Changes in the Ultimate Universe

[vader]

We all know that the 616 universe is supposed to be different from the Ultimate universe, i want to hear your opinion on what the next big change is going to be. Will Ultimate spider-man have a sidekick, will Mary Jane develop powers, will the x-men grow in numbers? Tell me what you think will happen next.

P.S. If there was already a thread like this, just humor me.

 

[Fuzzy Birds]

Hmmm..... where to start? I'm gonna narrow it down to a couple changes per title...

Ultimate Spiderman:
May finds out Peters identity.
Peter actually turns 16.
Peter never gets back together with MJ.

Ultimate X Men:
The return of Millars vaguely sinister Xavier.
A higher mortality/turnover rate.
Wolverine gets lost.

Ultimate Fantastic Four:
The team becoming publicly fashionable i.e X-Statix.

Ultimates:
An occasionally rotating roster.

Admittedly, some these changes are things we've also seen in 616, but I feel they'd be much more interesting in the UU.

 

[vader]

Hmmm..... where to start? I'm gonna narrow it down to a couple changes per title...

Ultimate Spiderman:
...Peter actually turns 16.

Peter actually turning 16, ha. that's not going to happen for like another five or six years.

 

[Goodwill]

Personally, I think the Ultimate Universe is plenty different from 616, although keeping close to it's source material. That's really the best way to do it since, if the universe was too diverse, than it would be just another alternate universe. I don't really want that to happen.

What I do think should happen, though, is the Ultimate Universe should be expanded. Marvel should have more characters running around in the Ultimate Universe and bring back the ones that have been sitting in limbo for a while. With more characters, you'd need more titles... That's the first change that should take place. Quesada's just being stubborn... If you want to animate an entire Universe, have more titles. I'm not talking about titles like "Ultimate Mark Raxton" or something where small characters get their own titles, but ones that would count towards the bigger picture or "conspiracy". That'd be cool enough, I think.

Also, I think instead of having annual mini-series or, like right now, having tons of mini-series come out... Wait a bit so they feel significant. If there are all these good ideas happening at once, what's the point? Galactus shows up, Gwen dies, the Ultimates and the X-Men are at war, Magneto's been captured and freed practically twice (Once from Xavier's emprisonment, the other time from actual emprisonment), etc. What's going on? Let's take a breather and introduce a few original ideas, perhaps original characters, and have the good ideas when they would be most significant. I think the UU should be organized and more strategic with what's going on. Personally, that would perfect everything.

Lastly, I don't think we should be ultimizing every character just yet. That's not right. We'd soon reduce some pretty cool characters to simple cameos, resulting in their mortality or something... It's not bad for those of you who think there should be a higher mortality rate, but we've got to pick and choose characters more wisely. I know I wouldn't have introduced Omega Red into USM if I were writing it. I wouldn't have introduced Sebastion Shaw in one issue, only to kill him. I mean, seriously. Just think.

 

[Patriot Mk2]

There won't be more ongoing Ultiimate titles for a while, for the simple reason that 616 is their main imprint and firing loads of new titles/ideas into the UU will damage their sales, and the UU's as well. There are the current 4, all covering different aspects and a fair few mini's. Its grand as it is.

As for cosmetic changes......

The X-Men need to (IMO) have the school turned into a proper school, staff & all. Seriously they call it a school but what actual subjects do they do?Emma Frost's school seem to have it down. That way the roster can be expanded, and the "senior class" would be your actual X-Men team.

The problem with the title, and the problem with X-Men during most of the 90's, is that its directionless & drifting from threat to threat.

Spider-Man just got old.......its varied too much from the source and turned into a "Villain of the Week" showcase title. Good now & again but overall I think they ****ed it up.

Ultimates is grand

UFF is fine as well, IMO. Ellis' run was fairly boring but Millar's got it down. Also Ellis made a balls of the Dr Doom ultimization

 

[Ice]

Hmmm..... where to start? I'm gonna narrow it down to a couple changes per title...

Ultimate Spiderman:
May finds out Peters identity.
Peter actually turns 16.
Peter never gets back together with MJ.

Ultimate X Men:
The return of Millars vaguely sinister Xavier.
A higher mortality/turnover rate.
Wolverine gets lost.

Ultimate Fantastic Four:
The team becoming publicly fashionable i.e X-Statix.

Ultimates:
An occasionally rotating roster.

Admittedly, some these changes are things we've also seen in 616, but I feel they'd be much more interesting in the UU.

Those are great ideas, Fuzzy. I hope that happens.

 

[ProjectX2]

I think they should "reultimize" the Ultimate Universe. It's continuity problems are too confusing.

