DC Cinematic Multiverse - Viewing/Reading Order

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Is Lucifer set in pre-Crisis or post-Crisis

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Treacleman

Active Member
Hey! So I'm now fully caught up (just in time for Crisis! Haven't had time to touch Smallville, Birds of Prey or the Batman films, though). I've spent some time thinking about the viewing order of the episodes, and here's the best I can come up with for the 2019 seasons:

Black Lightning 3x01, "The Book of Occupation: Chapter One: Birth of the Blackbird"

Black Lightning 3x02, "The Book of Occupation: Chapter Two: Maryam's Tasbih"

Black Lightning 3x03, "The Book of Occupation: Chapter Three: Agent Odell's Pipe-Dream"

Black Lightning 3x04, "The Book of Occupation: Chapter Four: Lynn's Ouroburos"

Black Lightning 3x05, “The Book of Occupation: Chapter Five: Requiem for Tavon”

The Chronicles of Cisco - Post 96: File_01001

Batwoman 1x06, "I'll Be Judge, I'll Be Jury"

Supergirl 5x01, "Event Horizon"

Supergirl 5x02, "Stranger Beside Me"

The Flash 6x01, "Into the Void"

The Flash 6x02, "A Flash of Lightning"

The Flash 6x03, "Dead Man Running"

The Chronicles of Cisco - Post 97: File_01002

Arrow 8x01, "Starling City"

Arrow 8x02, "Welcome to Hong Kong"

The Flash 6x04, "There Will Be Blood"

The Flash 6x05, "Kiss Kiss Breach Breach"

Arrow 8x03, "Leap of Faith"

Arrow 8x04, "Present Tense"

Batwoman 1x07, "Tell Me the Truth"

Supergirl 5x03, "Blurred Lines"

Supergirl 5x04, "In Plain Sight"

Supergirl 5x05, "Dangerous Liasons

Supergirl 5x06, “Confidence Women”

Black Lightning 3x06, “The Book of Resistance: Chapter One: Knocking on Heaven's Door”

Black Lightning 3x07, “The Book of Resistance: Chapter Two: Henderson’s Opus”

Black Lightning 3x08, “The Book of Resistance: Chapter Three: The Battle of Franklin Terrace”

Arrow 8x05, “Prochnost”

The Flash 6x06, “License to Elongate”

Supergirl 5x07, “Tremors”

The Flash 6x07, “The Last Temptation of Barry Allen, Pt. 1”

Arrow 8x06, “Reset”

The Flash 6x08, “The Last Temptation of Barry Allen, Pt. 2”

The Chronicles of Cisco - Post 98: File_01003

Batwoman 1x08, “A Mad Tea Party”

Supergirl 5x08, “The Wrath of Rama Khan”

Arrow 8x07, “Purgatory”

Here's my reasoning:
For reasons explained below, Batwoman catches up to the other shows in 1x08. To make this timing fit better, I suggest moving 1x07 forward. Where exactly to move it to is flexible, since the time gap before and after the episode is unspecified, but where I've placed it seems like a convenient gap somewhere in the middle.
Judging by the red skies in the promo for Black Lightning 3x09, it takes place during Crisis. Since 3x06-08 are all fairly closely linked, and have an unspecified time gap after 3x05, I think the best place for them is in the week-long gap between Confidence Women and Tremors, so that if 3x09 picks up soon after them (and it should, since it's part of the same "book"), it lines up more or less with the start of Crisis.
Prochnost takes place an unspecified length of time after 8x04 - enough time for Oliver to train Mia. It ends with Oliver being knocked out with a dart, and he wakes up two days later in Reset, which is then the day before Crisis. This Places Prochnost before License to Elongate.
This is specified to take place 2 days before Crisis, and runs straight into 6x07, where things start to get complicated.
Now everything starts happening at once. The Flash 6x08, Batwoman 1x08, Supergirl 5x08 and Arrow 8x07 all end with the same post credits sequence - Nash Wells becoming Pariah 2 minutes before Crisis. Working backwards, this means Arrow 8x06 must be concurrent with The Flash 6x07, and Supergirl 5x07, which all end on cliffhangers.
 
