Captain America

Prof. Toad

Prof. Toad

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Joined
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IN HELL!!!
Does anyone else hate ultimate Captain America. I can't stand his conservative 50's outlook. All he ever does is beat up people whenever he has a problem with them. I admit Pym was wrong when he beat up wasp but he was whacked out on pills. I'm glad him and wasp are getting back together. And kicking banner in the jaw was uncool.


I'm sorry but I had to get that rant out of my system. He just pisses me off. I hope that Banner and Pym team up and knock him down a level.
 
Prof. Toad said:
Does anyone else hate ultimate Captain America. I can't stand his conservative 50's outlook. All he ever does is beat up people whenever he has a problem with them. I admit Pym was wrong when he beat up wasp but he was whacked out on pills. I'm glad him and wasp are getting back together. And kicking banner in the jaw was uncool.


I'm sorry but I had to get that rant out of my system. He just pisses me off. I hope that Banner and Pym team up and knock him down a level.
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Well I doubt Wasp will get back with Hank since he betrayed the team. As for kicking Bruce in the jaw remember that Hulk killed a bunch of people, and almost killed the ultimates. This was because he felt like a loser and wanted to be a big man.

As for his conservative outlook, Cap has only been unfrozen for less than two years, thats just the way people were back then and he hasn't adjusted to the new world yet. The thing about Cap (espesially Ultimate Cap) is that first and foremost he is a super-soldier, he will do what it takes to get the job done.
 
Ultimate Captain America rocks. So does 616 Captain America, now that he's written by Brubaker.
 
No I don't hate cap !!
I think he may have some issues but he sure can kick *** !!
Schizoid man didn't have a chance plus wasp and cap looked pretty together after that particular scrap !!
 
I don't hate Cap as a character. If I met the real life Captain America as written by Mark Millar (such a man exists) I probably wouldn't agree with him on very much at all apart from our mutual love of doo-wop. He is a great character for the Ultimates though, he's a hero, a symbol of an age where evil people wore evil badges and were evil about it, he's a great starting point to question the nature of evil in the 21st century, which is what Millar is doing in part.

In the overcrowded 616 universe it's hard to see why Cap still exists, he's not as powerful as most other heroes, he's not as determined nor as righteous. When all you see are heroes than how can a hero be defined? In The Ultimate Universe, he is most certainly a hero, he has a place and that one is valid.
 
Prof. Toad said:
Does anyone else hate ultimate Captain America. I can't stand his conservative 50's outlook. All he ever does is beat up people whenever he has a problem with them. I admit Pym was wrong when he beat up wasp but he was whacked out on pills. I'm glad him and wasp are getting back together. And kicking banner in the jaw was uncool.


I'm sorry but I had to get that rant out of my system. He just pisses me off. I hope that Banner and Pym team up and knock him down a level.
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You can't really hate a man for being who he is. He is product of the era he was raised in. To hate his conservative attitude is ludicrious because that's who he is. He was born and raised in a conservative era and was then frozen. Now he is thawed out in an ultra-liberal time period. Its your classic "culture shock".

By your logic....people are allowed to hate you because (for the sake of argument/debate) were born/raised in a trailer park and act just like Joe Dirt or Larry the Cable Guy.

Or to better illustrate the point---do you hate your grandfather and his attitude/personality on today's world? Because that's exactly who Capt is.....or would be had he not been frozen. (PS---I apologize if your grandfather is deceased. I don't mean to offend...just bringing up a point.)
 
In fairness, while I may not be Ultimate Caps biggest fan, both the ***-kickings you mentioned above were more than justifed.
 
Prof. Toad said:
... All he ever does is beat up people whenever he has a problem with them. ...
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I don't know. Seems like beating people (or nations) up whenever the USA has a problem with them is very much par for the land of the free and the home of the brave. In that sense the Ultimate Captain America seems to be a great representative and representation of the USA.
 
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ranaj said:
I don't know. Seems like beating people (or nations) up whenever the USA has a problem with them is very much par for the land of the free and the home of the brave. In that sense the Ultimate Captain America seems to be a great representative and representation of the USA.
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It's what we do. Some better than others. :roll:





:wink:
 
Victor Von Doom said:
It's what we do. Some better than others. :roll:
:wink:
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Thanks for keeping it light Von Doom. Your ironic post made me laugh out loud.
 
A couple of thoughts re the ULTIMATE's Captain America...

First, his attitude seems a lot more realistic, to me, than many takes on the CA character. Especially as the ULTIMATES CA hasn't been thawed out all that long. Here is a guy who was, after all, a "super soldier", who had no problems fighting alongside the military, who saw nothing corny about "patriotism", etc. To him, WW2 was YESTERDAY. I am so glad that while the ULTIMATE Cap has had issues adjusting, he hasn't turned into the mopey, whiney, "who am I", "I represent the AMERICAN DREAM, not AMERICA" type of guy that so many writers have portrayed Cap as over the years. But thats just me.

Second, one of the things that (for me) makes ULTIMATES interesting is that it rarely makes things "easy" politically. Thor is...well, whatever he is... Liberal? Libertarian? Norse God? *S*... Cap is fairly "conservative". Tony Stark seems... pragmatic? The political issues tackled in ULTIMATES are usually presented in a three-dimensional, shades of gray way, without the usual heavy handed, ram it down your throat approach that I see in most other comics, when politics become an issue.