Here are my ideas for a restart:

Ultimate Spider-Man:
*Green Goblin isn't Norman Osborn, but Uncle Ben, who is dead

Ultimate X-Men:
*The team consists of a walking Xavier, Havok, Multiple-Man, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Shadowcat, who want to eradicate humanity

Ultimate Fantastic Four:
*A superhero team who live in the brain of their child, Franklin

The Ultimates:
*Superhero celebrities who just sit around talking about stuff

 

[vader]

The Ultimates:
*Superhero celebrities who just sit around talking about stuff

Don't need to have comics do that, we already have tv shows up the wazoo showing us celebrities sitting around and complaining about nothing.

 

[Goodwill]

Whoever mentioned that the X-Men is just a title consisting of a "villain of the week" couldn't be more right. I haven't seen a direction in the Ultimate X-Men since Millar was on, where he actually recycled characters, was more daring in terms of changes, yet could change the villains around in a whim. I hope someone can stay on it for more than 12 issues. I really do. I think that's when the title will really become something.

 

[ProjectX2]

Whoever mentioned that the X-Men is just a title consisting of a "villain of the week" couldn't be more right. I haven't seen a direction in the Ultimate X-Men since Millar was on, where he actually recycled characters, was more daring in terms of changes, yet could change the villains around in a whim. I hope someone can stay on it for more than 12 issues. I really do. I think that's when the title will really become something.

No, they said that's what Ultimate Spider-Man is.

 

[Nas-T!]

My ideas are sorta a mix of everyone's. Here's some quick ideas for each title (btw, ProjectX2, your ideas are so amazingly twisted but not for this universe...but still damn interesting...there's potential there).

Ultimate Spider-Man:
Peter's aging is fine by me. The characters in the other books are aging too quickly, if you ask me. Spidey aging one year every 100 issues makes sense. It means he'll almost never reach the near-30's/30's he's in in the 616 in any of our lifetimes.
No Peter + MJ. That was Bendis' first mistake. He took something that's too old in the regular MU and presented it to us in a new package. It's already getting old.
Peter should get to know other people a bit better. I'd like to see him and Johnny Storm hang out more often and also maybe with Iceman. A kind of little "Spider-Friends" group. Less of Peter interacting with Wolverine.
Brian Michael Bendis, No More!
Bagley can stay.
MJ should go out with Mark Raxton and Liz with Kong.
Harry returns but not as a psycho. As the cool rich guy with the problems and trying to attone for the mess he's made with his friends. Kinda like Lex Luthor on "Smallville".

Ultimate X-Men:
The team is fine as it is right now. If they want to add new members, they should conveniently remove existing members.
NO MORE NEW MUTANTS! Just for a while. But we still have so much potential running around or in Camp X-Factor.
That mysterious, plotting, maybe-evil Xavier can come back and seek alternative (non-governmental) funding and maybe strike up a plan to break out the inmates of Camp X-Factor, thinking that all the prisoners will come to the school when instead they all run away!
More Ultimate-X-Switcheroos with villains as good guys and heroes as bad guys. Multiple Man and Forge on the "dark side" was awesome!
Get Omega Red in this title and make him a serious threat (The Reavers and Deadpool will be ruined).
More issues/short arcs focusing on the team and their internal dynamics. Less BIG BADS every arc. Vaughan's strengths lay in his ability to craft a good arc around relatively weak threats like Sinister and Longshot. Millar tried to make every arc a HUGE blockbuster and look how that turned out. Bendis was just...meh.
BRING BACK DAZZLER!!!

The Ultimates:
Not sure about the upcoming Loeb/Mad stuff. I hated the idea of it at first, then warmed up to it, now I'm not sure again. It looks to be Loeb's 616 Avengers wetdream or something. Not that that has anything to do with it.
I say give them a satelite for a base and, while you're at it, have some TV network do a reality show of them at their base.
Have the team all intermingle more often. We only seem to see certain members interact which is realistic, but still feels weird considering they're all on the same team here.
Not much else to "fix" here.

Ultimate Fantastic Four:
Lose the super-sci-fi that Millar brings to the table. It's awesome when it makes sense (Ellis) or when it's a subtle joke (the mini-mates) but not when they're just deus ex machinas (the Fantastic-Oh-Five or the helmet).
Have the FF explore and learn and be scientists (at least Reed and Sue should) with Johnny and Ben for the humor/action. Every now and then Reed and Sue will showcase their powers in unique ways (the less you use them, the cooler it'll be when Sue turns people's eyes invisible and Reed smothers someone in himself or whatever).
If Reed and Sue are the ones who sit down and think about the different ways they can use their abilities, then Johnny and Ben are the two loafers who don't. They'd be surprised by what they can do because they never think about what they can do.
If they're exploring then have them go visit things like a universe Reed would've accidentally found inside an atom or stop an alien invasion on a planet filled with hyperintelligent cockroaches. I dunno...make it FANTASTIC!

