cap's life in the plane by taking himself and the Red Skull out (imagine him wrestling with the Skull with the Tesseract and the two vanishing to Asgard) and then we get that scene.

However, Bucky's death as it is, doesn't work and he doesn't need to die. Either he should've just survived the film (fine) or, if he dies, there's got to be a purpose to it. I think, after Erskine dies, Cap has his first couple of missions, and in one of them, Bucky is killed through a mistake by Cap. So he's stuck on the USO tour (which makes sense he'd be a celebrity because he did stuff) and when he decides to break out people from a Nazi prison, people really don't want him to go because of the colossal **** up he did earlier, and the Howling Commandoes whom he saves are reticent about taking his lead during the break out and afterwards.

It's one of those things that upsets me in superheroes: they're so powerful, you have to do everything to keep the jeopardy. I think THOR would've been much improved if the Warriors Three agreed with Odin and Loki that Thor needed to be banished, rather than helping him out. It's my worry from the spoiled footage of THE AVENGERS which shows two scenes where Loki isn't more powerful than the heroes, and I would hope they would be severely outmatched by him. We'll see in that case, but I think with CAP, THOR, and IRON MAN, the forces of antagonism don't go far enough.
 
I feel like they didn't make Captain America out to be the "legend" he's supposed to be (this was pointed out in the Avengers thread). They did do a montage of him kicking ass, but because it was so quick and didn't happen until like, an hour and a half into the film, Captain America just doesn't seem as great. I think they could have even done without the USO scenes. The best thing about Ultimate Cap in World War II is that, in the first issue of the Ultimates, Cap is a total badass and he's a legend and even some of the soldiers on the plane are skeptical about his legend/reputation, and Bucky's like "He doesn't use parachutes. He says they're for girls." He just seemed so much more established as a badass in that comic. I'm not saying that they should have started the movie like that, but by the end of the movie it should have felt like that - I should have gotten the feeling that he was a real legend. That way it would have made more sense for the Avengers.
 
Last edited:
Langsta said:
I feel like they didn't make Captain America out to be the "legend" he's supposed to be (this was pointed out in the Avengers thread). They did do a montage of him kicking ass, but because it was so quick and didn't happen until like, an hour and a half into the film, Captain America just doesn't seem as great. I think they could have even done without the USO scenes. The best thing about Ultimate Cap in World War II is that, in the first issue of the Ultimates, Cap is a total badass and he's a legend and even some of the soldiers on the plane are skeptical about his legend/reputation, and Bucky's like "He doesn't use parachutes. He says they're for girls." He just seemed so much more established as a badass in that comic. I'm not saying that they should have started the movie like that, but by the end of the movie it should have felt like that - I should have gotten the feeling that he was a real legend. That way it would have made more sense for the Avengers.
Click to expand...

I agree. He should've earned being called a legend. But the sacrifice was kinda legendary. Hmm.
 
Langsta said:
I feel like they didn't make Captain America out to be the "legend" he's supposed to be (this was pointed out in the Avengers thread). They did do a montage of him kicking ass, but because it was so quick and didn't happen until like, an hour and a half into the film, Captain America just doesn't seem as great. I think they could have even done without the USO scenes. The best thing about Ultimate Cap in World War II is that, in the first issue of the Ultimates, Cap is a total badass and he's a legend and even some of the soldiers on the plane are skeptical about his legend/reputation, and Bucky's like "He doesn't use parachutes. He says they're for girls." He just seemed so much more established as a badass in that comic. I'm not saying that they should have started the movie like that, but by the end of the movie it should have felt like that - I should have gotten the feeling that he was a real legend. That way it would have made more sense for the Avengers.
Click to expand...

I think it def should have contained more of that. After he gets created it should go into the montage of badassery then on to that exact scene from ultimates. That would have been brilliant! The USO stuff could have been 5 minutes. Just enough to show the old shield and get the punch Hitler in the face thing in there.
 
The problem is Red Skull is weak-sauce. So Cap defeating him doesn't seem like a 'big deal'. A character appears legendary only in proportion to the difficulties he faces. Batman feels like a legend because of what the Joker did to him. Mr Incredible is incredible because he had to overcome Syndrome. Nick Angel's a supercop because he takes down the Neighbourhood Watch Alliance, and so on. The balance of power between Skull and Cap, Abomination and Hulk, Iron Man and Iron Monger, Thor and Loki, Batman and Ra's, all have the same problem – the balanced isn't skewed enough in favour of the villain. And so the hero can't rise up enough.

This is why I'm so excited by THE DARK KNIGHT RISES teaser — Batman looks properly outclassed by Bane.
 
Langsta said:
I feel like they didn't make Captain America out to be the "legend" he's supposed to be (this was pointed out in the Avengers thread). They did do a montage of him kicking ass, but because it was so quick and didn't happen until like, an hour and a half into the film, Captain America just doesn't seem as great. I think they could have even done without the USO scenes. The best thing about Ultimate Cap in World War II is that, in the first issue of the Ultimates, Cap is a total badass and he's a legend and even some of the soldiers on the plane are skeptical about his legend/reputation, and Bucky's like "He doesn't use parachutes. He says they're for girls." He just seemed so much more established as a badass in that comic. I'm not saying that they should have started the movie like that, but by the end of the movie it should have felt like that - I should have gotten the feeling that he was a real legend. That way it would have made more sense for the Avengers.
Click to expand...

I can get the need to set everything up like they did. A sequel might fix a lot of what you mentioned, maybe with some flashback scenes.

I would be ok with that.
 
I enjoyed it as much as Iron Man and Thor. I thought they went overboard with most of the sci-fi stuff, which was probably unnecessary in the first place. I liked Hugo Weaving's Werner Herzog impression but thought the Red Skull looked a bit hokey. Overall, it was a solid superhero film.

Bring on The Avengers.
 
Captain America

DARKKNIGHT said:
I got the impression that they were over water in the trailer. I'm sure it'll make sense in the movie.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they show him diving into the water. But he crashed the big plane into the water at the end of the first Cap movie too.

I'm just being nit-picky. It doesn't matter.
 
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier pre-release discussion & speculation

I think it was mainly ice. Otherwise the plane would have just sunk through the water.
 
Captain Canuck said:
Icy water, wasn't it?
Click to expand...

Nah, just ice. I've watched the movie a few dozen times for work on the timeline, I'm positive it was just ice. The plane did settle some after crashing, but that's normal given the impact. But yeah, just ice.

DARKKNIGHT said:
I think it was mainly ice. Otherwise the plane would have just sunk through the water.
Click to expand...

Yup. It's important to point out the Tesseract landed in the water, but that's because it melted through the plane's hull while it was still flying, minutes before it crashed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top