So, if Cap's political outlook/general outlook doesn't fit yours, I can see you "not liking him" (although I like ALL of the Ultimates... despite NOT sharing ALL of their political views, obviously!)... but I think the character is well-written, and pretty "logical", given his origins and how we came to be present in modern times (flash frozen just as WW2 ended).

Shadow

PS - To me, if we are going to have politics in comics, we SHOULD see a diversity of political views. Lets be honest - in comics, "conservative" superheroes have all too often been presented as jack-booted thugs, like USAgent, as if the linkage (conservative/thug) was inevitable. Not looking to start a political brawl here, just noting that the Ultimates Cap is a nice change of pace. IMHO. *S
 
ranaj said:
I don't know. Seems like beating people (or nations) up whenever the USA has a problem with them is very much par for the land of the free and the home of the brave. In that sense the Ultimate Captain America seems to be a great representative and representation of the USA.
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Oh yeah, there's definitely a not-so-subtle political aspect to the character.
 
While I don't like Cap as a character, I think he's necessary for the plot. I feel the same way about him as I do Carleton from the Fresh Prince.

I know that's a really weird thing to say, let me clarify:

If cap were real, and I knew him personally then no, I wouldn't be able to stand him at all, but as a person on a team with all the others he is a necessity, the comic would be rather boring with out him.
 
Victor Von Doom said:
Or to better illustrate the point---do you hate your grandfather and his attitude/personality on today's world? Because that's exactly who Capt is.....or would be had he not been frozen. (PS---I apologize if your grandfather is deceased. I don't mean to offend...just bringing up a point.)
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You can blame a grandfather for his views, but not cap. See the people who lived them witness advances in culture, like the civil right movements and such. Cap didn't back in his day it was okay to treat balck people like ****. Not saying he would be a bad person, thats just how it was. This would be like if someone from the future started lecturing us for being so barbaric or whatever. Ever see Demolition Man? We would look at them like "shut up". If you want to change someone's political views you cant expect it to be over night.

And I don't really see anything that bad about his views (havent read Ultimates 2 vol 2), he doesn't disrespect balck people, He's shown no problems against the gay community. In fact his only gripes I saw was against bad language in movies, wife beaters, and when indivduals kill 800 people for really no good reason.

And on the Pym thing, he only went after him when her heard this has happened many times beofore.

PS He does not have a 50's out look, a 30's/40's outlook

Read Ultimate Nightmare has some good Cap moments. I really liked the speech he gave when they ran into Red Guardian
 
IMHO, Millar has created a money machine.

Born sickly, beaten up daily, Super Soldier Serum transforms your life, lead your mates into battles that you REALLY believe in, no grey areas, save the world, freeze, wake up and try to stop your brains seeping out of your ears at the state of the world 50 years later.

"give him a hug you old fool" didn't bring a lump to your throat? shame on you.

Ultimate CA is what 616 CA should have been - a genetically, tactically and spiritually perfect human who has gone through the looking glass, like Alice in Wonderland, and is trying to stave off,or at least reason through, the madness therein. The interplay between the emotionally fragile yet externally confident Wasp and the Sir Galahad-visits-Aerosmith-backstage bewilderment of Cap is one of the foundation stones of this great series.

Ultimate Cap rocks in the same way that Ultimate Thor has garnered new fans by being, well, believable.

just my two penn'orth BTW.

and this message board houses some of the finest minds yet discovered - rock on chaps :rockon: :D
 
I might not like the Ultimate version as much as I like the 616 Cap, at least on an ideological level, but one thing you have to remember is that Ultimate Cap has only been thawed out for a few years and hasn't quite adjusted to life in the modern world. Of course his values and ideals are going to be radically different from the rest of us. Really, how would you react to the way things are now if you had been frozen in the Ocean for 60 years? The world was a much different place and so many things we don't give a second thought to these days were taboo. Not to mention, in World War II, most people figured they could trust their government, our military forces were involved in a neccessary war against would-be conquerors and despots like Hitler and Mussolini. Ultimate Cap is a man of HIS time (the 40's), he follows orders and doesn't think twice about it... he follows his chain of command.

Hell, the world's changed a lot over the past 20 years. Women wearing thongs sticking out of low-rise pants with belly shirts and tramp stamps on their back shocked people in the 80's... you didn't see it much unless you were in a neighborhood with a high rate of prostitution. Now such a thing is more or less status quo. Maybe it's still trashy, but you can expect to see it almost everywhere you go. For that matter, the last 10 years. Remember when Marilyn Manson first hit the scene and all the controversy that surrounded him? Now people could care less... he's tame by 2006 standards but in 1996, he was shocking.

I'm sure Ultimate Cap will chill out after a while, but he's still getting used to the modern world right now.
 
Willverine said:
Women wearing thongs sticking out of low-rise pants with belly shirts and tramp stamps on their back
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Still waiting for this fashion to hit Sidcup, by the way.

We've only recently discovered spats, Fedora's and wingtip shirts :wink:
 
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