Now other books. If you expand the universe the already-apparent continuity errors just increase dramatically. At the most the line should increase to two more regular titles.

That's all for now.

 

[Ice]

Ultimate X-Men:
*The team consists of a walking Xavier, Havok, Multiple-Man, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Shadowcat, who want to eradicate humanity

I'm surprised you didnt have Wolverine as a tranny or whatever you said you wanted to do to him.

 

[ProjectX2]

I'm surprised you didnt have Wolverine as a tranny or whatever you said you wanted to do to him.

That's the second arc, where he joins a crime fighting group known as The Molesters!

 

[Korinthian]

First post here, hi, hi.

What I think is nice about Marvel introducing known characters in cameos is that they get a history. In the old MU they would pretty much introduce a character and its origin in a single issue. Bruce banner appears out of nowhere and becomes the Hulk, but Bruce Banner did not exist up to that point.

Anyone understands what I'm trying to say or am I just babbling?

Oh well.

 

[Ice]

Welcome!

 

[Bass]

First post here, hi, hi.

What I think is nice about Marvel introducing known characters in cameos is that they get a history. In the old MU they would pretty much introduce a character and its origin in a single issue. Bruce banner appears out of nowhere and becomes the Hulk, but Bruce Banner did not exist up to that point.

Anyone understands what I'm trying to say or am I just babbling?

Oh well.

I understand what you mean, and I think it's counterproductive. The idea of the Ultimate universe, to 'restart' the universe, to make it accessible to new readers means that the slate is clean and everything is new. Then we see writers continually name-dropping old MU characters into their series with no expansion and as such, they specifically only appeal to people already reading comics and not the new audience.

I'm one of those people that thinks when something is 'ultimitized' it should be perfect redefinition of the original character and improve and enhance the character. Ultimizing second-tier characters into the second-tier is just a waste. If you do that, you may as well come up with your own character. The old MU is an exhaustable finite source of inspiration and is used with too much abandon, I think.

Welcome, Korinthian!

 

[Korinthian]

Then we see writers continually name-dropping old MU characters into their series with no expansion and as such, they specifically only appeal to people already reading comics and not the new audience.

Though, they could be name-dropping for a reason, maybe to tell older comic readers "don't wait up for this one to become a hero". They show us a bit what they intend to do instead of just leaving it open-ended (which can be a bad thing).

Ultimizing second-tier characters into the second-tier is just a waste. If you do that, you may as well come up with your own character. The old MU is an exhaustable finite source of inspiration and is used with too much abandon, I think.

I'd like to see a new cool character as well, I really do, but let's face it: most things have been done. Also, improving an existing 616 character will arguable make a better finished product as well as give some fan-service to the few comic book nerds among us :-b

Welcome!

Thanks guys

 

[Bass]

I'd like to see a new cool character as well, I really do, but let's face it: most things have been done. Also, improving an existing 616 character will arguable make a better finished product as well as give some fan-service to the few comic book nerds among us :-b

That's what I'm saying. I'm fine with MU guys being ultimitized if they attempt to improve and maximize on the original character's concept, but not when they use them as scene padding. Then it's a waste. For example, Omega Red, Rhino, Shocker, Venom, Carnage, Gwen Stacy, Vision, Sandman, Lady Deathstrike, Marrow, Mister Sinister, Juggernaut, The Inhumans, and probably some others I can't think of right now. All these characters were either radical departures from their old MU and as such, defied all reason to share the name (not because they were BAD, but because they're just nothing like their originals, not even in concept, generally just appearance), were identical to their originals with virtually no change save "we've not met you before" syndrome, or were just quickly swept under the carpet and not used except as throwaway scenes.

Characters I'm watching should this happen to them: Carol Danvers, Mahr-Vehl, Jen Walters, and Captain Britain. So far, so good, though.

So, I just think that the ultimizations are happening too quickly without too much thought. The ability to take a pre-existing character and 'ultimize' him or her is a one-shot deal and very, VERY finite. When it's done, it should be with the same care and consideration for maximizing potential stories as was given to Spider-Man, the X-Men, and the Ultimates in the first place, and not as an in-joke.

If this is not the case, then they should just invent a new character for their purposes. The reason they don't? It's as you say - it's harder to create something new from scratch than to copy or **** with someone else's work.

At least that's what I think anyway.

 

[Pandrio]

:rockon::rockon::rockon:Welcome Korinthian!!!:rockon::rockon::rockon:

At least that's what I think anyway.

I agree.