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Treacleman

Active Member
So it looks like Batman '66 and Titans are part of the Cinematic Multiverse now too! :D It's getting a bit ridiculous now but hey, I love it.
 

Dok95

Well-Known Member
Without spoiler, is it better to watch Black Lightning 3×09 between Parts 2 & 3 or before Part 1?

I saw a promo image
So, does Black Lightning take place before Part 1 or does it take place between Parts 2 & 3? I think it's between Parts 2 & 3, according to the promo images...

Also, the title was changed, it's now: "Earth Crisis"!
 

Treacleman

Active Member
Without spoiler, is it better to watch Black Lightning 3×09 between Parts 2 & 3 or before Part 1?

I saw a promo image
So, does Black Lightning take place before Part 1 or does it take place between Parts 2 & 3? I think it's between Parts 2 & 3, according to the promo images...

Also, the title was changed, it's now: "Earth Crisis"!
Having now watched Part 1, I'd definitely suggest watching Part 1 before Black Lightning 3x09. Not sure where it'll take place in relation to Part 2, but it airs between Part 2 and Part 3, so that's probably the best time to watch it.
 

Rman

Member
Earth #s for pre-existing shows/movies confirmed by Crisis.

Earth-89: Burtonverse
Earth-9: Titans? (Posted a ? since there's some saying it isn't the actual Titans, just another version of them)
Earth-66: Batman (66 Series)
Earth-167: Smallville
Earth-96: Singerverse
 

Treacleman

Active Member
Okay, so as of last night, I'd say the order goes:

Arrow 8x07, "Purgatory"
Supergirl 5x09, "Crisis on Infinite Earths, Part 1"
Batwoman 1x09, "Crisis on Infinite Earths, Part 2"
Black Lightning 3x09, "The Book of Resistance: Chapter Four: Earth Crisis"
Doom Patrol 1x15, "Ezekiel Patrol"
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Earth #s for pre-existing shows/movies confirmed by Crisis.

Earth-89: Burtonverse
Earth-9: Titans? (Posted a ? since there's some saying it isn't the actual Titans, just another version of them)
Earth-66: Batman (66 Series)
Earth-167: Smallville
Earth-96: Singerverse
Earth-9
We don't necessarily see their universes get destroyed, though Titans implies it. If Earth-9 really does get destroyed, it just means that Titans and Doom Patrol occur on an almost identical earth where a wave of Anti-Matter didn't destroy existence. If not, Doom Patrol and Titans have broken timelines.

Earth-167
I find it strange that Clark got rid of his powers and has been living on the farm for a year and a half at most, since Smallville flashed to 2018 in the finale and it's currently late 2019. I don't know if I like that or not but I'm glad he's not dead. Maybe he'll be back when he realizes that the world needs him? Hey, the other Supermen can have kids and stay super, why not this one? He always gets rid of his powers but it's never long till they're back. I can always pretend...

Edit: In Smallville S3, it was revealed Clark would live forever. He will get his powers back and he can't die!

Earth-96
On Earth-96, the reference to Superman III is confusing. Do they intend on making Superman III and Superman IV: The Quest for Peace canon? Superman Returns is obviously canon because he references Jason and is played by Brandon Routh.

Maybe he returned to his old suit after Superman Returns and the timeline goes:
1997 - Superman: The Movie: Special Edition
2001 - Superman II
2002 - Supergirl
2006 - Superman Returns
2007 - Superman III
2008 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace

Maybe it makes no sense and I should just assume similar events happened in the Singerverse.

Is there no way it can work?

Earth-99

I wonder what world they'll visit next.
 
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TalonCard

Well-Known Member
Re: Earth 9, I seriously doubt they're going to end without restoring at least some of the multiverse. It's cool that DC and WB are allowing all these crossovers, but it's not like a special event on the CW is going to dictate the existence of past or future franchises. (And it would be silly for the Arrowverse to write out future crossovers anyway.) Worrying about the timeline being broken now is like worrying about how Spider-Man Far From Home can exist if Peter died in Infinity War. It'll be resolved.

Regarding the apparent Superman descrepancy, does Returns follow that closely on Superman II, or is there wiggle room for the other sequels? It seems like the goal for Earth-96 is to use SR as an opportunity to pull in the full legacy of Reeves' Superman through Routh, and while SR ignored the other Superman movies, it seems like the writers realize that it's an incomplete tribute to Reeves if you ignore two movies he was actually in, however poor they may be.

Either way, I'd just assume that the timeline/continuity of Earth-96 is looser than other Earths. If anything I could see shifting Returns back to the 90s or 80s since 96 Clark seems older than Routh's Palmer.

Regarding Smallville, is it possible there's some time displacement going on? This version of Clark fits Welling's actual age better; he was always playing a character several years younger than he actually was. Could it be 2024 on Earth-167 instead of 2019?
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Re: Earth 9, I seriously doubt they're going to end without restoring at least some of the multiverse. It's cool that DC and WB are allowing all these crossovers, but it's not like a special event on the CW is going to dictate the existence of past or future franchises. (And it would be silly for the Arrowverse to write out future crossovers anyway.) Worrying about the timeline being broken now is like worrying about how Spider-Man Far From Home can exist if Peter died in Infinity War. It'll be resolved.

Regarding the apparent Superman descrepancy, does Returns follow that closely on Superman II, or is there wiggle room for the other sequels? It seems like the goal for Earth-96 is to use SR as an opportunity to pull in the full legacy of Reeves' Superman through Routh, and while SR ignored the other Superman movies, it seems like the writers realize that it's an incomplete tribute to Reeves if you ignore two movies he was actually in, however poor they may be.

Either way, I'd just assume that the timeline/continuity of Earth-96 is looser than other Earths. If anything I could see shifting Returns back to the 90s or 80s since 96 Clark seems older than Routh's Palmer.

Regarding Smallville, is it possible there's some time displacement going on? This version of Clark fits Welling's actual age better; he was always playing a character several years younger than he actually was. Could it be 2024 on Earth-167 instead of 2019?
Well, Martha Kent is alive in Superman Returns but dead in Superman III. It's possible Supergirl can fit during Superman's 5 year absence, but Superman III-IV is more complicated. I heard someone use something called hypertime to explain it.
It's not a perfect explanation, but it'll do.

On a timeline, pahaps:
1977 - Superman: The Movie: Special Edition
1979 - Superman II
1980 - Superman III
1983 - Supergirl
1985 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
1990 - Superman Returns

Or:
1977 - Superman: The Movie: Special Edition
1979 - Superman II
1980 - Supergirl
1985 - Superman Returns
1986 - Superman III
1987 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace

On Smallville, pahaps. Everything seems to mostly be in modern day, though not all necessarily has to be, such as Earth-99. They did go to the future when they went to Earth-16 though, so would they not have to go into the future within Earth-167?
 

Rman

Member
I think Earth-96's Superman's reference to Superman 3 was just an Easter egg. Not confirmation that he had been through the exact events of Superman 3 and 4. Given that Superman Returns was made to retcon 3&4, I'd keep them out.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
I think Earth-96's Superman's reference to Superman 3 was just an Easter egg. Not confirmation that he had been through the exact events of Superman 3 and 4. Given that Superman Returns was made to retcon 3&4, I'd keep them out.
Yeah, I'll wait till the crossover is over I think.
 

TalonCard

Well-Known Member
Well, Martha Kent is alive in Superman Returns but dead in Superman III. It's possible Supergirl can fit during Superman's 5 year absence, but Superman III-IV is more complicated. I heard someone use something called hypertime to explain it.
It's not a perfect explanation, but it'll do.

Or:
1977 - Superman: The Movie: Special Edition
1979 - Superman II
1980 - Supergirl
1985 - Superman Returns
1986 - Superman III
1987 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
I think something like that works pretty well, considering the Martha situation. Kind of like how in the Star Trek universe we have the 1965 Cage Pike, Spock, and Enterprise, which then appear as the fancy 2019 Discovery Pike, Spock, and Enterprise, and go back to being represented as the 1960s versions later in the timeline.

So I recall someone mentioning that Lucifer's stock footage had a Supergirl billboard in it somewhere during a previous season. Well, they continued that tradition tonight, because the establishing shot they used for Earth-666 had a Watchman billboard in it! So even Watchmen has at least some representation in Crisis--any bets on if we'll see non-fictional representation before the Crisis is over?

Another great but small thing: Constantine explicitly says that the Jim Corrigan appearing here isn't the one he knows. That's a nice piece of continuity with the NBC series; the part was so small that they didn't have to acknowledge the recast but they did anyway. This should put any doubts about whether or not this Constantine is the NBC version to rest. Although given that they also establish that he has travelled to parellel Earths before, I suppose it's possible to retcon his series onto a different Earth, but that doesn't seem likely.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
I think something like that works pretty well, considering the Martha situation. Kind of like how in the Star Trek universe we have the 1965 Cage Pike, Spock, and Enterprise, which then appear as the fancy 2019 Discovery Pike, Spock, and Enterprise, and go back to being represented as the 1960s versions later in the timeline.

So I recall someone mentioning that Lucifer's stock footage had a Supergirl billboard in it somewhere during a previous season. Well, they continued that tradition tonight, because the establishing shot they used for Earth-666 had a Watchman billboard in it! So even Watchmen has at least some representation in Crisis--any bets on if we'll see non-fictional representation before the Crisis is over?

Another great but small thing: Constantine explicitly says that the Jim Corrigan appearing here isn't the one he knows. That's a nice piece of continuity with the NBC series; the part was so small that they didn't have to acknowledge the recast but they did anyway. This should put any doubts about whether or not this Constantine is the NBC version to rest. Although given that they also establish that he has travelled to parellel Earths before, I suppose it's possible to retcon his series onto a different Earth, but that doesn't seem likely.
If I were to fit the Superman films together, I think:
1977 - Superman: The Movie: Special Edition
1977 - Superman II
1982 - Superman Returns
1983 - Superman III
1984 - Supergirl
1987 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace

Obviously Jason isn't referenced nor the events of Superman Returns and Superman Returns is set in a modern day setting, but if they're the same universe, this is the only way it can work. The only problem is that he goes back to his original suit. There is probably more, but nothing is as definite as Martha Kent being dead.

It's possible that Supergirl takes place during those years Superman was looking for Krypton survivors, but a poster for a movie called The World According to Garp, which came out in 1982, meaning it's an unrelated old-world mission. Superman III suggests it's in 1980, with Clark having a School 15 year anniversary for a class of 1965, though another date places it in 1983, which is what the assumption has to be to fit it in the same continuity as Superman Returns. The technology is the most annoying part, but what can you do?

I'm definitely keeping Superman III, Supergirl and Superman IV: The Quest for Peace separate for now.

Ah, what am I saying, maybe the Paragon of Truth lied about his Mother being dead.
 
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TalonCard

Well-Known Member
Different Earth, different rules. On HR Wells's Earth Voyager is the only Star Trek show, so I wouldn't be too quick to apply real-world events to an alternate Earth.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Different Earth, different rules. On HR Wells's Earth Voyager is the only Star Trek show, so I wouldn't be too quick to apply real-world events to an alternate Earth.
Are you referring to Supergirl? Of cause, you can ignore certain information for actual dates, but it's still useful. For example, if the only information providing a date was that something is 1 year after WW2, it's most likely going to be 1946. Supergirl wasn't intended to reference Superman Returns, but if Marc Guggenheim says so, that is what the film was referring to. Unfortunately, Marc hasn't answered any question on Earth-96 so we're left in the dark on continuity. He's a busy guy...

Apparently Lucifer's appearance is before the show. Guess they didn't go to him in 2019 in fear of him being distracted by Detective Deck... Detective work.
 
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Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Is the Catwoman movie canon on Earth 89?
I'm thinking about that right now. Maybe I'll try asking Marc Guggenheim. Probably no response, but it's worth a shot. After I'm done with The Green Hornet, I'll watch the film for clues as to where it fits in.

It's probably canon, since that photo is mean't to insinuate that Selena Kyle is a previous Catwoman. I guess it's up to the viewer.
 
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Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Also is it Superman II or Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut?
I believe it's Superman II. Superman Returns: Prequel suggests this, and Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut came out after Superman Returns. I prefer The Richard Donner Cut dispite that ending, but it is what it is.
 

Pro Bot

Well-Known Member
Crisis on Infinite Earths: Giant #1 connects a version of the N52 and the Superman short films from the 40s. That adds 17 cartoons shorts to the list.
 

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